Just how far can we go?

[Altemose]

Actually, plugin support was deprecated. It's not broken, it's just permanently disabled.

The reason was security. There was a Java malware issue a while back that hit Intel Macs pretty hard, but because T4Fx allowed the use of plugins it also technically made PowerPC Macs vulnerable to attack through the browser.

Cameron Kaiser noted that this actually happened, but because the payload being delivered used Intel specific code it actually didn't affect PowerPC users.

However, Kaiser disabled plugins for later versions of the browser because of that.

And in the end it was the smarter decision. By using extensions we can circumvent it with a far more usable and secure measure...

 

[iMacC2D]

Removed.

 

[2984839]

3 years? What!? isn't The only reason people use PowerPC macs is because they have there old ones left? Why would you buy a PowerPC as your first mac in 2011?!?!? Sure i would have understand if you had bought one in 1994-2006.



Seriously? What? Why did you not get a intel? PowerPC is outdated!!!

Being outdated does not mean it is unsuitable for the tasks we ask of it. GE Canada is planning to stick with PDP-11s until 2050. Why? Because they do what they're asked to do just fine.

This is not to say that my PowerBook can do anything at all that I might ask of it, but I am realistic. I use Dillo for browsing and do Javascript intensive stuff on my MBP. Word processing is easy and email works great. That's pretty much all I use a computer for.

 

[eyoungren]

In 2003, I bought my first daily use Apple computer - an iMac G3/266MHz. A year later, I replaced it with an iMac G3/600MHz, and another year after that, a Power Mac G4/400MHz. As a matter of fact I used a Power Mac G4/733MHz until 2008, when I finally made the switch over to the Intel platform.

My total expenditure in computing over those 5 years was about $400. This was a big deal considering I was only 12 in 2003. Perhaps $450 if you included hardware upgrades and peripheral cards. PowerPC hardware was cheap, sometimes free to purchase. Parts were cheap, software was cheap, running costs weren't bad either.

So, for a relatively small price of admission, I had a machine that could handle a lot of the tasks I threw at it, sometimes admittedly with a little persuasion. I had a machine that I could learn Mac OS on, but most importantly a machine I could learn computer hardware on. If I broke the Logic Board, it was no big deal - I'd head down to the local recyclers and find another board for a few dollars and throw it in.

That's what I still think the appeal is for the PowerPC based Macs. Extremely cheap machines that new users can learn the basics on, do the basics with and get their hands dirty in the inner workings of the machine easily and cheaply.




It comes down to preference. I use Intel based machines now, but I do fondly remember my time using my PowerPC based machines. I use the Intel based machines for the tasks that I absolutely need the extra horsepower for. Outside of all of those mission critical tasks though, I do believe that users can enjoy using one computer over another - they don't simply have to be tools that we feel nothing towards. Some combinations of hardware and software will make someone feel more at home, more comfortable and will be more enjoyable to use.

It's like this upcoming transition from Mavericks to Yosemite on Intel. I'll use Yosemite for the software support, but I'll return to Mavericks (or even Snow Leopard) on my secondary machines because to me, it's what I like. I like the way it looks, the way it works and the way it feels.

For some users, those machines will be PowerPCs. Even if they're using PowerPC for the sake of using PowerPC, then so be it. No pun intended, but more power to them.




Exactly. There's a difference between those of us that see computers as a tool and those of us that use a particular combination of hardware, software and services because it's what we genuinely enjoy using. Those that see a computer purely as a tool will replace a machine every so often and think nothing of it, the rest of us will see things differently and hold on to a machine we like for as long as possible.




I like to think that even as we see a reduction in the number of people that are using PowerPC machines as daily drivers, the community for those that like PowerPC machines as collectors items, project machines and those of us that are PowerPC die-hards will continue to grow, much like we saw with the 68k.

One of the common reasons those collectors are still purchasing 68k based Macs even today is because it gives them the chance to mess around with hardware that they could never have afforded when it was new. Hopefully for the new generation of collectors, these machines will be PowerPC based systems.




One thing I've never understood is why so many people believe that the PowerPC architecture was always inferior simply because the PowerPC fell behind in the later years. Around 2000 or so, my PowerPC 750CXe (G3) driven iMac always outperformed my 1.1GHz Pentium III. The decision to use the PowerPC processor in the early 1990s was a smart one at the time and continued to be viable through until the architecture began to fall behind in later revisions of the G4 and G5. Earlier PowerPC Macs were rather slow, but I would suggest that the lacklustre performance of many early PowerPC 600 based models like the Power Mac and Performa was down to the deficiencies in Apple's motherboard architecture rather than the chips themselves.




As a daily driver, perhaps. For everything else though, if you want a PowerPC Mac and can find one at a reasonable cost, then by all means go ahead and buy it. For most of the computers I own, whether or not it would be usable as a daily machine was never a consideration. Hell, I sunk a few hundred into refurbishing a Macintosh 512Ke, a machine that depends on 800KB floppies and serial for its communications. Using it for any practical task like writing means a round-trip of moving data between machines through obscure and sometimes unreliable means. Having that machine around though, powering it up from time to time and the satisfaction of making it work against the odds more than justifies the cost of admission. At the absolute very least, it's cheap entertainment.

A lot here is my feeling. I don't work on cars, I hate doing that. But I do enjoy working on computers. And I've always wanted to maximize a computer.

I chose my Quicksilver because I like the look of that model the best. To be able to drop in stuff that would have cost me thousands back in the day and get what would have been beyond top of the line BTO is satisfying.

And when you can show it to other PowerPC owners and they get it – that's even better.

 

[bunnspecial]

I've had my Powermac G4 about a month now, and I've had an absolute blast researching, upgrading, and experimenting on it. I have a lot more in it than the $40 I started with, but the experience has been priceless and I've actually learned a whole lot about OSX.

As I said earlier in the thread, my MacBook Pro isn't going away any time soon, but I'm going to continue buying and tinkering with PPC computers as long as they are affordable and available. The supply hasn't dried up yet either, as I manage to get a lot of upgrade parts as "freebies"(I have a big stash of 80gb and larger 7200rpm IDE hard drives that I've culled from boxes and boxes of IDE hard drives that I've spent time sorting through) and these same sources even yield complete systems from time to time.

I could use my G5 as my main computer in a pinch, and it will likely get used for that if my laptop every has to make another extended stay at the Apple store.

And, as for the G4s and older, I get a lot of thrill out of browsing the internet and doing other "modern" stuff out of the. This is especially true with OS9 and Classilla. I'm in my mid-20s, and the G4s also do a great job of running the games I grew up playing(even though I'm not really a big-time gamer)-much better than using Dosbox or Sheepsaver or any of the other emulators I've used. I also like being able to afford the stuff that I only dreamed about back when it was current.

I should also add that the crew here has been GREAT at helping me sort out the ins and outs of what I can do upgrade-wise, and I'm extremely grateful for the help I've received here.

 

[reco2011]

It comes down to preference. I use Intel based machines now, but I do fondly remember my time using my PowerPC based machines. I use the Intel based machines for the tasks that I absolutely need the extra horsepower for. Outside of all of those mission critical tasks though, I do believe that users can enjoy using one computer over another - they don't simply have to be tools that we feel nothing towards. Some combinations of hardware and software will make someone feel more at home, more comfortable and will be more enjoyable to use.

It's like this upcoming transition from Mavericks to Yosemite on Intel. I'll use Yosemite for the software support, but I'll return to Mavericks (or even Snow Leopard) on my secondary machines because to me, it's what I like. I like the way it looks, the way it works and the way it feels.

For some users, those machines will be PowerPCs. Even if they're using PowerPC for the sake of using PowerPC, then so be it. No pun intended, but more power to them.

I can appreciate where you're coming from here. However there's not a whole lot of difference between Mavericks and older generations of OS X. At least not in the way one uses the operating system. Things have changed over time but generally speaking OS X works essentially the same today as it did when OS X 10.0 was released. I have two Macs sitting right next to one another...a single core 1.8GHz G5 and a 2010 Mac Pro. The G5 runs Leopard, the Mac Pro Mavericks. Obviously Mavericks looks a little different than Leopard but the way I interact with the two systems is essentially unchanged. With all that said these differences are operating system related. If I put Snow Leopard on the Mac Pro the two systems would look and behave identically.

With that said I do understand and appreciate the hobbyist aspect of using older equipment. I bought an iBook G3 600MHz with the sole purpose of using it to run Mac OS (not OS X, though it was fun to install OS X 10.1.4 and other older versions of OS X). I just picked up a dual 2.0GHz G5 for $50.00. It was fun to play around with these systems for the few hours I did...even worth the money. However they don't do much of anything because once I "fixed" them I don't have a purpose for them. Perhaps it's different for me as I do have later model systems so they're not my daily drivers.

 

[BJonson]

I bought my Quicksilvers because I thought they look awesome. Don't care how slow they are. I bought my Mac Classics for the same reason and I am using my Mac Classic today for secure files I don't want on the internet and its perfect for that. I got my G5 with Cinema Display because the dude sold it for a lousy $40 and its the last gen one, the dual core one and its awesome. That is why I have mine. I would never use any of them as my main machine, to do so is foolish because you can always get something way faster for the same price. There are tons of computers on craigslist that are faster and people are begging for you to come pick up and get it out of their house.

Look its fun to play around with these old things, brings back memories, makes you laugh at the old programs you used to run, sometimes you can find old files from years ago you have lingering around and that's all great but thats really all these old machines should be used for. My mac classic is a special case because I have sensitive files I don't want anyone looking at and that includes the server admins of all the cloud storage places. You know? So having one machine, off the grid is actually a very good tool for security and if that is what you are using it for like me ANY old mac will suffice.

I am a huge collector of all old stuff from 70s on up. I love having these old machines and I'm tickled to get them in perfect working order. I have spend a few coin doing that but it makes me feel good inside knowing I have classic old machines tucked away, fully upgraded and clean because you know they won't be around forever. Heck if you can boot it up for that one game you used to love then its worth it right there.

Keep your old G4, G5, 68k. Don't sell it, don't give it away, just hold on to it and then get yourself an intel mac and enjoy the speed and new software that is available for you to use and every once in a while glance over at your friend and give him a nod.

Now if you really want the best of both worlds, here is a mini classic I put together.

 

[Altemose]

Today is the first day in about a week that I booted my Intel MacBook Pro. Does it handle the web better? Yes! My big thing is that since my needs aren't changing any time soon, I can happily have my one Intel and a couple of PCs along with my PPCs. The Internet is going to be more of a pig every day, and sloppy code is bringing them to the demise, but until it is unusable, let's keep one using them until they die.

 

[BJonson]

let's keep one using them until they die.

That will never happen. Just replace the capacitors when it dies and get another 20yrs out of it. I did.

 

[Altemose]

That will never happen. Just replace the capacitors when it does and get another 20yrs out of it. I did.

I am talking if a major part fails to the point of no logical repairs. I would probably keep on using them if the board just needed to be rebuilt with fresh capacitors like my iMac G5 project.

 

[MysticCow]

Honestly, mine will keep going until they just can't go another inch. I'll try and fix what I can and replace what I can, but everything has a time when something breaks and it just can't be fixed.

I hope that time is about 10 more years.

 

[Altemose]

Honestly, mine will keep going until they just can't go another inch. I'll try and fix what I can and replace what I can, but everything has a time when something breaks and it just can't be fixed.

I hope that time is about 10 more years.

Provided you don't have a liquid cooled G5 it may be more than 10 years...

 

[MysticCow]

Provided you don't have a liquid cooled G5 it may be more than 10 years...

No my G5 is not one of those! I have two iMac G3's that refuse to quit, a Digital Audio G4 that refuses to quit, and a Dual 2 GHz G5 that can still handle most of my needs.

I only have an i5 Mac mini because it's needed for a couple of items and because it's the guinea pig Mac Pyware uses.

 

[BJonson]

I sent my mac classic II board off to mac caps. That dude did a number on my board. He replaced all the capacitors with new solid caps that won't leak and it came back looking brand new. It only cost $55 plus shipping and it is beautiful. I think it will last longer than the tube display for sure but I have plenty of tubes from other macs so I see this mac lasting longer than me really. Not positive but I think the capacitors are the only point of failure. I also replaced the fan in that classic with a super quiet Noctua fan and its just humming along all quiet and cool.

 

[Intelligent]

I don't think you get it.......
Not only did it sound like he didn't have much money to work with that was what he wanted. So if you want a brand new Intel machine that you will only use for browsing then be my guest go buy one. Its not all about the usability, each PowerPC user has their reasons for holding on to an older generation of machines and I respect that.

Nobody needs you to come in and request that we buy intel.

When did i say i only browse? I edit photos and videos and i play games and so much more.

Just had to ask. If someone is only interested in Intel Macs why do they keep posting in PowerPC Mac forums?

If converting us is your aim then you've failed. If it's telling us about how much better Intel is than PowerPC then you're telling us something we already know. If you're just confused about why we continue to hold on then you don't understand why we are here. If you're here to brag about Intel being better, well done!

You have achieved your objective and we all understand your thoughts about Intel versus PowerPC Macs. Do you have anything else to add to this conversation that will move it forward other than comments about how we all should be using Intel Macs or why we should have bought them and not PowerPC Macs to begin with?

Sigh... Im intrested in PowerPC, i love Apple products so of course I'm here? I love PowerPC, but people say they are just as good and thats a lie. I understand if you bought a PowerPC in, lets say 2003 and you cannot afford an intel, but i dont understand why you would buy a PowerPC in 2014 for daily use. I will keep on discussing PowerPC Macs on this forum because I'm intrested in it.

 

[eyoungren]

Sigh... Im intrested in PowerPC, i love Apple products so of course I'm here? I love PowerPC, but people say they are just as good and thats a lie. I understand if you bought a PowerPC in, lets say 2003 and you cannot afford an intel, but i dont understand why you would buy a PowerPC in 2014 for daily use. I will keep on discussing PowerPC Macs on this forum because I'm intrested in it.

OK. I bought a PowerPC Mac in November of 2013 for the express purpose of being both a Time Machine backup server and serving as my design platform. I'm a Graphic Designer and I use Adobe CC at work (on a MP) with the exception of ID CS4 because I have to stay compatible with my coworker who is using a G5. For the little design I do at home though, CS4, the best my Quicksilver can run works just fine.

The other reason was because I wanted to see how far I could max out my QS. Not something I could ever have done in 2001 without being in a much, much higher income bracket.

Money is the primary reason I stayed and continue to stay on PowerPC. Sure, if I could afford a brand new computer or even a used Intel Mac I would get one. But it's only just recently that the prices on Intel Macs, especially the kind I am looking at, have dropped into the high end of my price range.

My financial situation is such that I have to justify $20-40 or above purchases because that's gas money. Or a good portion of my water bill. But show me the decent Intel Mac that's in that price range right now. Even the broken machines are asking higher prices!

So, while I'd be with you on getting something Intel for my daily driver, it's just not been in my price range to do so. So, PowerPC has still served as my daily driver because of that.

 

[BJonson]

-removed-

 

[Altemose]

I don't want to sound incencitive bro but if you are that broke there are ways to make extra cash. You can hit yard sales every weekend and sell most of the stuff you find on ebay for lots of extra $$. If that is not possible then a lifestyle change or some education might be in order. Nobody should be that broke.

If I got that broke I'd find myself a John.

That was an extremely rude remark and it is not tolerated on this forum. Not everyone has the same financial situation as you or other members of this forum and you have no right to make such a comment. The last time I checked one is supposed to have manners when speaking of others or to others, but I am guessing that just went right out the window in the last twenty years...

I am not going to let another forum member say any insulting remarks towards another, especially one that is as much of a contributing member as Erik. Your post will be reported to the moderators for further review.

 

[eyoungren]

Ah…never mind!

 

[reco2011]

OK. I bought a PowerPC Mac in November of 2013 for the express purpose of being both a Time Machine backup server and serving as my design platform. I'm a Graphic Designer and I use Adobe CC at work (on a MP) with the exception of ID CS4 because I have to stay compatible with my coworker who is using a G5. For the little design I do at home though, CS4, the best my Quicksilver can run works just fine.

The other reason was because I wanted to see how far I could max out my QS. Not something I could ever have done in 2001 without being in a much, much higher income bracket.

Money is the primary reason I stayed and continue to stay on PowerPC. Sure, if I could afford a brand new computer or even a used Intel Mac I would get one. But it's only just recently that the prices on Intel Macs, especially the kind I am looking at, have dropped into the high end of my price range.

My financial situation is such that I have to justify $20-40 or above purchases because that's gas money. Or a good portion of my water bill. But show me the decent Intel Mac that's in that price range right now. Even the broken machines are asking higher prices!

So, while I'd be with you on getting something Intel for my daily driver, it's just not been in my price range to do so. So, PowerPC has still served as my daily driver because of that.

Not trying to change your mind on anything but I bought the following MacBook for $175.00 from Micro Center a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...-13-polycarbonate-unibody-mid-2010-specs.html

It was a clearance system which was in brand new condition.

I also bought the following for $150.00 on Craigs List a few months ago:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.0-black-13-specs.html

This one had the RAM upgraded to 2GB but the HD downgraded to 80GB (I suspect at some point the original HD was removed as the HD tray was not with it either). It has the standard chipping along the edges but otherwise it's in great condition.

Edit:

Micro Center also has three of the following iMacs for $199.00:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_cd_1.83_17.html

And three of the following iMacs for $189.00:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac-core-2-duo-1.83-17-inch-specs.html

The latter being a Core 2 Duo compared to the formers Core Duo.

On Craigs List these early Intel iMacs are going from anywhere between $100.00 - $200.00. In fact some people are asking more for their PPC iMacs.

 

[BJonson]

That was an extremely rude remark and it is not tolerated on this forum. Not everyone has the same financial situation as you or other members of this forum and you have no right to make such a comment. The last time I checked one is supposed to have manners when speaking of others or to others, but I am guessing that just went right out the window in the last twenty years...

I am not going to let another forum member say any insulting remarks towards another, especially one that is as much of a contributing member as Erik. Your post will be reported to the moderators for further review.

Damn, wasn't trying to be rude at all. Was trying to be kind of helpful. Even threw a joke in there at the end. Apologies but I think it just came across wrong.

 

[Altemose]

Not trying to change your mind on anything but I bought the following MacBook for $175.00 from Micro Center a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...-13-polycarbonate-unibody-mid-2010-specs.html

It was a clearance system which was in brand new condition.

I also bought the following for $150.00 on Craigs List a few months ago:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/specs/macbook-core-2-duo-2.0-black-13-specs.html

This one had the RAM upgraded to 2GB but the HD downgraded to 80GB (I suspect at some point the original HD was removed as the HD tray was not with it either). It has the standard chipping along the edges but otherwise it's in great condition.

I am surprised they still had that computer in stock! It has been almost three full years since they stopped making them.

 

[reco2011]

I am surprised they still had that computer in stock! It has been almost three full years since they stopped making them.

They've got three more of them (they're refurbished). But for some reason they're asking $550.00 for each of those.

----------

I don't want to sound incencitive bro but if you are that broke there are ways to make extra cash. You can hit yard sales every weekend and sell most of the stuff you find on ebay for lots of extra $$. If that is not possible then a lifestyle change or some education might be in order. Nobody should be that broke.

If I got that broke I'd find myself a John.

From an outsider looking in it seems Erik could take the money he's spent on fixing / maintaining his older Macs and use it to buy an inexpensive Intel Mac. Again this is not to say what he's doing is wrong. He appears to have a passion for the PPC based Macs. But he did start this thread so just throwing out some options.

 

[eyoungren]

Damn, wasn't trying to be rude at all. Was trying to be kind of helpful. Even threw a joke in there at the end. Apologies but I think it just came across wrong.

It's cool man, no offense taken.

 

[BJonson]

It's cool man, no offense taken.