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g30ffr3y

macrumors 6502a
Jul 18, 2002
676
0
buffalo ny
i for one am glad the original poster got a replacement and it
is a SHAME that apple employees gave him so much crap
about it...

i recently bought a 32" LCD tv and noticed the second day
that it had a dark pixel slighly northwest of the center of the
screen... i tried to "deal with it" for another day, but once my
girlfriend, who im sure all you elitist policy quoters could classify
as a "teacher sally or student jane" who wouldnt ever notice
it asked me straight off what is that dot in the middle of the
screen i boxed it up and marched it right back where it came
from...

the fact is that consumers demad quality when shelling out hard
earned cash... i suspect these days many not-so-tech-savy people
could pick out a blaring red dot in their screen... and to say that it
isnt a blaring red dot because 99.9% of the screen works is BULL*****!!!
the fact once again is that that one imperfection WILL bother a good
portion of people...

at any rate... maybe maticus or whatever his face is doesnt feel that
shelling out 1500.00 is a lot of investment... maybe some people on
this board dont have to save up for a new computer or an ipod and
dont care if its slightly imperfect... but im sure a good portion of us
do understand that a new computer is no light investment and when
push comes to shove im not going to spend my money on an obviously
flawed product...

congrats to the OP and apple customer relations for coming through
in the end...
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
g30ffr3y said:
the fact is that consumers demad quality when shelling out hard
earned cash... i suspect these days many not-so-tech-savy people
could pick out a blaring red dot in their screen... and to say that it
isnt a blaring red dot because 99.9% of the screen works is BULL*****!!!
the fact once again is that that one imperfection WILL bother a good
portion of people...
They GET quality. It's not 99.9% flawless, it's 99.9999995% perfect. 1,763,999 working pixels and one not-working pixel is a quality standard FAR above what customers expect for anything else, be it a car, house, camera, piece of furniture, or anything. One or two stuck pixels doesn't affect usability of anything. It doesn't cover any portion of the screen that would make something unreadable or invisible. It is the size of a speck of dust.

but im sure a good portion of us
do understand that a new computer is no light investment and when
push comes to shove im not going to spend my money on an obviously
flawed product...
It doesn't matter how much the damn thing costs, and it doesn't matter whether you had to save up for it or not. Just because something is out of your disposable spending range doesn't put it into a category of "more perfect than anything else," it just makes it more personally upsetting to the customer. A scratch on an Audi and a scratch on a Honda are really the same thing, but which is more upsetting? But that's our problem, not the manufacturer's. If you disagree, show me any $1500 computer that has a lower rate of stuck pixels. Otherwise, can the crap about the price.

Nothing is perfect, and computers are no exception. Getting this upset over one stuck pixel is completely and totally illogical. It is no different than a small scratch, or a bubble in a piece of glass, or a not-quite square joint in a tile floor. It doesn't make the product broken or even harder to use. I've had two LCDs with dead pixels, and I used them every day just like I've used my LCDs with no stuck pixels.
 

generik

macrumors 601
Aug 5, 2005
4,116
1
Minitrue
Jeez, I can't believe you guys are arguing so much and defending Apple.

I've never seen a dead pixel in any LCD monitors I've purchased, and guess why? I purchase high quality "pro" stuff from companies like Eizo and NEC. On the other hand who knows what Apple is doing.

If Apple refuses to fix the problem satisfactory just take a gas lighter to your iMac's power socket and ring them saying it caught fire (probably same way the other MBP guy got a new MBP, anyway I do not believe his cable melted due to any defect!)

Apple's computers are already 100% overpriced, so please don't give us that "every consumer will have to pay an additional $300 for a flawless computer".

It is ALREADY overpriced, all those extras have already been paid, it is just that Apple failed to keep up with their end of their bargain and thought they can get away with using cheap crap!
 

generik

macrumors 601
Aug 5, 2005
4,116
1
Minitrue
matticus008 said:
They GET quality. It's not 99.9% flawless, it's 99.9999995% perfect. 1,763,999 working pixels and one not-working pixel is a quality standard FAR above what customers expect for anything else, be it a car, house, camera, piece of furniture, or anything. One or two stuck pixels doesn't affect usability of anything. It doesn't cover any portion of the screen that would make something unreadable or invisible. It is the size of a speck of dust.

So... to get 1,763,999 pixels working correctly is it supposed to be a huge miracle?

Something akin to be the 2nd coming of Jesus?

Please, it is so bloody easy to make flawless LCDs nowadays. Guess what? In your everyday Core Duo processors there are 151.6 MILLION transistors, and every single one of them has to be absolutely flawless to ensure that you even have a real computer, and not one that will randomly spew "1+1=3" for no mysterious reason.

Is it interesting? No.

Is it hard? Probably, but they can do it, and it is to be expected.

Is it a miracle? Hell no.

So please stop trying to make out the feat of making 2 million perfect pixels to be such an engineering feat, because given the size of each pixel (read: HUGE) it is really not.
 

shrhaider

macrumors member
Jan 10, 2006
65
0
Seoul
matticus008 said:
Apple did sell the product they represented, and there's no fine print involved.

I guess I just don't think that Apple (or any other company selling LCDs) makes it very obvious to the consumer that they may be buying a new monitor/computer that statistically could very well have stuck pixels. I believe that is the primary reason people are having such strong reactions to this thread. It is not common sense, as you say, to know that during the manufacturing of LCDs, it is too costly to guarantee this will not happen. I think most people would disagree with you there.

In this respect, a consumer who buys one of these LCDs will feel that it is faulty. I think these "stuck pixel policies" simply ought to be made known to the consumer. But of course no company is going to post a notice in their display area with that kind of information. Because it would put people off the purchase.
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,055
6
Yahooville S.C.
generik said:
Jeez, I can't believe you guys are arguing so much and defending Apple.

I've never seen a dead pixel in any LCD monitors I've purchased, and guess why? I purchase high quality "pro" stuff from companies like Eizo and NEC. On the other hand who knows what Apple is doing.

If Apple refuses to fix the problem satisfactory just take a gas lighter to your iMac's power socket and ring them saying it caught fire (probably same way the other MBP guy got a new MBP, anyway I do not believe his cable melted due to any defect!)

Apple's computers are already 100% overpriced, so please don't give us that "every consumer will have to pay an additional $300 for a flawless computer".

It is ALREADY overpriced, all those extras have already been paid, it is just that Apple failed to keep up with their end of their bargain and thought they can get away with using cheap crap!
I agree, funniest thing is Apple doesnt even make the panels. Reminds me of the integrated graphics.............they sucked until Apple started using them now they are OK:rolleyes:
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
generik said:
Please, it is so bloody easy to make flawless LCDs nowadays. Guess what? In your everyday Core Duo processors there are 151.6 MILLION transistors, and every single one of them has to be absolutely flawless to ensure that you even have a real computer, and not one that will randomly spew "1+1=3" for no mysterious reason.
False! Almost every CPU on the market has one or more material flaws in it somewhere. Fortunately, most people never encounter problems as a result--egregious math errors are rare, just like egregious display errors are rare. Additionally, Intel discards about 1/3 of their stamped CPUs in their production runs. Because CPUs can be melted down and re-stamped, the price overrun isn't as severe. LCDs can't be melted down and reused in this same way. You're comparing different production methods--one made from a consistent material that is produced using masters which are reproduced, and one which is an assembly of individual small parts made of multiple different materials.

Even Eizo's product literature says that a small number of pixel errors is possible, and their 20" widescreen displays retail at up to the price of an entire 17" iMac. They're likely going to replace your display if you complain, but they're also not obligated to--you pay a much greater margin on Eizo displays, though.

shrhaider said:
I guess I just don't think that Apple (or any other company selling LCDs) makes it very obvious to the consumer that they may be buying a new monitor/computer that statistically could very well have stuck pixels. I believe that is the primary reason people are having such strong reactions to this thread. It is not common sense, as you say, to know that during the manufacturing of LCDs, it is too costly to guarantee this will not happen.
Any brief research into LCD technology will reveal the statistical difficulty in producing perfect panels as the biggest drawback to the technology--it takes less than five minutes to learn this. Apple's own literature also illustrates this fact, so if you discover the problem and then go look for a solution, you'd find a statement indicating that a small number of pixel anomalies is normal. I agree that many customers aren't aware of the reality, but it's not a guarded secret, and no other consumer product has to explain minor aberrations. Ultimately, the customer has to take responsibility for knowing the uses and limitations of their own purchases.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
generik said:
I've never seen a dead pixel in any LCD monitors I've purchased, and guess why? I purchase high quality "pro" stuff from companies like Eizo and NEC. On the other hand who knows what Apple is doing.
I would suggest you check the other relevant forums then, because both Eizo and NEC have a tremendous number of complaints about dead pixels and the like. They're not any more perfect than Apple, and unless they've instituted a no stuck pixel policy themselves, aren't any more liable to replace the units than Apple.

If Apple refuses to fix the problem satisfactory just take a gas lighter to your iMac's power socket and ring them saying it caught fire (probably same way the other MBP guy got a new MBP, anyway I do not believe his cable melted due to any defect!)
Again, these mercenary tactics are what make service so difficult and expensive. Just because you don't get your way is not an excuse to commit fraud or to cheat. And if you'd been following, you'd see that the problem was resolved.

Apple's computers are already 100% overpriced, so please don't give us that "every consumer will have to pay an additional $300 for a flawless computer".
Regardless of what you think about Apple's current prices, they've set their margins. To meet this demand would mean a 25-30% price increase on their panel supply parts, which translates into a retail price hike. The LCD is the most expensive component on an iMac. The price you pay includes the built-in costs of materials. Any increase to the price of inputs aside from minor variations translates to an increase in the retail price, plain and simple. And since Apple already buys the highest grade lots that are available on the current market, the only way to improve quality is to hand-select individual panels from those lots and reject the others--a tremendous expense for a negligible benefit.

I've had experience handling over 200 LCDs and using dozens more in my life, and I can tell you that no vendor is perfect, not even Eizo (which caters to the EXTREME high end).
 

TTW

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2006
4
0
York, PA
Brand new MacBook Pro with dead pixel! ARRGH!

Okay, I just got my new MacBook Pro delivered today. I was impressed beacause shipping from China via FedEx only took 2 days. Nice!

However, it means little now because the screen has to go back to Apple to have the screen replaced. It has a dead pixel.

I found this thread and figured I'd join in the fun.

You see it's not about perfection, it's about expectation. If a company builds a product (or service) and knows that it cannot deliver a high rate of excellent as often as it would like it must let the customer know so that we can lower our expectations. However, I don't think that Apple would ever do this because that's one of the things that sets them apart.

Now as far as the general public's expectations go. We wont expect less by default because most screens don't have dead pixels...a minority do. I own a PowerBook, a Cinema Display, a 17" LCD and a 42" Plasma. NONE have dead pixels so why would I expect less from a newer machine by default?

Now as far as "not noticing". I agree that "what you don't see wont hurt you". If you buy a new car and the undercarriage has a major scrape somewhere, what does it hurt you? You wont even notice. What's more is that if someone told you AND pointed it out, most buyer still wouldn't care. However, what about a paint scratch? That's a different story.

I design on my Mac sometimes and a dead pixel is a distraction. If I want a black pixel there, it's gonna be there because I put it there! Capish?

And I think it's funny how even my psyche knew something was wrong...it kept telling me, "wipe that damn crumb off the screen".

Bottom line: Apple agrees with me and that's why they are sending a DHL shipper (prepaid). I'll shove it off, it'll get fixed and it'll cost me nothing. So I don't understand what all the "deal with it" mantras are all about.
 

mac000

macrumors 6502a
Sep 6, 2005
679
0
TTW said:
Okay, I just got my new MacBook Pro delivered today. I was impressed beacause shipping from China via FedEx only took 2 days. Nice!

However, it means little now because the screen has to go back to Apple to have the screen replaced. It has a dead pixel.

I found this thread and figured I'd join in the fun.

You see it's not about perfection, it's about expectation. If a company builds a product (or service) and knows that it cannot deliver a high rate of excellent as often as it would like it must let the customer know so that we can lower our expectations. However, I don't think that Apple would ever do this because that's one of the things that sets them apart.

Now as far as the general public's expectations go. We wont expect less by default because most screens don't have dead pixels...a minority do. I own a PowerBook, a Cinema Display, a 17" LCD and a 42" Plasma. NONE have dead pixels so why would I expect less from a newer machine by default?

Now as far as "not noticing". I agree that "what you don't see wont hurt you". If you buy a new car and the undercarriage has a major scrape somewhere, what does it hurt you? You wont even notice. What's more is that if someone told you AND pointed it out, most buyer still wouldn't care. However, what about a paint scratch? That's a different story.

I design on my Mac sometimes and a dead pixel is a distraction. If I want a black pixel there, it's gonna be there because I put it there! Capish?

And I think it's funny how even my psyche knew something was wrong...it kept telling me, "wipe that damn crumb off the screen".

Bottom line: Apple agrees with me and that's why they are sending a DHL shipper (prepaid). I'll shove it off, it'll get fixed and it'll cost me nothing. So I don't understand what all the "deal with it" mantras are all about.

What did you tell them to get Apple to fix your screen for 1 dead pixel? just curious..
 

TTW

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2006
4
0
York, PA
What did I say?

mac000 said:
What did you tell them to get Apple to fix your screen for 1 dead pixel? just curious..

Nothing special, but there was something interesting about the AppleCare rep...he seemed to be a new hire. It's not hard to tell when the person of the other side of the phone is unsure of himself. Anyway, I'm sure, but in my research I've found that it seems that the AppleCare rep on the phone has some limited authority to "okay" or "nay" your return request based on his/her personal diagnosis (read: opinion).

So while it might not be Apple policy...The guy on the other end of the phone must not have remembered his "just say no" training.

One other thing, though. I didn't mention it, because things happen, but although shipping was great, the ordering process was a debacle. It took a week from the time I placed the order online until it was actually shipped. I had multiple calls to and from my salesperson and the billing department for stupid stuff that had nothing to do with me. So I think that helped a bit maybe :)

Guess what, though? After all of that, I think I'm just gonna keep it. I use my Cinema Display mostly anyway. The days of carrying my notebook to do work all over the house are practically over. I need to relax a bit. So I figure that the dead pixel is something I can relax on too. Still stinks when I think about what I spent :) Why can't something like the firewire port be broken? I never use that.
 

TTW

macrumors newbie
May 4, 2006
4
0
York, PA
Have Apple fix your dead pixels...No matter the number!

This is funny. This is a nearly 5-year old post from another forum I found on Google:

>>>>>

I noted the message from a new PowerBook owner where he expressed dismay over a center-screen dead pixel.

Back when the first PowerBook's were introduced, and the issue of dead pixels came out, Apple had a similar policy of refusing to do warranty replacements if you had less than a certain number of problematic pixels...five I think.

A small freeware program subsequently surfaced that would turn off at least that many, allowing otherwise frustrated owners to then accomplish what Apple seemed reluctant to do...obtain a replacement screen with proper functionality and thereby keeping the customer happy.

This method of spoofing the warranty worked then, and it may be time to see if that program is still around in someone's archive...

I also recall that once Apple learned of the soft-spoof, they loosened their stance on screen replacements.

Service tech: "How many dead pixels you got?" Customer: "...how many you need?" :)

I fully understand the technical and cost issues behind this situation and I do not advocate blatant warranty manipulation, however, the customer brings certain expectations to the table when making a purchase, and they have as much right to something in return for their efforts as any manufacturer. I would want to know before hand how many functional pixels less I am getting than the person in line ahead of me.
 

j26

macrumors 68000
Mar 30, 2005
1,724
612
Paddyland
Just a quick take on the legal position.

I'm not sure what level of consumer protection you might have by statute, but whether you were aware in advance of the policy would be relevant under contract law (we share the same common law heritage - guess who'se studying law!)

Courts generally don't like exclusion clauses or limitation clauses, and generally they are not held to be valid unless
1. They are incorpotated by signature, or appropriate notice (if you signed something, or there is a notice on display in the shop on monitor policy)
2. The clause actually fully covers what happened

If you genuinely didn't know you could let them know that they didn't give you adequate notice and question the validity of the pixel policy in your contract with them.
 

matticus008

macrumors 68040
Jan 16, 2005
3,330
1
Bay Area, CA
j26 said:
If you genuinely didn't know you could let them know that they didn't give you adequate notice and question the validity of the pixel policy in your contract with them.
Unfortunately, no. Just because an individual isn't aware of specific issues doesn't mean that expectations on the company or liability are any different. The pixel policy isn't an exclusion clause in warranty provisions per se--they aren't exempting themselves from warranty repairs and instead are recognizing that there is no repair or replacement procedure below a nominal threshold established by the manufacturers of LCD panels. Apple's suppliers cannot guarantee a higher level or frequency of perfection, and Apple has not voluntarily committed to an elective, higher standard and so cannot be legally held responsible.

As for your conditions, despite not needing to be met in this case, are regardless satisfied. Completing a purchase creates a contract between the seller and the buyer--no signature need be involved unless special terms are selected on an individual basis. As for #2, all policies are available to the purchaser beforehand, afterward, and in the store upon request, and like case discovery, buyers are expected to perform a reasonable level of research to prepare for the purchase. Even if this common sense step were not required, the fact that no manufacturer provides perfect displays is enough to recognize that Apple has met all implied warranty of fitness standards and that no special notice is required as Apple's products do not suffer more than any others.
 

McBaine

macrumors newbie
Oct 25, 2007
1
0
Intel Imac Pixel Problem

I wrote the following story of my experience with apple in the hope that others with a similar problem with an apple product can use this case as a precedent so that they can get some kind of a positive outcome from Apple.

I had just purchased a brand spanking new 20" iMac from Apple thinking it would be so beautiful and brilliant. However the first day I got it I noticed a small red dot stuck on the screen, I realised straight away it was a stuck pixel and read up everything on them I could so that I might be able to fix the problem. I tried massaging it and flashing bright colours behind it fast but none of it worked. So I decided to call Apple and ask them what to do. They told me that I would have to take it to a service center so that it can be diagnosed by a technician. But what was there to diagnose? A dead pixel is a dead pixel. I figured, I shouldn't have to take it to a service center for a fault that was apparent from the first day of use. So anyway, I rang the service center and told the tech my situation, they told me that yes I could bring the machine in and he'd tell me the exact same thing as what I already know, but that I'd be wasting my time because apparently Apple requires 6 or more pixels to be stuck to be able to say they will replace the whole machine. Now I find that really poor, you are paying for an already overpriced computer and they can't guarantee a fully working quality machine. So I rang apple back up again and told them what the tech said, and he said oh don't listen to what he says you should take it to be tested anyway. This reveals something else about Apple; not only do they not trust the customer's word but they can't even trust their own technicians. By this time I wanted some common sense to come into the equation and was continually transferred to higher ranking people in the office until I reached a manager. By this time I had also noticed a second pixel that was stuck, but it wasn't near the middle like the other and stayed grey in appearance.

The manager I spoke to was, to put it blatantly a complete idiot, he didn't know anything and kept quoting the companies policy. Now lets review this policy for a second, this 6 pixel rule. This so called 'policy' that they have is not legally enforceable nor is it readily available for the public to see. It is a hidden policy that Apple has, and hid behind, using the excuse "Apple regards two dead pixels to be acceptable." Well I don't! They do have a very vague page on this policy on the Apple website hidden away in customer support, but nowhere does it define how many pixels they deem necessary for a replacement. The manager also kept giving me the spiel "if we had to replace every screen that had a pixel problem we would have to dramatically raise our prices" which is a load of bull! Their computers are already way overpriced and proclaim themselves as industry innovators, you would think they could get something as simple as an lcd screen to work properly, other companies can do it. After an hour of arguing with him I realised I was getting anywhere and decided I will call again in the morning and try talk to someone higher up, and I did. The person was from Customer Relations and had a better brain than the last guy... or so I thought. It ended up being that they couldn't do anything until I got the computer officially diagnosed by a tech, so I thought fine, i cant be stuffed arguing anymore, its an inconvenience but hopefully after the tech approves the problem they can act on it.

So I took it to the tech and he said exactly what I had said, that it was small but annoying because the pixel was near the middle and that really they should replace it but it wasnt up to him to decide that, instead he would write a letter of recommendation to them, and so he did. So I received a call from the same Customer Relations person I had spoken to before and he tries to duck and weave around the problem, saying well there isn't much I can really do about it, then he became reluctant and made some quite interesting comments including "oh..your system is upgraded isn't it, well if we replaced it that would make it hard to offload to somebody else" and I thought to myself WHAT!? If I send the machine back they'll just resend it off to some other poor unsuspecting person? That is really dodgey. He continues to duck and weave. I previously looked up other people with the same problem and found a forum with a person from Norway who had actually had success in getting replacement with ease. I told them of this, and created a precedent, he came back with mumbo jumbo about Sweden having different policies and I thought no, Apple is a worldwide company, if they offer that service to a customer in Norway they should offer it everywhere. Then he suggests something to me, he says "ok this is off the record, but why don't you just return it on 'buyers remorse' say that you weren't happy with the machine and you want a refund" and I thought to myself, but its upgraded i dont think they'll let me, but since he suggested it to me I thought oh ok I must be able to then. So he gave me a different number, I called it and waited 20mins, finally I got through, told them what I wanted to do and they said I couldn't because the system had been upgraded. Guess what I did next, I rang the guy from Customer Relations (CR) back and told him off, as any normal person would. He knew that I couldn't return it on buyers remorse, he just wanted to get rid of me, so then he offers another option... he tells me "i noticed that you are a uni student, if you could compile a document that specifies why the problem would effect you doing your course I'll put it to the management and see what they say." And I thought, oh my god... I shouldn't have to do this, it is such a simple problem that they should fix with one phone call, but no, they wanted to inconvenience me for as long as they could. So I reluctantly wrote up a page, I basically copy/pasted the course outline from the university website and emailed it to him, highlighting the main parts. A few days later he came back saying that management had agreed to send a replacement. I was like yes! finally!! a win for common sense. But no matter the outcome I was still determined to put a complaint in to consumer affairs about them.

However when the CR guy called me he kept making it out as if he and Apple had done me some huge favour I was just like oh please... he kept saying you are lucky, you know you are an exception, I could have said something but I bit my lip and thought i'll wait to report the whole ordeal to consumer affairs. He then tells me about the details of receiving the replacement, and says "how soon can you have the system ready to be picked up by our couriers" I said oh, probably by tomorrow, and then he said, ok thats good I'll have the new one shipped out to you tomorrow and it'll arrive in 5-7 days. And I thought to myself..oh, in that case can they pick the old machine up on Friday, and he agreed. Then he wanted me to e-mail him my shipping address and asked me over the phone the specifications of the computer I originally ordered so they could make sure the replacement was the same. BUT THEY SHOULD ALREADY HAVE MY DETAILS! I could have told him any specifications I wanted on the system and he wouldn't have known, but I told him truthfully what i had and when I said I had a 750GB HD he didn't believe me and went and checked on the Apple website... I couldn't believe it, this guy has no brain. Anyway, I sent him the details through email but thought no, they don't have to pick it up on the Friday, I'll specify a later date for them to pick the faulty one up, and wait till I get the replacement, just to make sure the new one actually worked well... He emailed me back, with a quite rude and forceful tone saying that they could not ship out the replacement until they had the faulty machine. So I emailed him back quite angrily saying how he didn't make that clear over the phone and that Apple loves to inconvenience their consumers, so why should I expect more? He did not take this very well and rang me up and in a disgruntled tone told me the same story again, you know you are lucky, you're making it sound as if we're not doing you a huge favour, I told him "YOU'RE NOT, you're making this such a hassle" then he went on about the policy and i interupted him telling him that it was a "hollow and hidden policy that wasn't part of their warranty" and he says "it is enforceable by law" and quickly changes the subject, he ducked and weaved again! Then he presented me with an option for me to give him my credit card details so that he could send out the replacement machine while still keeping the old faulty one. But apparently they had some documents they needed to send me, from a different dept. the department of merchandise collection...its funny that they have to have a special department for this.

Anyhow I recieve a call from a guy at merchandise collection confirming again the shipping address and the specs of the machine and my email address so that he could send me this document which I had to agree to in order to get the replacement sent out and i thought... could they really make this anymore difficult than it already is...upon reading the form he sent me, they had. The form was full of loop holes and required me to ship them back the old machine myself, it also said that if the new machine were to have any fault with it that I must accept it. And there is no way I am adhereing to such conditions. So I sent him an email querying the document. I didn't hear from them for three days so I called him up asking when he was going to get back to me. He finally rang me up and talked to me over the phone explaining the document, and that the wording of the document was actually wrong. So he said the new machine will be shipped out soon, sure enough 5 days later it came. I was anxious, worrying that this one would have the same problem. Luckily it didn't, however this one had a new problem. One that is probably just as annoying as the pixel one. The DVD drive chokes and splutters when you insert a DVD, then when you want to eject it, it takes up to 15 times for it to eventually come out... I could not be bothered wasting more of my time with apple and going through their crap again so I will just live with it.

After all this I will never buy an Apple product again, merely because of their absolutely appauling customer service, never have I encounted such a business that puts their customers through such huge inconveniences and stress. I was expecting them to give me something for my troubles but then thought, no way, its Apple, they think they are in the right...how wrong they are... they are going down big time!

The bottom line is... don't buy Apple. If you do... then you had better pray to God there's nothing wrong with it
 

DesignerOnMac

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2007
827
65
Disagree....

I'm going to have to disagree with you. If I make a big investment, I expect it to be perfect, and I use that tern loosely. If I spend around $1,500 for a computer, I don't expect it to have a glaring stuck pixel right in the middle, and I don't believe anyone should settle with that.

LCD screens are never 'perfect', and neither is anyones life for that matter. One dead pixel in the middle of the monitor? Hey, open a window and it is gone! The last ACD I purchased had 3 dead pixels! Did not bother me one bit, and I paid $3,599.00 for it!

Get a life people!
 

sirip

macrumors newbie
Aug 12, 2008
3
0
I have the same problem with my Imac! I dead pixel.
But I didn´t noticed it until I changed my background picture to a bw one, and this was more than 14 days after I bought it.
 

Edge100

macrumors 68000
May 14, 2002
1,562
13
Where am I???
Just a quick take on the legal position.

I'm not sure what level of consumer protection you might have by statute, but whether you were aware in advance of the policy would be relevant under contract law (we share the same common law heritage - guess who'se studying law!)

Courts generally don't like exclusion clauses or limitation clauses, and generally they are not held to be valid unless
1. They are incorpotated by signature, or appropriate notice (if you signed something, or there is a notice on display in the shop on monitor policy)
2. The clause actually fully covers what happened

If you genuinely didn't know you could let them know that they didn't give you adequate notice and question the validity of the pixel policy in your contract with them.

Finally, a voice of reason.

All that matters is whether Apple made a reasonable effort to inform you of the policy re: dead pixels (such as a prominent link on apple.com, which is there for the cinema displays but NOT for the iMac, MB, or MBP). Should you reasonably have been aware of the policy?

The answer in this case is clearly NO. Apple knows that the number of people that will return computers for one bad pixel is not that high, so they gamble; if they posted the policy, people would check. by not posting the policy, they only have to replace those computers purchased by the very litigious amongst us; people who know their rights.

So if you have a single stuck/dead pixel, go and get it replaced!
 

DesignerOnMac

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2007
827
65
I am a PC switcher too!!!
I absolutely love the computer, but I'm going to be doing photo stuff, so I cannot under any circumstances keep this computer. If my cc covers the restocking fee, I will buy the imac at compusa.

Your going to be opening a window on your screen that will "hide" this stick pixel. It will have NO effect on your photography work! One frecken pixel in how many millions???? Dah!!
 

Mangaroo

macrumors regular
Mar 22, 2008
123
0
London
This is funny. This is a nearly 5-year old post from another forum I found on Google:

>>>>>

I noted the message from a new PowerBook owner where he expressed dismay over a center-screen dead pixel.

Back when the first PowerBook's were introduced, and the issue of dead pixels came out, Apple had a similar policy of refusing to do warranty replacements if you had less than a certain number of problematic pixels...five I think.

A small freeware program subsequently surfaced that would turn off at least that many, allowing otherwise frustrated owners to then accomplish what Apple seemed reluctant to do...obtain a replacement screen with proper functionality and thereby keeping the customer happy.

This method of spoofing the warranty worked then, and it may be time to see if that program is still around in someone's archive...

I also recall that once Apple learned of the soft-spoof, they loosened their stance on screen replacements.

Service tech: "How many dead pixels you got?" Customer: "...how many you need?" :)

I fully understand the technical and cost issues behind this situation and I do not advocate blatant warranty manipulation, however, the customer brings certain expectations to the table when making a purchase, and they have as much right to something in return for their efforts as any manufacturer. I would want to know before hand how many functional pixels less I am getting than the person in line ahead of me.

I'd be interested in this application if it's still floating about
 

queshy

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2005
3,690
4
Go back and don't take no from an answer. Call Apple to back you up. Get a case #. If that doesn't work, work your way up to customer/executive relations and they will make it right. Persistence is key in dealing with Apple geniuses who are on power trips.
 

highjumppudding

macrumors 6502
Mar 1, 2008
314
0
i'm a former apple employee...

most retail employees will stay true to the "policy"

a few options that would work:
- if you make a huge fuss repeatedly at the store, they will give in. be persistent.
- if you get the right person that actually cares (even a specialist) they will honestly tell the manager what they want to do about it. sometimes honestly, it is up to the specialist how they feel about the customer and situation.
- same as above for the genius bar, get the right person that actually cares or is in a good mood.
- return it to a different apple store. maybe even tell them at some point that the other store has been pushing you around and unreasonable, let them know about your bad experience. each store is in competition with another with quarterly numbers, they don't like the other stores necessarily.
- you can call apple care over the phone, and fill them in on the horrible situation you are in. even go as far to tell them that you want to return the computer and avoid the ridiculous open box fee for the frustration, and get a dell. you shouldnt have to go that far. just tell them that in the end, you want to try with another computer without the annoying dead pixel. they will most likely give you a case number which means approval for a "swap" at the retail store. if this is the case, go to any apple store (even the one that gave you trouble) give them the case number, no questions asked.

the key is to be persistent about it. don't let it go. you are paying big bucks for this computer, and to the retail employees you are just another customer. you have the right to get the perfect computer.

best of luck.
 
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