Judge in Apple v. Epic Case Sides With Apple on Fortnite and Epic on Unreal Engine [Updated]

[Ethosik]

If all this is key then why are Epic ALSO sueing Google for the same thing?

People don't realize this issue. Epic tried to have Fortnite outside the Google Play Store. Nobody side loads, therefore Epic was forced to add Fortnite back to the Play Store. What Epic actually wants, is to have the Epic Game Store provided by Apple's App Store - to prevent the side loading issue. This is the issue. I believe even the initial email from Tim to Apple even stated this that Epic wants to have their store available as a download from the Apple App Store.

Edit: From the emails.

A competing Epic Games Store app available through the iOS App Store and through direct installationthat has equal access to underlying operating system features for software installation and update asthe iOS App Store itself has, including the ability to install and update software as seamlessly as the iOSApp Store experience

 

[btrach144]

Makes you wonder if epic should have just simply sued Apple and avoided all the theatrics to begin with. It’s a distraction from their main point.

 

[Silent girl]

The way I see it is yes during the pandemic that is going on fortnite is a valuable game that people do use to talk to their friends that they cannot see. But at the same time I do understand my apple was angry and why they're doing what they're doing. But at the same time like Apple is a really wealthy company and all this is showing me and that I am perfectly fine owning my Android because here's the thing Google Play to kick it out of there app store 2 but you can still download it through epicgames itself onto your phone and onto Android devices that's one thing that I don't like about Apple products is you have to either get it through their store or you won't get it on certain things and send me if each side is really wanting to be about the customers than what they need to do is Apple needs to make it where they can still download it onto their phone without using their app store so then people that have a iPad or whatever can still download fortnite but fortnite won't be in there app store which won't be going against their code and everybody it's a win-win but that would be way easier than going through a trial because I mean it's 2020 compromising is not a thing

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So the judge will give into the toddler's tantrum in regards to Unreal Engine. wow.

No, the judge didn’t suggest that based on this article. The just indicated that Apple could be overreaching by impacting another legal entity; thus another contract.

I think the media has been very irresponsible by not reporting this correctly. If EPIC is using different legal entities then it seems to me as well that Apple is overreaching.Good though that the squggestion of irreparable harm is deemed one of their own making. And that a return to status quo can undo that.

 

[Malouff]

Most recently I have purchased a $1,000 iPad Pro and a $1,200 iPhone. I find it incredulous that I have such restrictions on what I can install on these devices, having spent so much money on them.

Apple has always had these restrictions in place and you should have been aware of them before buying your devices.

If you wanted more freedom maybe you should have did a little more research before your purchases.

I guess your choices were Android or Amazon (Android fork) on tablets and just Android for your phone.

Before you buy a Apple PC you might want to consider Linux if you want something very open to choices.

It has a lot of Freedom but not everything works right out of the box like with Windows and IOS.

However, Epic doesn't support Fortnight on Linux or the Epic Games Store yet.

You have to jump through hoops to get it on their made possible by 3rd parties.

Epic isn't quite about consumer choice regardless of platform yet.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The saga continues ... I'll bet the Judge makes a Decision soon, within weeks.

Yeah, it’s fairly open and shut. There aren’t a lot of gray areas when you start by breaking a contract.

Dude, we are talking about what we all saw the judge say and do.

The only folks that didn’t expect this going this way are folks that just hate Apple for some reason and want to see them taken down. Apple WILL be taken down one day, by better technology that’s more compelling, priced right and able to grasp the consumer imagination. Microsoft wasn’t taken down by “stunts” and Apple won’t be either.

Come to think of it, do folks REALLY want to see the mobile computing world settle on Apple technology? If it becomes possible to install multiple app stores and it REALLY becomes a generic product, the 40 something percent US marketshare it has now will explode... growth will likely be seen all over the world, as well.

Instead, if US marketshare is really the main concern, they should just limit the number of phones sold in the US. 5 million a year should do it. Keep it that way for 5 years and surely competition will be able to spring up in the hole left by far fewer iPhone sales.

 

[mm1250]

If all this is key then why are Epic ALSO sueing Google for the same thing?

Fortinet is still able to distrubte software through Andriod just not through Google play store. For Apple they are unable to distrubute at all. It’s quite different cases.

 

[Ethosik]

Fortinet is still able to distrubte software through Andriod just not through Google play store. For Apple they are unable to distrubute at all. It’s quite different cases.

That is not the goal, as mentioned in my previous post. And Epic is proof users on Android do not side-load as they had to bring Fortnite back to the Google Play Store due to low number of installs from side-loading.

 

[insomniac86]

How do people sit in jail for years waiting for a trial but a video game stunt gets in front of a judge immediately?

Kalief Browder Learned How to Commit Suicide on Rikers

Before Browder ever attempted to take his own life, he saw another inmate in the jail try to end his.

www.newyorker.com

Billions of dollars to be made Vs. People who aren't worth anything to the system.

 

[insomniac86]

You might consider that a joke, but EPIC did successful show that game is also a social interaction medium with events, communicating, meetings, and the pandemic needs helped sell that.

Well at least we all now know that **** talking about an 11 year olds Momma is a healthy form of social communication.

 

[Wanted797]

Well this seems inline to one of
My previous comments about how Apple could block their licence when they’ve already blocked the game.

I’m thinking that in the future this case will be an actual example of an “Epic Fail”.

 

[Rogifan]

well......no one is FORCING you to be on Apple's App Store....

They are if you wants to develop for iOS. Unless you‘re suggesting being on iOS is no big deal.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I agree with the judge.

Both sides will obviously argue for whatever helps them gain the most leverage in the situation. The judge seems to understand that and seems to have a fair grasp on the issues at hand. It makes sense that Epic shouldn't be allowed to remain on the App Store while breaching terms they voluntarily agreed to, but that if Apple had separate agreements, they shouldn't be able to transfer these problems to something separate.

 

[cmaier]

I agree with the judge.

Both sides will obviously argue for whatever helps them gain the most leverage in the situation. The judge seems to understand that and seems to have a fair grasp on the issues at hand. It makes sense that Epic shouldn't be allowed to remain on the App Store while breaching terms they voluntarily agreed to, but that if Apple had separate agreements, they shouldn't be able to transfer these problems to something separate.

The problem is that if the reason that it is inappropriate to cancel the agreement with the second company is that it is an independent company, then that second, independent company needs to come to court and ask for relief. It makes no sense for Epic to say “that’s another company and we demand the court do something to help that other company which we have nothing to do with.”

Either they control that company or they don’t. If they do, then the other company should suffer the same fate as the first. If not, then Epic has no standing to ask for the court to do anything about it.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple appears to make a distinction between digital content you consume on your device (ie: ebooks, movies) and physical goods that you summon via an app on your phone (eg: ride sharing, food delivery, online shopping).

I guess we could argue whether such a distinction even makes sense, but at least there appears to be a guideline that Apple seems to be adhering to consistently.

They also make a distinction whereby certain digital goods don’t apply but they can’t be treated like physical goods. Hence why you can buy lots of things in the Amazon app. But you can’t buy anything in the Kindle app. If Apple has decided it’s in their best interest not to demand a cut of Kindle book sales then why don’t they let people buy those books in-app using their Amazon account like people do when buying physical goods in the Amazon app?

 

[DummyFool]

well......no one is FORCING you to be on Apple's App Store....

Yes. Apple does, Even if Epic do not wish to resubmit a new version of Fortnite, Apple is forcing them.

 

[AnonUnknown17]

Look the point is Apple and Google have been running monopolies on the phone industry for a long time. Samsung and Amazon barely even have a stake in that game. Apple doing a knee jerk reaction in threatening the removal of unreal and their dev tools was their "oh sht we do kinda have a monopoly here" reaction. Tbh not ALL of the industry is charging 30% cut. In fact Epic has shown that companies dont need to be taking a 30% cut to be successful. Sure most of all industry companies are taking 30%, but its ridiculous. Even for people who make free mobile games and sometimes charge as little as $1.99 for ad unlock. So they charge 2 bucks and end up with $1.40 giving the store 0.60 per sale. Well if they get a million bucks worth of sales the "store" gets 30% of that. That ends up being $300k out of that milion bucks. Well if you look at a game like Fortnite or a company like Epic they do something like 30million in sales these stores take 10mill put of that. Yet, if you order food, a scarf, a table, or even furniture they take in the range of 0-10% max of that sale. Because its a physical object it deserves to be store taxed lightly, if at all, but a digital product deserves to be store taxed to hell? Its not to upkeep the products and keep them running fine. Its not to upkeep the "advanced servers and related fees" bull they're just greedy. Its just like how Sony and Nintendo went down the multiplayer rabbit hole that Microsoft did, and charging for multiplayer to "cover the vost of the advanced servers." Sure the millions of dollar you're getting is JUST going to that cost. They're both the same thing. Epic has proven with its Epic Games Store 10-15% store tax works just fine to keep a company profitable. This whole 30% thing is so old school reminiscent of when things were starting out. Nowadays these companies just love the big fat paycheck and will fight to keep it because its going to "hurt" the company. Bull if anything it will bring in more devs into creating mobile apps. Also, the 30% cut is not ensuring only high quality games get on the store. There are some crappy crappy games on the App store as well as Play Store, and some of those grab ad revenue only. Does Apple or Google take 30% of each of those too? Kinda hard to split change by 30% isnt it? Yet, those games are allowed to stay on the store. Even the ones that are outright scams. At the end of the day Epic called out the entire industry on its sht and the industry doesn't like it cuz they want to get richer and richer. It has nothing to do about the in game purchasing. It has everything to do with Apple flexing its muscles saying, "Look you give us money and revert your ways, or we will no longer do business with you." Well Apple I'm sorry hate to break it to you, but that would massively hurt you too you idiots. Ok I get banning the game because of a ToS violation, but you also have super inconsistent ToS for things. Either make everything cut at 30% or change the cut of games down to everything else. Its so stupid because its all over some stupid fckn money. Big fckn deal when u die it can't go with you. So Apple either bite the bullet and lower the game percentages or everything else bite the bullet and pay the fckn 30%. Its not that dam hard.

 

[lec0rsaire]

well......no one is FORCING you to be on Apple's App Store....

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? Unlike macOS Apple has iOS locked down. There is no other option!

If Epic could release their own store on iOS to sell their own software there wouldn’t be a problem.

A decade ago this monopoly could’ve been overlooked since Apple created the platform and mobile apps weren’t as essential to our daily lives. Today with a billion iPhones in circulation it’s unjustifiable.

 

[cmaier]

Yes. Apple does, Even if Epic do not wish to resubmit a new version of Fortnite, Apple is forcing them.

No they are not. Epic is free to have NOTHING in the App Store.

 

[PickUrPoison]

You might consider that a joke, but EPIC did successful show that game is also a social interaction medium with events, communicating, meetings, and the pandemic needs helped sell that.

Sounds like Epic should revert their changes then to keep pandemic-essential games playable.

 

[steveklein]

How do people sit in jail for years waiting for a trial …

Because they almost always wave their sixth amendment right to a speedy trial.

Defendants who don’t wave their right are usually tried within a matter of months, and virtually always within a year, lest the prosecution risk dismissal for violation of this right.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[AnonUnknown17]

Give it up Epic!

its game over for you. Apple won.

They did not win. This doesn't say Apple won or Epic lost. The truth is Epicis has shown with its own store you dont need 30% to be successful. This was an attack on the entire digital gaming industry as a whole. They went after Apple cuz they are a true tech giant who really monopolizes their App store and devices because they will not let any other store or outside source onto their devices.

 

[grahamwright1]

The way I see it is yes during the pandemic that is going on fortnite is a valuable game that people do use to talk to their friends that they cannot see. But at the same time I do understand my apple was angry and why they're doing what they're doing. But at the same time like Apple is a really wealthy company and all this is showing me and that I am perfectly fine owning my Android because here's the thing Google Play to kick it out of there app store 2 but you can still download it through epicgames itself onto your phone and onto Android devices that's one thing that I don't like about Apple products is you have to either get it through their store or you won't get it on certain things and send me if each side is really wanting to be about the customers than what they need to do is Apple needs to make it where they can still download it onto their phone without using their app store so then people that have a iPad or whatever can still download fortnite but fortnite won't be in there app store which won't be going against their code and everybody it's a win-win but that would be way easier than going through a trial because I mean it's 2020 compromising is not a thing

You could probably make your case a lot more effectively if you just used some basic punctuation. My brain can't make sense of your single long stream of rambling, so you probably are not getting your point clearly defined.

 

[AnonUnknown17]

Because they almost always wave their sixth amendment right to a speedy trial.

Defendants who don’t wave their right are usually tried within a matter of months, and virtually always within a year, lest the prosecution risk dismissal for violation of this right.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

Thank you! Because tbh there are also some people, depending on the crime, lose their constitutional rights. Thus waiving their 6th amendment right as well. So yeah they lose that right to a speedy trial. Most the time cuz the evidence is too firm for them to get away with it.

 

[cmaier]

Thank you! Because tbh there are also some people, depending on the crime, lose their constitutional rights. Thus waiving their 6th amendment right as well. So yeah they lose that right to a speedy trial. Most the time cuz the evidence is too firm for them to get away with it.

No, nobody loses their constitutional rights.