Absolutely!
I have come to realize how little I used Flash to begin with (even on current systems).
Only thing I use it for is the yearbook site for my school.
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Just how far can we go?
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Only thing I use it for is the yearbook site for my school.
But that was my point in starting this thread.
You browse the web just fine using T4Fx. But for how long?
Cameron Kaiser had an almost insurmountable hurdle to clear in getting the browser to version 31. In the middle of it he was despairing that he'd ever get there. Beta 3 is the first version that isn't dog-slow. And my problems with Facebook remain, even after a small bit where I thought it was fixed.
I have to resort to a Fluid app to use Facebook to do anything with photos. How long do we all have before more sites break? Before Kaiser says that's enough?
All stuff I pointed out earlier. Let's be clear. There will be a day when we get on the 'net and while pages may load they may not display correctly anymore.
I'd still be using Opera if Facebook hadn't started insisting I be on a browser higher than the Firefox User Agent Opera 10.10 uses. I could still use Opera, but my FB experience would not be anywhere near the same as it is now.
And let's not get into the hacks and workarounds that we use just to make things work in 2014 and onward. As I mentioned earlier, it'd all be fine if we were all sticking to a certain time period. But we aren't. Yes our Macs are still capable. But again, for how long? I'm tired of trying to make things work. I just want it to WORK, period.
Whether it's Flash, or bad coding, or anything else the fact is that sooner or later we won't be able to keep up.
I am working on a seamless work around to load the mobile versions of certain sites like Twitter, Facebook, and others to ensure that they will work fine. It is easier said than done but could fix that problem...
I think that's great, so don't misunderstand me when I say this, but that's not what I want.
I want to be able to use the full site without any issues. Doing that is getting harder and harder.
Mobile sites are good, and that's why Classila has kept OS9 relevant. But there's a difference between using the mobile FB site and the full site. If I'm going to use a mobile site I might as well pull out my iPhone. If it's what I wanted, I'd still be on an OS9 Mac using Classila.
I am not coming down on you. I think that this is a good idea and it helps prolong things. But it just comes down to a personal preference. Sooner or later my PowerPC Macs are not going to be able to give me the web experience I want. I hope by that time I've been able to move on to Intel Macs so that I can enjoy using my PowerPC Macs for what they ARE capable of doing.
Do any of you guys have problems with mds in leopard going nuts and staying at 100% cpu any time it gets a chance to?
I found that happened on all of my PPC macs after a while, my powerbook g4 had that problem the worst. I'd install a fresh copy of leopard on a clean format of the hard drive, use it without dropping any files on there, and eventually I'd find MDS using up 100% cpu and the fans running full blast.
Other than that, and many websites making tenfourfox unpleasant, it was speedy enough.
I can't complain about TenFourFox though, I'm amazed the dev behind that can do the stuff he does!
I found that happened on all of my PPC macs after a while, my powerbook g4 had that problem the worst. I'd install a fresh copy of leopard on a clean format of the hard drive, use it without dropping any files on there, and eventually I'd find MDS using up 100% cpu and the fans running full blast.
Other than that, and many websites making tenfourfox unpleasant, it was speedy enough.
I can't complain about TenFourFox though, I'm amazed the dev behind that can do the stuff he does!
I totally understand. I have a Facebook account but aren't an avid user so I rarely use the site. Most of the time it is on my phone when waiting in a line or something along those lines. I have been watching a YouTube channel where the guy mainly does work with old hardware. He edits 1080p on his G4. If I get that running on my G5 fully I may be back fully to using my G5 as the daily driver for video work.
I've had that happen a few times. The mds or mdsworker process is a Spotlight process. Usually when it goes crazy like that it's a result of having disabled Spotlight incorrectly, or at least that's been my experience.
You can use Activity Monitor to kill it when this happens.
Uhm internet forums are considered to be social media. You know, where you converse with people from other places. That would include MacRumorsSocial media... Uggh..
But that aside, "social media" is what enables me to talk to friends in Japan, Australia, several in the UK, Belgium, Germany, Brazil, Sweden and Canada.
Don't know if I consider that to be a "waste of real life" or not.
Social media... Uggh..
I guess I am wasting my "real life" typing this reply...
Please, ask him how he does it. I guess is just the CODECs used, or that the footage is converted in OSX/Win.
I am looking for a way to edit in FinalCutPro 3 720p footage in OS9 with files converted on OSX
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Haha lol.
lol, what I kinda meant by social media was the big gahoots like Fb, utube, twitter and all that crud that goes along with that. ;-) But getting back on topic, I recon that I could run with a pm g5 as my only computer, as it is, I still have my old C64 setup that I use quite often for programming. (Yeah it doesn't do facebook that well either
my other box (sides my lappy/windoze box) is a SGI Octane 2 with vpro graphics and that also doesn't do too great with FB games and such. They are still great boxes though, just depends on what your usage is for them. And yep, I just bought a PM G5 DC, and picking it up tomorrow
will that do FAcebook?, don't really care as it's not one of /my/ requirements it'll do great with never winter nights though
We all have different things we ask of our computers. If I strictly needed/used my Macs for design, this would not be an issue for me at all.Haha lol.
But getting back on topic, I recon that I could run with a pm g5 as my only computer, as it is, I still have my old C64 setup that I use quite often for programming. (Yeah it doesn't do facebook that well either
And yep, I just bought a PM G5 DC, and picking it up tomorrow
I could even get by on OS9 if such were the case. However, I spend a lot of time on the internet and I want sites to display properly. Whether it's social (FB, internet forums) or my banking site I just want it to work. That's getting harder and things are starting to get slower. That gives me a shorter amount of time with these old Macs being used in my primary role of browsing. For others, it's inconsequential because their main roles for their old Macs are entirely different than mine.
I recently did a side-by-side comparison between my C2D MacBook and my PowerBook G4, doing tasks such as loading and navigating certain websites, opening and closing frequently used apps and runnning these apps at the same time.
At the moment, my PowerBook only has 512 MB of RAM in it, (I plan to max it out soon) so this immediately gave it a large disadvantage; as a result, the MacBook completely obliterated it in every task I set upon them. Of course, this wasn't completely unexpected. After I upgrade the PowerBook, I still expect it lose badly, but perhaps in a more dignified way.
However, this test was done in the first place purely out of curiosity, and not to prove any points or sway my mind; the fact is, even with the glaring results of how much faster the MacBook is at literally everything, I still use my PowerBook almost exclusively (and will be, after I sell the MacBook). For me at least, even now with its limited memory, it's still fast enough to complete my daily tasks without frustration. Sure, it involves a little more waiting for it to complete a task, or browse through a Facebook page compared to the "instant-everything" nature of the MacBook, but I never have been the "need everything now" type anyway.
At the end of the day, I'll take the much more comfortable, good-looking and soulful PowerBook over the cold, super-fast, only-a-tool MacBook everytime.
At the moment, my PowerBook only has 512 MB of RAM in it, (I plan to max it out soon) so this immediately gave it a large disadvantage; as a result, the MacBook completely obliterated it in every task I set upon them. Of course, this wasn't completely unexpected.
After I upgrade the PowerBook, I still expect it lose badly, but perhaps in a more dignified way. However, this test was done in the first place purely out of curiosity, and not to prove any points or sway my mind; the fact is, even with the glaring results of how much faster the MacBook is at literally everything, I still use my PowerBook almost exclusively (and will be, after I sell the MacBook). For me at least, even now with its limited memory, it's still fast enough to complete my daily tasks without frustration. Sure, it involves a little more waiting for it to complete a task, or browse through a Facebook page compared to the "instant-everything" nature of the MacBook, but I never have been the "need everything now" type anyway.
At the end of the day, I'll take the much more comfortable, good-looking and soulful PowerBook over the cold, super-fast, only-a-tool MacBook everytime.
Part of the charm for me is the tinkering, I guess. I can totally understand wanting to use something that "just works." But after a while, that gets boring. Maybe it's just a phase for me; I'm sure there will come a time when the tinkering is just too cumbersome.
I have no idea how much work is involved in supporting/updating a web browser. I would love someone to explain to me how much work is involved so I could appreciate it even more. I am deeply indebted to Mr. Kaiser for keeping our machines viable on the web. Maybe I'm delirious, but I just don't buy into the mentality that my machine is outdated. Apple had (maybe still has) such a rapid product release cycle and a lot of the PowerPC machines were retired well before their time. If Cameron is tired of developing TFF for our dinosaurs, surely there is someone else knowledgeable enough to undertake such a task or at least contribute to his effort.
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Who wants to develop software for a dead platform? It's only dead because Apple said so.
About slow web browsing with Safari/webkit/T4F :
I also use MorphOS and most for the same reason i use PPC Leopard it is FUN, anyway i find web browsing much easier in MorphOS with OWB (Odyssey Web Browser) than in OS X with any browser.
My thought was a port on OWB to OS X? It is possible it has been made to OS4.
I also use MorphOS and most for the same reason i use PPC Leopard it is FUN, anyway i find web browsing much easier in MorphOS with OWB (Odyssey Web Browser) than in OS X with any browser.
My thought was a port on OWB to OS X? It is possible it has been made to OS4.
Don't get me wrong. This thread was never started because I'm anti-PowerPC. I have many uses for my Macs and they do them very well. But the main use, browsing, is the one that will ultimately get them replaced with an Intel Mac.
And I absolutely enjoy tinkering and making them work. Since I got my first 17" PowerBook G4 I've learned how to remove logicboards, LCDs, hard drives, DC-In boards, optical drives, you name it. I still like taking on a "dead" Mac challenge and I resent eBay's tag of "for parts or repair" or people who say "on it's last legs". If I listened to that last one my 17" PB would have been dead ages ago. But I have invested WAY more than I ever paid for it back into it to keep it running. Part of that was a big FU to the original seller, but a lot of it was because I cannot let that Mac go. It was my very first bought by my self PowerBook and it was the one I had always wanted. Until there are no more parts to be had I will keep it running.
But there are times where I beat my head against the wall over and over. My G4 is a case in point. When it's running it's an awesome Mac. Always wanted the Quicksilver and I have a 1.6Ghz dual processer Quicksilver with a SATA card and four displays! But it's TEMPERMENTAL! And I hate going around and around with it when it should just WORK.
So, that's where I'm coming from there. A lot of G5 owners can say the same. Try getting an LCS to stay functional!!!
As to the browser. I can only speak in general terms, but here's the issue.
Kaiser has to take what Mozillia has decreed as the standard and make it work for PowerPC. Mozilla is using code that is understood by the latest operating systems. He has to take that code, dissemble it. and then make it understandable by 10.4 and 10.5. The major problems come in when 10.4/10.5 are not modern enough to understand the new code. Kaiser and his collaboraters then have to make code patches that translate the new code into something the older OS versions understand.
Doing that can lead to errors, it can lead to unworking code and it can lead to code that takes far too long to do what it's supposed to do. Kaiser has to troubleshoot all of that and find out why it's not working. Then he has to compile it. If it won't compile, then he has to figure out why.
Then in between versions Mozilla changes things. When Mozilla does that then that can affect the patches that Kaiser has written and make them unworkable. So, he's got to repeat the process. He's dealing with massive amount of code and he's got to sort it all out.
Sometimes when you can't figure out the problem you get so frustrated that you're ready to stop. That's where he was when I started this thread. He's better now, but honestly I don't see as fast an upgrade to higher versions as we are all used to. When Mozilla finally drops source code support for 10.6, it's just going to be worse.
He's already stated that it's possible we just drop to feature parity. What that means is that he will attempt to match the features of any new version of Firefox, but will be using the current code to do it or to do something similar. There won't be any more backporting of the new code. At that point we are essentially done when it comes to developing browsers for PowerPC.
As to why anyone else wouldn't take this up, yes, part of it is because it's outdated, but a big part of it is also this struggle I've just described. You have to be completely devoted to the platform or just so interested in coding that this doesn't bother you.
If Kaiser were married, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But he's single so this often occupies most if not all of his free time. Try giving that amount of time to this if you're married and/or have kids.
the power!
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe you don't do enough browsing of the web to ever run into a page that requires flash, but I'd imagine that most people do.
Don't the Powerbook and the plain-old-regular-Macbook look the same? I've found that the Core2Duo MacBook can do everything significantly better than the G5 can (which was chalked up to "bad coding" earlier in the thread) - and it runs on batteries! And how!
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe you don't do enough browsing of the web to ever run into a page that requires flash, but I'd imagine that most people do.
I recently did a side-by-side comparison between my C2D MacBook and my PowerBook G4, doing tasks such as loading and navigating certain websites, opening and closing frequently used apps and runnning these apps at the same time.
At the moment, my PowerBook only has 512 MB of RAM in it, (I plan to max it out soon) so this immediately gave it a large disadvantage; as a result, the MacBook completely obliterated it in every task I set upon them. Of course, this wasn't completely unexpected.
However, this test was done in the first place purely out of curiosity, and not to prove any points or sway my mind; the fact is, even with the glaring results of how much faster the MacBook is at literally everything, I still use my PowerBook almost exclusively (and will be, after I sell the MacBook). For me at least, even now with its limited memory, it's still fast enough to complete my daily tasks without frustration. Sure, it involves a little more waiting for it to complete a task, or browse through a Facebook page compared to the "instant-everything" nature of the MacBook, but I never have been the "need everything now" type anyway.
At the end of the day, I'll take the much more comfortable, good-looking and soulful PowerBook over the cold, super-fast, only-a-tool MacBook everytime.
Don't the Powerbook and the plain-old-regular-Macbook look the same? I've found that the Core2Duo MacBook can do everything significantly better than the G5 can (which was chalked up to "bad coding" earlier in the thread) - and it runs on batteries! And how!
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe you don't do enough browsing of the web to ever run into a page that requires flash, but I'd imagine that most people do.
Don't the Powerbook and the plain-old-regular-Macbook look the same? I've found that the Core2Duo MacBook can do everything significantly better than the G5 can (which was chalked up to "bad coding" earlier in the thread) - and it runs on batteries! And how!
Flash is on most sites. Even MacRumors has some Flash based ads sometimes. I prefer a cleaner experience and I am a tinkerer so adding plug-ins and work arounds to make browsing faster is no problem by me. That being said, I know where eyoungren is coming from, and to be honest it isn't far off from full obsolescence. There is only so much working around a virtual wall you can do.
Don't the Powerbook and the plain-old-regular-Macbook look the same? I've found that the Core2Duo MacBook can do everything significantly better than the G5 can (which was chalked up to "bad coding" earlier in the thread) - and it runs on batteries! And how!
It's the 15" and 17" Powerbook that looks like the Macbook Pro, up to the redesign in late-2008.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe you don't do enough browsing of the web to ever run into a page that requires flash, but I'd imagine that most people do.
Don't the Powerbook and the plain-old-regular-Macbook look the same? I've found that the Core2Duo MacBook can do everything significantly better than the G5 can (which was chalked up to "bad coding" earlier in the thread) - and it runs on batteries! And how!
Well, on the first part, I keep Flash blocked. The only time it runs is when I specifically unblock Flash for whatever instance I desire. And that's pretty rare.
As for the first Intel models, the original Macbook NotPro models were based off of the iBook G4's. Those models don't exist anymore. We now have the Air and the Pro for new purchase, neither of which I'll touch with a fifty foot pole due to everything being stuck together. My next Mac laptop will be an older model MacBook Pro where I can actually fiddle with it if I need to.
I am a big fan of classic MacBook Pros for that reason. The Unibody is great and they are plenty fast enough. The parts are abundant, generally reasonable, and very reliable. Apple can even order new parts at a Genius Bar for 2008+ machines I believe...