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Yes sam that was what I thought, but should we continue to discuss this this misunderstanding or the matter of fact?

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I understand... Let's dedicate a completely new thread, and debate this misunderstanding shall we? No that would be silly.

The original statement: "not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself."

I argued that for bounce back that's false. Please explain to me what is inaccurate about my statement.
 
The original statement: "not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself."

I argued that for bounce back that's false. Please explain to me what is inaccurate about my statement.

The fact that the expert witness Balakrishnan said:

When user gets to the end of an image when manipulating the screen they stop, and the user doesn’t know if they have reached the end of the image or if there is a problem with the computers. The other problem it solves i the ‘desert fog’ problem…. with the user scrolling off an image and the user can’t tell how to get back to the image. The so-called 381 patent is focused on solving these two problems. It does so by not allowing the photograph to go off the screen, solving the ‘desert fog,’ problem; it solves the ‘frozen screen’ problem by allowing a user to move just a bit past the edge of the document and then ‘bounces back,’ … giving the illusion of a ‘very lively’ system. The two problems were recognized in the field, papers were published about them, and no one had solved the problem before Apple did, with its patent.

From Forbes live coverage.
 
The original statement: "not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself."

I argued that for bounce back that's false. Please explain to me what is inaccurate about my statement.

You are correct in your argument, but your examples to support it were bad. :)

The patent does require "a device with a touch screen display", so your wacom tablet or laptop trackpad examples are not relevant, but a laptop or desktop monitor may still be covered. :)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=n7...a=X&ei=xcI_UPvwDIOk8QSwzYDYAQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA
 
The fact that the expert witness Balakrishnan said:

From Forbes live coverage.

Sorry - were we talking about the case or about someone's comment in here. I was talking about someone's comment in here that stated what I already quoted. Please get on the "same page" so to speak.

You are correct in your argument, but your examples to support it were bad. :)

The patent does require "a device with a touch screen display", so your wacom tablet or laptop trackpad examples are not relevant, but a laptop or desktop monitor may still be covered. :)

http://www.google.com/patents?id=n7...a=X&ei=xcI_UPvwDIOk8QSwzYDYAQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA

Not really. Again - I wasn't responding to what the patent says. I was responding the the poster who was trying to assert that bounce back, for example could ONLY exist on a mobile platform. They could exist.
 
Not really. Again - I wasn't responding to what the patent says. I was responding the the poster who was trying to assert that bounce back, for example could ONLY exist on a mobile platform. They could exist.

I apologize for once again not reading your mind. I have that ability, and I'm not sure why I keep forgetting to use it. :D :p
 
I apologize for once again not reading your mind. I have that ability, and I'm not sure why I keep forgetting to use it. :D :p

You're exhausting. Or you just overthink too much. You know the expression - - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?

I quoted the OP " Originally Posted by aristotle With a pinch to zoom or the bounce back patent, not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself."

Ahh. I apologize - I think I see the confusion now. It's in his wording. I was being sincere however. The fact is - bounce back UI interaction is NOT specific to a mobile device. And doesn't require a CAPACITIVE touch screen to execute it. That might be Apple's patent specificity.
 
Ahh. I apologize - I think I see the confusion now. It's in his wording. I was being sincere however. The fact is - bounce back UI interaction is NOT specific to a mobile device. And doesn't require a CAPACITIVE touch screen to execute it. That might be Apple's patent specificity.

Absolutely! I agreed with you in my original reply! :D
 
Here is the issue with Samsung's patent. It is essentially "building on giants" that came before. Taking an electronic photo is not unique to Samsung nor is emailing a photo. If the CPU is irrelevant then so is the platform or form factor.

Sure, present prior art and invalidate Samsung's patent. No problem doing that, it goes both ways. Heck, I'm a firm believer that software itself shouldn't be patented anyway.

The argument stands that the foreman's understanding of what constitutes prior art is completely lacking and as such, it's not just one particular patent that's affected, it's all of them. If he doesn't understand prior art for one patent, he obviously doesn't understand it for all of them, throwing quite the doubt on the whole verdict of patent validity, for both sides.

There is a lot of prior art with regard to a digital camera taking a photo, that photo being attached to an email on a desktop client and transmitted to the internet. You Samsung defenders cannot have it both ways. Samsung is describing a process which can be carried out on a desktop or laptop in addition to a phone and is a function of the email client which can be implemented on various types of devices and not just a phone.

Who are these Samsung defenders you believe want it both ways and where have they said such a thing ?

You need to stop with the wild conspiracy theories that some "bad bad Samsung defenders" are "squating your forum, bitching your dear old Apple". You're starting to sound a bit weird. It's actually scary that you actually believe there are such posters here.

With a pinch to zoom or the bounce back patent, not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself.

I don't see the words "Mobile device" or "capacitative" anywhere in this patent's claims :

http://www.google.com/patents/US7469381

Can you point towards them ? The patent is much broader than you're letting on. Seems to me Apple wants it to apply to anything with a touch screen, as long as it has memory, a processor and a touch screen display.

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You're exhausting. Or you just overthink too much. You know the expression - - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?

I quoted the OP " Originally Posted by aristotle With a pinch to zoom or the bounce back patent, not only is the UI interaction specific to a mobile device but it requires a capacitive touch screen to execute and the UI elements are described in the patent itself."

Ahh. I apologize - I think I see the confusion now. It's in his wording. I was being sincere however. The fact is - bounce back UI interaction is NOT specific to a mobile device. And doesn't require a CAPACITIVE touch screen to execute it. That might be Apple's patent specificity.

Anyway, your Wacom example wasn't quite out of touch. Last I checked, the Cintiq line-up are basically... *drumroll* touch screen displays.
 
Can you point towards them ? The patent is much broader than you're letting on. Seems to me Apple wants it to apply to anything with a touch screen, as long as it has memory, a processor and a touch screen display.

And that makes perfect sense, the type of display is a technical detail that is irrelevant to what is described (as long as the display is capable to support it of course).
 
And that makes perfect sense, the type of display is a technical detail that is irrelevant to what is described (as long as the display is capable to support it of course).

Yes it does, but aristotle keeps insisting the patent only covers mobile devices with capacitative touch screens. Doesn't seem like it to me. Seems like every computer out there with a touch screen display of some sort can't have bounce back because of this patent, so in essence, any bounce back on a computer with a touch screen that appeared before this filing would be prior art. And if Apple failed to list it as prior art in the patent and augment its function, the patent could very well be found invalid on grounds of that prior art.
 
 

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You don't need to teach someone how to run a business around selling, or even design and build electronics in order to educate them well enough about the particulars which relate to the case.
Yes you do need to teach them, otherwise they are not educated enough." You don't need to teach someone how to run a business around selling?"?
Are you kidding me? If you want your business to succed, you won't take someone from the street to run your business, I guess you will prefer business MBA graduate, no?


So, should we have expert murderers acting as the jury in a murder case? I'm really not sure where else your logic could be going. :confused:
Another illogical sentence, funny how you twist it....
No, we should not have murders, how about police officers?
How about judges who know, learn, and saw infinite cases of murders trials, and know the diffrent between facts, and emotion manipulations.
Know the law?


Ok, first we'll deal with a bit of basic ignorance on your part.
1) It was a jury of 9 people, not 12.
2) Of course the jury is going to consist of Americans, it was a trial in an American court, based on American laws.
3) The *judge* was of Korean descent. You've never seen me complain about that, because it has no bearing on the case.
Ok so since the jury from America this is not fair trial priod. And since the judge is just a puppet and can't decide anything in this system it doesn't matter where is her birth place.


That's why we have well educated judges overseeing the process. It's also why we don't have juries consisting of a single, *lone* individual. Our jury system is based on the (well proven) concept that different people will notice, and give differing importance to different details and connections. Having a group to discuss and debate those details and connections provides the best way to ensure that nothing gets glossed over. (Having the group stay reasonably small, as our jury system does, helps prevent committee-deadlock.)
as you saw in the you tube movie, while the jury consist of a bunch of people, there could be ( as in this case) someone that can talk out the other jury opinion, and act as small lawyer, twisting the facts and ideas to his side.
Not all jury is consist of educated high class people, and some fall to this talk.

So as said before sad system. And it can explain the many mistakes in court, and the infinite innocent people that sit in jail, just because they could not afford a good lawyer actor that can do a show for them, to trick the audience.
 
This jury made some serious mistakes, and the more the foreman talks about it, the more apparent those mistakes become - some that may very well invalidate the verdict.

I predict that this isn't going to be as bad for Samsung as it looks now. I also believe if Google decides to put the hammer down, Apple will be out of the smart phone market for good.
 
I predict that this isn't going to be as bad for Samsung as it looks now. I also believe if Google decides to put the hammer down, Apple will be out of the smart phone market for good.[/QUOTE]

You don't really believe that do you?, I doubt either company can knock the other one out the market.
 
Mac Mini, anyone?

Image


Just trying to boost the mood in this thread.

Do we agree Samsung copied Apple's Mac-mini concept and product design?

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This jury made some serious mistakes, and the more the foreman talks about it, the more apparent those mistakes become - some that may very well invalidate the verdict.

I predict that this isn't going to be as bad for Samsung as it looks now. I also believe if Google decides to put the hammer down, Apple will be out of the smart phone market for good.

If that happens so goes the innovation with it.

Wouldn't people rather have Samsung actually innovate instead of copying what Apple does?
 
If that happens so goes the innovation with it.

Wouldn't people rather have Samsung actually innovate instead of copying what Apple does?


If courts decide that Samsung infringes it means that Samsung didn't innovate and they copied.

If courts decide that Samsung doesn't infringe it means that Samsung innovate and they didn't copied, no?
 
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