The later classic Macbook Pros have the faulty Nvidia GPUs that greatly hamper their reliability.
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The later classic Macbook Pros have the faulty Nvidia GPUs that greatly hamper their reliability.
I was mainly speaking of the unibody models. They had blips here and there with reliability (2011 models) but as a whole they are pretty good. I do not like the older MacBook Pro design like the PowerBooks. Just seems stale even though I like the design. It is almost like they took my favorite design, took the soul out (PPC), and called it a new product. Oh wait... they did!
Definitely. Repairs are much better and I appreciate the "everything comes out the bottom" mentality rather than remove the top case then do this then that etc.
This made me chuckle. From the standpoint of having a wife and kids, I can say that I would not have that much time to devote to such a project. However, the workload could be spread over a team of volunteers (similarly to those MorphOS guys).
I'm not code savvy at all. What I interpret that to mean is he would be forking off from a certain code base. What's wrong with continually updating that fork to retain PPC compatibility? You mention the OS limitations. With regard to web content, doesn't the browser do all the work? The questions are intended to provoke an argument, rather I'm just looking for a little education.
I'm not code savvy at all. What I interpret that to mean is he would be forking off from a certain code base. What's wrong with continually updating that fork to retain PPC compatibility? You mention the OS limitations. With regard to web content, doesn't the browser do all the work? The questions are intended to provoke an argument, rather I'm just looking for a little education.
The browser does all of the work, but they have to take something used on the current XCode and rip it apart to get it working under either 10.4 or 10.5's XCode. At some point, there will be an item that is essential and just can't be coded around, and it looks like the current beta of TFF is that case, as it seems to be frustrating Cameron Kaiser. If it isn't, it's looking like the next round will be.
It's at that point that forward progress (keeping up with the current version) is going to cease and sideways progress (keeping that version working and secure as long as possible) begins. We're not done with PowerPC web browsing by a long shot. There is, however, a brick wall at the end of the tunnel that may or may not be coming soon.
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I re-read my previous post. I intended to say that my questions are NOT intended to provoke an argument. Sorry for the confusion.
They even missed out on marketing with the name change. Apple could have said something like "We're putting the POWER back into the PowerBook" for their advertising slogan. Or we could have "The iBook: Same name, amazing results."
Instead, we got "I want everything to have Mac in its name." I can understand the logic of this too, since consumers aren't going to be confused over which iBook is the Intel iBook.
I think it was part of trying to clean the slate of problems and reputation of the past. It is like releasing a brand new vehicle under the same name. Everyone will expect it to be so similar but in reality it is all new. Plus they wanted to unify the names across the line to have Mac.
I agree. Although I've gotten used to "MacBook Pro", it doesn't roll off my tongue quite the same way as "PowerBook" did/does.
Thats a good point. I really wish they kept that name, just because the Power didn't ever mean PowerPC, but the name does a bit sound 'cheesy'.
If you weren't aware, TenFourFox 24 is now dead. 31RC was posted early and is now the new stable.
That said, my last addon was updated on July 15! All In One Sidebar. Of course, somewhere between my moving to 31b3 and now I did something that made it not work!
So, the last hour or so has been spent redoing the stuff I did when I made the jump from 24 to 31 from a backup copy of my T4Fx profile, but without having messed with AIOS.
Whatever file it was or config tweak it's gone now and I have AIOS working again completely. So, now, that's it. Total transition to 31.
That said, my last addon was updated on July 15! All In One Sidebar. Of course, somewhere between my moving to 31b3 and now I did something that made it not work!
So, the last hour or so has been spent redoing the stuff I did when I made the jump from 24 to 31 from a backup copy of my T4Fx profile, but without having messed with AIOS.
Whatever file it was or config tweak it's gone now and I have AIOS working again completely. So, now, that's it. Total transition to 31.
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for me personally, my new G5 will be perfectly fine for a few years. Facebook works just fine in ten four fox and mactubes is more than suitable. my bigger issues is finding a daw that's good for producing electronic based music, once I do I have an idea for a series of videos.
Ableton?
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I'm back on a PowerPC (G5) again. Actually had a DP once, but then I stepped back from using computers. Now i'm on a DC. For some reason, I prefer PPC (and, i got this one cheap with a great monitor). Anyway, for me, personally, it suits my needs just fine.
iWork, Garageband, iPhoto for my photos, a little photo editing, some internet, IRC and iTunes for all my music. (I don't have Spotify and Skype right now. Had it once though for a short period.) So far, the few sites i'm actually visiting does look right. (Safari + Leopard Webkit) But that's just so far.
It's kinda sad that one of the main reason why some people have to change is that browsing the web doesn't look right and that Spotify and Skype doesn't get updated.
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I've been using a G3 iBook running Debian for some time. The one thing I noticed was the up-to-date browsers available for PPC iterations of Debian, I can't speak for other Linux distros.
I have modern Macs and the current Mac OS in current systems has a lot more eye-candy, and much easier to use than Linux. This iBook however was stuck in the past, It's a 600Mhz machine, it can't even run Tiger properly - Yes it runs, slowly.
Cameron Kaiser has done a really great job and a great service to the community by providing continuous browser updates. However some of the browsers I used to use in other system - Aurora, other PPC webkit browsers, have all been discontinued. It seems that now the only remaining source for the modern web that is still current and still being developed for is TenFourFox, which is great, if you have the power to run it.
Once TenFourFox goes however that seems to be it for these macs as far as the MacOS+WebBrowsing duo goes. But I don't think it's the end.
Debian offers many lightweight browsers, one of the reasons I switched over to it on PPC. The G3 doesn't have the power that TFF requires and I realized this when I handed the laptop off to my little cousins and they couldn't even run FaceBook on it. Debian however has browsers that are current for the PPC and I think that offers a different roadmap for those of us who still want to hang onto our precious PPC systems. Yes, Apple abandoned the PPC but it doesn't mean they are useless. I think Linux is the future for PPC macs once we hit that web wall on the Mac OS side.
I have modern Macs and the current Mac OS in current systems has a lot more eye-candy, and much easier to use than Linux. This iBook however was stuck in the past, It's a 600Mhz machine, it can't even run Tiger properly - Yes it runs, slowly.
Cameron Kaiser has done a really great job and a great service to the community by providing continuous browser updates. However some of the browsers I used to use in other system - Aurora, other PPC webkit browsers, have all been discontinued. It seems that now the only remaining source for the modern web that is still current and still being developed for is TenFourFox, which is great, if you have the power to run it.
Once TenFourFox goes however that seems to be it for these macs as far as the MacOS+WebBrowsing duo goes. But I don't think it's the end.
Debian offers many lightweight browsers, one of the reasons I switched over to it on PPC. The G3 doesn't have the power that TFF requires and I realized this when I handed the laptop off to my little cousins and they couldn't even run FaceBook on it. Debian however has browsers that are current for the PPC and I think that offers a different roadmap for those of us who still want to hang onto our precious PPC systems. Yes, Apple abandoned the PPC but it doesn't mean they are useless. I think Linux is the future for PPC macs once we hit that web wall on the Mac OS side.
You can optimize T4Fx. Just like with Firefox, anything you can do in about:config can be done in the same place with the same keys/values in T4Fx.
Just today I found four more values to change and it's improved my browsing capability beyond all the tweaks I've already made.
ngpaintlayout and pipelining are just two of some of the multiple settings you can alter to fix things. Max server requests, etc, etc. Just do a search for speeding up Firefox and you'll be presented with a whole bunch of tricks you can use.
Never use the browser straight out of the box. Ram issues? Force T4Fx to not use ANY cache at all. If you have a reasonable to high speed data connection then loading stuff over the net instead of keeping it cached in local ram (of which you have little of) is faster.
Issues with Javascript? NoScript, Request Policy. Want to force JS libraries to load off your own hard drive versus the external server, an addon called Local Load.
There's a bunch of stuff you can do to make it faster.
P.S. Kaiser has seriously improved garbage collection and memory management in T4Fx 31. So, if you aren't using that version I would suggest it. Anything below version 24 tends to suffer from Firefox's bugaboo, memory and cpu hogging.
Just today I found four more values to change and it's improved my browsing capability beyond all the tweaks I've already made.
ngpaintlayout and pipelining are just two of some of the multiple settings you can alter to fix things. Max server requests, etc, etc. Just do a search for speeding up Firefox and you'll be presented with a whole bunch of tricks you can use.
Never use the browser straight out of the box. Ram issues? Force T4Fx to not use ANY cache at all. If you have a reasonable to high speed data connection then loading stuff over the net instead of keeping it cached in local ram (of which you have little of) is faster.
Issues with Javascript? NoScript, Request Policy. Want to force JS libraries to load off your own hard drive versus the external server, an addon called Local Load.
There's a bunch of stuff you can do to make it faster.
P.S. Kaiser has seriously improved garbage collection and memory management in T4Fx 31. So, if you aren't using that version I would suggest it. Anything below version 24 tends to suffer from Firefox's bugaboo, memory and cpu hogging.
I heard a rumor where Leopard users will get a "Legacy" version that will work with Leopard since I guess now signing into skype pre 6.something won't let you sign in as MSFT gave no warning to this (although we were all aware of it).
Said a spokesperson for the company. What I would like to see is a version that works with PowerPC so we can be semi- up to date and still able to use our G4 and G5s for chat and calls, and I don't dock my MBP. It's used as a laptop and my 2.3 G5 is the main desktop. But if I had to bet on it, the release will only be for intel and we all just were kicked to the curb. And if you still have XP (I still have some machines) or Vista and try to use skype you are given the middle finger by MSFT.
Said a spokesperson for the company. What I would like to see is a version that works with PowerPC so we can be semi- up to date and still able to use our G4 and G5s for chat and calls, and I don't dock my MBP. It's used as a laptop and my 2.3 G5 is the main desktop. But if I had to bet on it, the release will only be for intel and we all just were kicked to the curb. And if you still have XP (I still have some machines) or Vista and try to use skype you are given the middle finger by MSFT.
I am with you on that one. I hate how unnecessarily slow websites are... and for what? To load a pretty picture 10x slower than it could be with that same picture back in the day? Flash needs to die in order to make ANY computer last longer. To prove that sites' slowness is due to loading mostly garbage, setting your user agent in your browser to something like Internet ExploDer 6 makes everything that it can load, load MUCH faster. It thinks you are on an old computer with an old browser, therefore cutting the cr@p and giving you results instantly. All this extra stuff slows things down. (although some important things won't load this way, as you know). If only companies like Google would stop updating their web standards every 5 minutes. Can't they give it a rest?? Besides Google Search, everything by Google is starting to get so slow that even my 2009 MacBook Pro is starting to show signs of lagging with YouTube. If we had left the internet alone in the 90s, besides improving bandwidth, upload & download speed, etc., everything would be fine. We don't need things to look "pretty" when surfing the web. I'd be okay if someone made a site in MS Word 2000--as long as it will load instantly. It's sad that a perfectly good PPC computer can be made 'obsolete' WAY faster just because of the web screwing with it. In fact, the #1 form of obsolescence in a computer, in the eyes of the common consumer, is when their computer becomes slow on the web. They blame the computer, yet they don't know that the web updates way more frequently than computer hardware, therefore outrunning old and mid-range technology. I wish we could put the web to rest now and 10 years later, we can still use the ol' 2014 iMac to get on the web nicely.
While I do agree that the modern web certainly is bloated, I see more than that at play here. I think what's holding back PPC macs in the modern era is the fact that they were already slightly underpowered, even for their time. A PPC G3 iBook from 2003, the last year they were made matched up against a Pentium M laptop from the same year leaves the Pentium M running circles around the G3. It does the same with the G4 laptops of the time. This gap only grew wider and wider as time went on. By the time the Intel transition happened, the most powerful G4 laptops - the 1.67 G4s matched up against the 1.83 or 2.0 CoreDuos - weren't even a challenge anymore. I have a 1.83 CoreDuo from 2006 still running the modern web just fine, still plays youtube in HD, still snappy as ever. The 1.67 G4s? They can manage but struggle and the struggle is getting more pronounced as time goes on.
Some browsers allow you to set the useragent to something Mobile so it reports to the websites as if you're using an iPhone or Android device. I've found that this helps a lot and even an old iBook from 2001 can still very much handle the modern web as a "mobile" device. Are there any broswers for the mac that allow you to do that? I'm not sure TFF does, but if it did that's one possible solution to the lagging PPC problems. Most people already have some sort of smartphone anyway so it really isn't a change when using the mobile versions of websites on a computer, all the essentials are there without the bloat.
Some browsers allow you to set the useragent to something Mobile so it reports to the websites as if you're using an iPhone or Android device. I've found that this helps a lot and even an old iBook from 2001 can still very much handle the modern web as a "mobile" device. Are there any broswers for the mac that allow you to do that? I'm not sure TFF does, but if it did that's one possible solution to the lagging PPC problems. Most people already have some sort of smartphone anyway so it really isn't a change when using the mobile versions of websites on a computer, all the essentials are there without the bloat.
Unfair comparison. The reason to that improved youtube experience is basically because of software. Older PPC versions of Flash never used GPU for video acceleration. Same goes for HTML5 videos.
If you shut video acceleration on your old PC you would have even worse performance than the mac because the mac has an altivec processor. (well most of them)
Write graphic acceleration for the PPC macs and you'd see that they would cope.
Altivec and vector processing isn't unique to the Mac. Apple was big on marketing it but Intel has had vector processing going back over a decade... Just under a different name known as SSE.
If I recall correctly hardware acceleration on flash wasn't available on Intel macs until 10.6? I may be wrong, but I recall this being the case. I know there is a big difference in the amount of processor being used while running a video under 10.5 vs 10.6 and someone mentioned this to be the reason why.
I agree that software plays a role and in an ideal world we could squeeze as much power as we can out of system hampered by inefficiencies. However I think the comparison is certainly fair... The CoreDuos were abandoned by Apple in SnowLeopard, which is just Leopard without the PPC code and a few tweaks. An Intel Mac under 10.4 or 10.5 is easily compared with PPC macs, no hardware acceleration involved in either.
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There are ways to do it in WebKit at least. I could try to write a script to force it to mobile if you guys wanted it. That kind of defeats the purpose of the desktop web though.
eyoungren I am replying to your original post.....I have a few power pc machines and I have asked you more than once about powerbooks and other ppc related issues I have had.I too was in the same situation and what I did was buy an extremely cheap A1181 macbook and all of a sudden had all of the new things I was missing by not having an intel machine and since the MacBooks are cheap you can find awesome deals on parts machines and fix them just like you can do with powerbooks.Get an intel machine and do what I did save ppc as a serious hobby/collection.
I hear you. However, it's a little more complicated for me. If I absolutely NEEDED one for something right away I would do that, but I'm one of those people that has a specific model in mind and when I buy that's what I'm looking to get.
Fortunately, our tax refund in the new year is always a help, so I will probably pick up what I want then. I'm looking for the A1261. That model is the last 17" MBP that retains the old AlBook style. It can run Mountain Lion and Mavericks and possibly, Yosemite, I don't know. We'll see. But I still love the 17" form factor. I hate the unibodys and if I can get an MBP that has as close a resemblance to my current 17" PB but can run the newest stuff, that's what I'm aiming for.
I don't mean to sound flippant or as if I am disregarding your good advice. I'm not, I'm just letting you know what my plan has been for some time.
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