Judge in Upcoming Epic v. Apple Trial to Limit In-Person Attendees

[GeoStructural]

So should iOS be forced to open up and be like every other platform?

Yes.

And you don’t have to get your apps from that sketchy guy in the dark corner of the Internet. You can still get it from the App Store.

 

[dannyyankou]

Breaking: Courtroom following public safety measures like most other businesses and organizations.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Yes.

And you don’t have to get your apps from that sketchy guy in the dark corner of the Internet. You can still get it from the App Store.

Correct... I won't get apps from the dark corner from the internet.

But if such a way was forced into existence... there will be some people who will get apps from those shady stores and have their phones totally compromised by malware.

You know there are hackers waiting to get their unsigned code onto iPhones.

 

[Abazigal]

I would not call Ping, Apple TV plus, HomePod, News, Fitness and Siri particularly “great” products or services.

It’s more about how they all come together.

I wasn’t around during the ping days, so no comment on that.

I am still on the TV+ free trial (well, I am on Apple One, but Apple also credits me the money for it every month, so it’s technically still free), and while I don’t really open the app that much, there are the occasional gems. I quite enjoyed Palmer and Wolfwalkers.

I also like that the TV app integrates the Disney+ app (something I wish more companies would do, but I understand why this is not in their vested interests to do so).

I don’t have the HomePod, news or fitness+ in my area, but I think they are great examples of how Apple is able to integrate hardware and software together. I certainly wouldn’t mind paying for them. I already have an Apple Watch, so what’s a few extra dollars a month for workout videos with great production quality and integrated feedback from my watch?

Same goes for Siri. Thanks for a product like the Apple Watch, Apple is able to put siri on the wrists of tens of millions of iphone users, and integrate it with services like Apple Music and iMessage. Is Apple Music lower quality or more expensive? I literally don't care. I just want to be able to pull up a song on my watch and stream it to my airpods no matter where I am. That's it. I'll pay more for it. 

This is what Apple does best, and that’s why I am end-to-end Apple gear. Apple rarely beats competitors on the bullet list, but when it comes to 'I can get this huge video file from my iPhone to my Macbook in seconds via airdrop', they're unbeatable. They play the system integration game better than anyone else, and if it costs a few bucks more, and the end result is that I get a better experience compared to competing products and services.

 

[grahamwright1]

If there's another app store or a way to install apps outside of Apple's app store, it doesn't mean you have to get the app through them. Don't feel comfortable getting an app from the developer or another app store? Then get it directly from Apple.

Clearly you don't like having options and competition.

I don't think you don't have any idea the number of naive users that will be trying load the latest game they heard about, or clicking some random link they received to "load the latest xxx onto your iPhone". At which point we start hearing a groundswell of complaints about stolen account information, unknown background activity as your contacts are uploaded, etc.

Once you make it totally painless and easy the non-computer literate users are the one's who start to suffer, which results in a rising number general complaints about the iOS experience, a decrease in user satisfaction, and probably a reduction in the number of app developers working to create content for this platform. Of course you are happy as you can now load whatever content you want onto your iOS device, but many hundred or thousands of other users will not!

There's no monopoly - if you want complete control over your device, you purchase an Android device and either live with any malicious app's you load, or spend a lot of time and resources trying to verify the integrity of the apps you load. If that sounds like too much risk or work, buy an iOS device and focus on actually using your device. Either way, make your choice and then get on with using your device. Any technically literate person knows that Apple restricts what can be installed onto their devices, so don't buy an iOS device then start whining that you can't side load anything you want.

Everyone wins with two major choices - no anti-trust situation here.....

 

[msp3]

>imagine making the effort to attend a ******** where one group of millionaires' stooges face off an against another millionaire's stooges pretending any of it makes any difference for you

 

[grahamwright1]

Correct... I won't get apps from the dark corner from the internet.

But if such a way was forced into existence... there will be some people who will get apps from those shady stores and have their phones totally compromised by malware.

You know there are hackers waiting to get their unsigned code onto iPhones.

I think you are underestimating the number of people who will be 'guided' to questionable URL's to load content, it will be large numbers of people. It's also a death blow to the positive way most non-technical people perceive the iOS experience, and once that's lost Apple don't get it back again.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I hope Scott rocks up and makes heavy use of these GIFs


View attachment 1749745

LOL ... ☠️

Go to FortniteRumors.com with that opinion. EPIC is lucky to even have the option to sell their game on the App Store. Apple can do what they want, they are a private company. They can ban Parler, they can charge 80% commission for all I care. Nobody makes EPIC sell an app. Follow the rules or get lost.

Scotty said Apple is a publicly traded company, they’re not private.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Yes it is.

Using an argument that 'we are protecting you' for ultra restrictive practices when in reality Apple often fail to identify scams on the App Store is highly disinegnuous.

The App store rules exist largely to further Apple financial interests not to protect iOS users from harm.

During this court case we’ll see how this theory will fall apart and compare with Epic’s webstore front and services.

 

[SurferPup]

I wish for an epic fail court ruling for Epic Games with them having to cover Apple's costs too. This litigation is stifling innovation by distracting the CEO and senior Apple staff running their enterprise. Epic could offer their games for less in the App Store to equal the cost of a purchase made outside of the Apple ecosystem. If an entity offers an easy, desirable conduit to connect producers with their target customers and both parties are happy to utilise the benefits of the service then it is fair for that entity to determine how and what it requests for it's development and maintenance of the conduit. If either party believes it is not receiving fair value then it has the right to create a method to connect to the other however not at the blatant circumvention of the host on the host's platform. I possess no Epic Games products and adverse to purchasing from them.

 

[ian87w]

What are the chances Apple loses this case? Asking for a friend.

Depends who has better influences to the people in the court, internally or externally. Both have money to spare, so it boils down who are willing to stoop the lower by the ways of side dealings.

 

[code-m]

Yep, this is how it’s going to play out, whichever side wins there will be an appeal. Forget part one of this story wait for the conclusion instead.

Whatever the decision is, it will be appealed. And appealed. And appealed further. This will never end.

My Fortnite playing has though. Epic keeps filling my inbox with news about the new seasons I can't enjoy because I'm on iPad.

 

[code-m]

Depends who has better influences to the people in the court, internally or externally. Both have money to spare, so it boils down who are willing to stoop the lower by the ways of side dealings.

I suspect Apple may win as it’s a breech of contract and Epic was being sneaky about its intent. I suspect Epic will appeal and both will come to some deal in the end where Epic will offer its titles in the AppStore and some exclusives for some sweetheart deal similar to Amazon and others.

It’s just a show, no point getting wrapped up in the nonsense.

 

[ian87w]

So should iOS be forced to open up and be like every other platform?

Or should they be allowed to do their own thing?

Well, if iOS is forced to open up, it will be a precedent for other platforms involving transactions, especially game consoles. It can also be argued to the app level. Let’s say I want to buy an in-app purchase. Then I should be allowed to buy it outside the developer’s confines with whoever I want to. The developer should allow other people to sell their in-app items without their involvements. The developer shouldn’t hoard all the money for themselves, right?

 

[code-m]

In principle I don’t care if the Judge orders Apple to allow side loading. What concerns me is that apps that can be side loaded may be cheaper than if purchased in the App Store. That could kill the App Store and I definitely don’t want that. I, for one, want the option of purchasing apps that have been curated and checked by Apple.

To my understanding and communicating with a few developers, software pricing and sales cannot differ between the AppStore and outside market.

I may have been misinformed by these developers but it was several that mentioned it to me so I have no reason to question it validity.

 

[code-m]

Depends who has better influences to the people in the court, internally or externally. Both have money to spare, so it boils down who are willing to stoop the lower by the ways of side dealings.

It’s a breech of contract case, it’s not some criminal case with plea bargains involved. Apple can discuss whatever it wants internally and no one is forcing any software or game developer to agree and sign that contract. There are other methods to use as web apps that can and I believe have been utilized.

This case should have been tossed out and is only receiving traction due to anti-trust proceedings. If Epic felt there was injustice it should have terminated its contract and voluntarily pulled its game titles off the platform and used a web app to service its users, instead it decided to do a sneaky things and then decided to sue. Had Apple barred the web app then it would have been grounds for a lawsuit, but this is not what happened.

 

[Solomani]

The restrictions, of course, make sense. It will be interesting to see if this trial rises to the level of the OJ Simpson trial in terms of hubris... "the game company that took out Apple."

If the Apps don't fit you must acquit!

 

[countryside]

Scotty said Apple is a publicly traded company, they’re not private.

Oh brother, publicly traded companies are still private property and the shares are held by private citizens. A company, publicly traded or not, has a right to refuse service to those who do not abide by their terms of service/contract. Being a publicly-traded company does not mean EPIC is entitled to sell on the App Store. How utterly uninformed.

 

[Jony Ive and Co.]

That OS already exists, its called Android.

And it (Android) is way trashier

 

[DeepIn2U]

Oh brother, publicly traded companies are still private property and the shares are held by private citizens. A company, publicly traded or not, has a right to refuse service to those who do not abide by their terms of service/contract. Being a publicly-traded company does not mean EPIC is entitled to sell on the App Store. How utterly uninformed.

So yes, Apple is a publicly traded company and follows the laws associated as such and regardless of internal hopes, they succumb to their shareholders.

I never stated any preference for EPIC so I have no idea where you’re coming from. Never stated EPIC is entitled to sell on the App Store bit hey keep coming with assumptions.

 

[steve09090]

I would not call Ping, Apple TV plus, HomePod, News, Fitness and Siri particularly “great” products or services.

Because you've used all of them? AppleTV+ has the highest percentage of original content than any other service.
Homepod is far far better in my home than the Amazon Echo. No comparison on sound or function.
Fitness Plus has really encouraged me to exercise consistently (everyday). How is that not a great service to use?
Siri... well, Siri. Can’t argue with that.

 

[-DMN-]

...and your opinion differs from many of us who want to retain the current App Store where we can be pretty sure we aren't downloading malware. Have you tracked the sheer number of Android app's that have been found forwarding user information from Android devices to corporate and individual websites?

After 40 years using everything from mainframes, through mini's, micro's, Windows, and Mac systems, I truly appreciate the approach and care that Apple take with iOS. Clearly you don't, so why not just switch over to one of the many Android devices readily available?

TikTok sends data back to China by copying your clipboard info and many other apps track your every move (Facebook) to sell to advertisers. So malware is already rampant on iOS.

 

[MikeyUnix]

All manufacturers should get their deserved fairness and dignity to sell their products in all supermarket and department stores without a fee! Go GeoStructural, the whole world thank you for fighting that fight as well!

Were is not for the fact that TenCent are a Chinese company and Epic Games is 40% owned by them, where in China counterfeiting goods is widespread, including software, and the words intellectual copyright or patent mean little, then you could perhaps have sympathy.

When any good brand goes to China, they always seeks to find a way to chip away at that brand, either by restriction or mysterious disappearances of personnel. Apple and other companies included Tesla and others who do business eventually find that out, as that size of market exerts massive pressure to fit in.

Every game developer deserves fair treatment, every inventor etc. etc., deserves fair treatment but that also includes Apple, Microsoft, Google. etc. etc. etc.

 

[hans1972]

Yes.

And you don’t have to get your apps from that sketchy guy in the dark corner of the Internet. You can still get it from the App Store.

Wouldn't it be up to the developer to be on the App Store?

What would stop it being tens of application stores on iOS and many of them having exclusives?

On the Android side, there is probably several thousands application stores. In China they recommend to at least publish your app on 15 stores.

Here are the list of the 30 biggest application store for China:

The AppInChina App Store Index | The Market

The AppInChina App Store Index is the market-leading index of China’s largest Android app stores. We update our index on a quarterly basis using the most accurate data sources available.

www.appinchina.co

I don't want such fragmentation.

 

[hans1972]

Go Epic! Thanks for fighting the fight, for the fairness and dignity of all developers big and small, and for an OS that allows installing everything we want, as it should be.

They are also suing Google which allows what you say. It seems allowing anything to be installed is not enough.