Just how far can we go?

[Member2010]

browsing

Flash is a pig. What do you do with a pig? You kill it before it gets too fat and uses all your resources (RAM and CPU). Hackintoshes are a big tinkering project....

Not really; it's often the only way to get things done. If you were in the middle of a desert and there was a rusty old pump, but it was the only way to get water, would you use it or would you say, "it's a pig, I don't like it; I refuse to use it"?

It is a shame though that you need that to make it usable. There is no reason you should need that many extensions on top of your customizations when a Pentium 4 piece of junk handles it fine, and your QS has more power.

For sure. Even MacRumors has a lot of extra scripts that the site runs fine without. Few sites are without "sin" in this regard.

All these additional addons and tweaks bring me to a point of compromise between the two. I'm never as fast as I'd love to have in webkit. But I'm never as slow as I would be if I didn't make any of these adjustments. It's a tradeoff I'm comfortable with.

It's interesting you mention that. I've found (informally) that IE, Chrome, and Firefox all render reasonably well, but like you mentioned, it's the customizability-of-the-interface aspect that makes the difference. Chrome has a lousy interface and no customizability. IE has an okay interface and very little customizability. Firefox (prior to version 29) had a lousy interface by default, but plenty of customizability to make it look good.
The interesting thing with it now is that starting with version 29, they really finished swirling it down the toilet. After having been a Firefox "cheerleader" since version 2, I have officially given up on it and transitioned to Pale Moon browser, which is basically a lightened-up, streamlined, good looking version of firefox.

Could you just use the skype app on your phone?

Lol, who even uses skype anymore?

 

[Zotaccian]

Isn't there an open source alternative to Skype which would work across platforms? Skype is the only app of its kind I've used though...

 

[hamis92]

I think Microsoft just killed our version of Skype for PowerPC...

Skype 2.8 still works for me. Granted, I'm using it on Mavericks and I can't test on a PowerPC system right now, but wasn't it supposed to be killed on every platform, not just PPC?

 

[eyoungren]

Could you just use the skype app on your phone?

Sure, but round about the time I FINALLY got an iSight, my purpose for using Skype disappeared!

Not that there is a good chance I'll be video chatting again, Skype is gone from PowerPC. So, it's either my phone (which is fine) or another video chatting app, which means that I have to ask the other person to use that protocol/app. If that person is ok with that then my iSight gets used.If not, it doesn't.

It's a really nice cam, so I'd like to use it!

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Skype 2.8 still works for me. Granted, I'm using it on Mavericks and I can't test on a PowerPC system right now, but wasn't it supposed to be killed on every platform, not just PPC?

I think there is a common misconception here.

MS isn't killing the app. But it is doing two things. It's killing support of the app AND it's preventing signon from any version of the app below 6.x. MS has said it was doing this now, but so far I haven't been unable to login with 2.8.x.

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Not really; it's often the only way to get things done. If you were in the middle of a desert and there was a rusty old pump, but it was the only way to get water, would you use it or would you say, "it's a pig, I don't like it; I refuse to use it"?

The problem with that analogy is that Flash is not the only pump in the desert. Lots and lots of sites over the course of it's lifetime have made it predominant, but it's not the only way to go.

There are plenty of sites that are not Flash-based and can get things done. It's just a matter of changing the direction designers and business are headed in. THAT, is the hard part because Flash is very common and by now an easy go to tool for website creation/design.

 

[TacticalDesire]

I think Microsoft just killed our version of Skype for PowerPC...

That's why I am suggesting using the skype app on his phone instead.

 

[hamis92]

I think there is a common misconception here.

MS isn't killing the app. But it is doing two things. It's killing support of the app AND it's preventing signon from any version of the app below 6.x. MS has said it was doing this now, but so far I haven't been unable to login with 2.8.x.

I understand the situation, I just expressed my confusion regarding Altemose's post that suggested that this kill had just happened and the app wouldn't work anymore which it continues to do, for now

Edit: and by "working" I of course mean being able to sign in and chat with contacts.

 

[Altemose]

I understand the situation, I just expressed my confusion regarding Altemose's post that suggested that this kill had just happened and the app wouldn't work anymore which it continues to do, for now

Edit: and by "working" I of course mean being able to sign in and chat with contacts.

For some reason it is not showing any contacts as online on any PPC while my phone and Intel show it just fine.

 

[128keaton]

Just a small suggestion. I have a MacPro1,1, and right now a fair amount of hacking is required to get the latest OS on it. I know most people here (eyoungren) love PPC for the nostalgia, character, and plain ol 'fun. It isn't PowerPC, but its as close as you are going to get with a more modern machine that can load Sports Illustrated. I know, I know. Boo me out.

 

[jrsx]

I can still log on to Skype on my iBook.. when does MS officially take the servers off-line for PPC?

 

[wobegong]

) or another video chatting app, which means that I have to ask the other person to use that protocol/app. If that person is ok with that...

This is the problem, I can't expect all my contacts to change app just because I can't use it any more lol -typical just as I bring it back into service this happens ! Grrr looks like it's back on tv duty and it's my PC with OpenSuse again - wish I'd just left everything as it was now.....

 

[Altemose]

Not really; it's often the only way to get things done. If you were in the middle of a desert and there was a rusty old pump, but it was the only way to get water, would you use it or would you say, "it's a pig, I don't like it; I refuse to use it"?



For sure. Even MacRumors has a lot of extra scripts that the site runs fine without. Few sites are without "sin" in this regard.



It's interesting you mention that. I've found (informally) that IE, Chrome, and Firefox all render reasonably well, but like you mentioned, it's the customizability-of-the-interface aspect that makes the difference. Chrome has a lousy interface and no customizability. IE has an okay interface and very little customizability. Firefox (prior to version 29) had a lousy interface by default, but plenty of customizability to make it look good.
The interesting thing with it now is that starting with version 29, they really finished swirling it down the toilet. After having been a Firefox "cheerleader" since version 2, I have officially given up on it and transitioned to Pale Moon browser, which is basically a lightened-up, streamlined, good looking version of firefox.



Lol, who even uses skype anymore?

1. I don't understand the analogy. A water pump cannot be a pig the last time I checked. Many use the term "pig" to describe Flash because it uses a lot of system resources to do tasks that could be accomplished with a different method that is lighter. You mean to tell me that a Flash plug in should use a ton of RAM simply to show me a website? That is preposterous.

2. Scripting in and of itself is not a bad thing at all and it makes perfect sense for programmers to use it. I have used it on websites I have worked on many of times. The problem lies with over use of scripts that unnecessarily take system resources.

3. I do not understand why you bring Internet Explorer, Chrome, and Firefox 29+ into the mix. In this thread we are discussing browsers usable on PowerPC Macs. That being said, tell me how you can customize Internet Explorer? I would be led to think that it is Firefox, Chrome, then IE as the least customizable.

4. Many people do. It is an essential tool for many, and a great way to communicate for others.

 

[Hughmac]

Fascinating thread

I've not been to the PPC forum for a while because I have let my 2 x 15" Powerbooks and my Pismo go in favour of a refurb 2013 Macbook Air, but I still have 2 x iMac G5s that I will continue to use as office machines until they die.

The iSight 1.9 is a pig to work inside so if I have to sell one I'll keep the 1.6 as I honestly can't see muach difference in performance.

I'm quite happy using older OS X, and Leopard suits my needs on the iMac and with care without any security issues, using TTF 17 or webkit.

I also have to admit I jumped the gun a little on the Air, because I scored a Dell Mini 10v for £30 and now use that as my main laptop because with Snow Leopard I can still run my PPC apps / games through Rosetta.

Cheers

Hugh

 

[eyoungren]

This is the problem, I can't expect all my contacts to change app just because I can't use it any more lol -typical just as I bring it back into service this happens ! Grrr looks like it's back on tv duty and it's my PC with OpenSuse again - wish I'd just left everything as it was now.....

Exactly!

And it's also the same problem I have with apps on the App store. There's a busload of apps that let you make free calls or free texting, etc. But you have to get your friends and family to install and use them. Talkatone was the only app I could find way back when that would make free calls and texting but not require my 70+ year old parents to own an iPhone or use the app. Even then it leveraged Google Talk. And now that's gone because Google cut off third party apps from using GT!

I knew when MS bought Skype that we'd see something like this sooner or later. Skype was doing just fine and they didn't care what app you were using. MS doesn't lose anything by allowing older Skype versions to use the service.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here I don't like. Planned obsolesence is one thing. But deliberately killing things that are still viable is simply commercialism. Sure business is there to make money and I don't agree that MS should have to support some of their products way past their prime, but this move is simply to push hardward purchases so that you'll run the latest version of Skype. There's no reason for it, simply than that.

It's the same reason Apple cuts us off all the time too and I think Apple should have a longer lead time on that, but at least in this case it wasn't costing MS anything to continue allowing logins of older Skype versions.

 

[Member2010]

voice

The problem with that analogy is that Flash is not the only pump in the desert. Lots and lots of sites over the course of it's lifetime have made it predominant, but it's not the only way to go.

There are plenty of sites that are not Flash-based and can get things done. It's just a matter of changing the direction designers and business are headed in. THAT, is the hard part because Flash is very common and by now an easy go to tool for website creation/design.

The alternative is script-heavy, unbearable-to-use sites. Sports Illustrated was already mentioned in this thread, but Google sites are a big culprit too.

1. I don't understand the analogy. A water pump cannot be a pig the last time I checked. Many use the term "pig" to describe Flash because it uses a lot of system resources to do tasks that could be accomplished with a different method that is lighter. You mean to tell me that a Flash plug in should use a ton of RAM simply to show me a website? That is preposterous.

2. Scripting in and of itself is not a bad thing at all and it makes perfect sense for programmers to use it. I have used it on websites I have worked on many of times. The problem lies with over use of scripts that unnecessarily take system resources.

Neither [a pig nor a water pump] can a useful web media tool last time I checked either. Flash doesn't actually use that many resources, and it takes a lot more graphical goodness happening inside it to bring your computer down than a javascript and html5-heavy website. Of course, websites that don't need to slam you with multimedia shouldn't need flash or a crap-ton of scripts...

3. I do not understand why you bring Internet Explorer, Chrome, and Firefox 29+ into the mix. In this thread we are discussing browsers usable on PowerPC Macs. That being said, tell me how you can customize Internet Explorer? I would be led to think that it is Firefox, Chrome, then IE as the least customizable.

I brought those up in the general discussion of Firefox as I was giving its personal eulogy while we were talking about its down-toilet spiral.

4. Many people do. It is an essential tool for many, and a great way to communicate for others.

I never knew it was still that popular; I know I haven't used it since before the whole Microsoft thing. Are cell phone minutes really that expensive though?

Exactly!

And it's also the same problem I have with apps on the App store. There's a busload of apps that let you make free calls or free texting, etc. But you have to get your friends and family to install and use them. Talkatone was the only app I could find way back when that would make free calls and texting but not require my 70+ year old parents to own an iPhone or use the app. Even then it leveraged Google Talk. And now that's gone because Google cut off third party apps from using GT!...

Didn't they fix TalkATone recently so it doesn't rely on the now-discontinued Google Voice?

 

[eyoungren]

I never knew it was still that popular; I know I haven't used it since before the whole Microsoft thing. Are cell phone minutes really that expensive though?

No, but it's a matter of practicality. Let me cite two examples…

1. I have a friend in London, England. He has Skype. For awhile we Skyped and got both voice and video and it was good. We've since ceased Skyping, but now if we wanted to pick it back up MS would prevent me from connecting. When we started Skyping I didn't have an iPhone 5.

Calling him to do this is not an option. He doesn't have the greatest phone, there won't be video and I'm going to pay big for international minutes. Now of course, I can use my phone to Skype, but it's not quite the same as being at your Mac with a webcam.

2. I may have mentioned that I like RPGs (think Dungeons & Dragons). Skype is perfect for this if you have friends who can't be local. An average night of gaming can go anywhere from 4 to 6 hours or more. I'm not holding my phone that entire time for Skype and I certainly don't want to tie my phone up on cellular. I've got a family plan with 1500 minutes shared, but I really don't want to use that much time at once.

Lastly, Skype for this long over the iPhone is problematic because I also need to be doing things like making notes, rolling dice, looking things up in game books, etc. Further, if you're like me you like to create settings. Music, based on what's happening is playing in the background. Easy to pickup with the web cam, not so much with a phone.

In short, not every use of Skype is just a straight up phone call.

Didn't they fix TalkATone recently so it doesn't rely on the now-discontinued Google Voice?

They did. They are using their own servers. But guess what? You have to get a Talkatone phone number. So, now I'd have three numbers! My iPhone, GV and a Talkatone number.

Since I don't use Google Voice overly much and Talkatone was the reason for using it anyway, I checked out at this point.

 

[128keaton]

No, but it's a matter of practicality. Let me cite two examples…

1. I have a friend in London, England. He has Skype. For awhile we Skyped and got both voice and video and it was good. We've since ceased Skyping, but now if we wanted to pick it back up MS would prevent me from connecting. When we started Skyping I didn't have an iPhone 5.

Calling him to do this is not an option. He doesn't have the greatest phone, there won't be video and I'm going to pay big for international minutes. Now of course, I can use my phone to Skype, but it's not quite the same as being at your Mac with a webcam.

2. I may have mentioned that I like RPGs (think Dungeons & Dragons). Skype is perfect for this if you have friends who can't be local. An average night of gaming can go anywhere from 4 to 6 hours or more. I'm not holding my phone that entire time for Skype and I certainly don't want to tie my phone up on cellular. I've got a family plan with 1500 minutes shared, but I really don't want to use that much time at once.

Lastly, Skype for this long over the iPhone is problematic because I also need to be doing things like making notes, rolling dice, looking things up in game books, etc. Further, if you're like me you like to create settings. Music, based on what's happening is playing in the background. Easy to pickup with the web cam, not so much with a phone.

In short, not every use of Skype is just a straight up phone call.


They did. They are using their own servers. But guess what? You have to get a Talkatone phone number. So, now I'd have three numbers! My iPhone, GV and a Talkatone number.

Since I don't use Google Voice overly much and Talkatone was the reason for using it anyway, I checked out at this point.

Actually, I find that TeamSpeak is preferred for RPGs, due to push-to-talk and what not. Its simpler, allows you to host your own server (really easy!) and is compatible with PowerPC (I set up a music bot for a server using a G5, lol). The only downside is that it doesn't have video support. Also, eyoungren, do you mind posting some pictures taken using the iSight? I've wanted one for ages, just didn't know how good they were.

 

[eyoungren]

Actually, I find that TeamSpeak is preferred for RPGs, due to push-to-talk and what not. Its simpler, allows you to host your own server (really easy!) and is compatible with PowerPC (I set up a music bot for a server using a G5, lol). The only downside is that it doesn't have video support. Also, eyoungren, do you mind posting some pictures taken using the iSight? I've wanted one for ages, just didn't know how good they were.

Yeah, TeamSpeak would be great, but don't misunderstand…that's mainly an online MMPRPG type thing. What I'm referring to is the classic pencil, dice, paper, Dungeon Master and a couple of players. But if you mean TeamSpeak for that, it's something to try. I'd prefer video though as it makes it easier to communicate certain concepts.

As to the iSight, I will see about gettting some pictures later tonight. I've only used it for video and it's hooked up to the QS at the moment. I've got a second one though so I'll try with that.

 

[Altemose]

The alternative is script-heavy, unbearable-to-use sites. Sports Illustrated was already mentioned in this thread, but Google sites are a big culprit too.



Neither [a pig nor a water pump] can a useful web media tool last time I checked either. Flash doesn't actually use that many resources, and it takes a lot more graphical goodness happening inside it to bring your computer down than a javascript and html5-heavy website. Of course, websites that don't need to slam you with multimedia shouldn't need flash or a crap-ton of scripts...



I brought those up in the general discussion of Firefox as I was giving its personal eulogy while we were talking about its down-toilet spiral.



I never knew it was still that popular; I know I haven't used it since before the whole Microsoft thing. Are cell phone minutes really that expensive though?



Didn't they fix TalkATone recently so it doesn't rely on the now-discontinued Google Voice?

My problem with the current web of more animations for less information is that it doesn't have to be that way. In 2000 nobody complained that the web isn't flashy enough? The used is a resource, like an encyclopedia to simply get information or entertainment. Why do I need to see blinking ads, popups, automatically playing videos I don't want to see, falsifying links, and a bunch of background junk when I could get a page of text with a nice background and some pictures?

 

[128keaton]

Yeah, TeamSpeak would be great, but don't misunderstand…that's mainly an online MMPRPG type thing. What I'm referring to is the classic pencil, dice, paper, Dungeon Master and a couple of players. But if you mean TeamSpeak for that, it's something to try. I'd prefer video though as it makes it easier to communicate certain concepts.

As to the iSight, I will see about gettting some pictures later tonight. I've only used it for video and it's hooked up to the QS at the moment. I've got a second one though so I'll try with that.

Hmm. Yeah, I was saying that you should hook up a G4 and run a TS server on it, just to try it out. Thanks for the photos, would you recommend an iSight tho? Found one for $5.

 

[eyoungren]

Hmm. Yeah, I was saying that you should hook up a G4 and run a TS server on it, just to try it out. Thanks for the photos, would you recommend an iSight tho? Found one for $5.

OH, I see! Thanks for the suggestion!

I would highly recommend an iSight. They have good quality and unlike USB webcams they do not hit your CPU.

I have a USB webcam (IceCam). Thing is a POS. With Skype it hit 90-100% CPU. My friend on the other side often reported that my cam feed had frozen and that audio was choppy. On top of that it had no lighting adustment. In order to work right I was using a desk lamp and basically shining it in my own face!

The iSight does none of that and CPU use is totally normal. A big part of that is because it's firewire.

 

[128keaton]

OH, I see! Thanks for the suggestion!

I would highly recommend an iSight. They have good quality and unlike USB webcams they do not hit your CPU.

I have a USB webcam (IceCam). Thing is a POS. With Skype it hit 90-100% CPU. My friend on the other side often reported that my cam feed had frozen and that audio was choppy. On top of that it had no lighting adustment. In order to work right I was using a desk lamp and basically shining it in my own face!

The iSight does none of that and CPU use is totally normal. A big part of that is because it's firewire.

Sweet! I guess for $6 I cannot go wrong.

 

[Altemose]

Sweet! I guess for $6 I cannot go wrong.

It is pretty hard to go wrong with any Apple gear for $6.00! Just today I got an AirPort Express for $5.00. Since my PowerMac only has Ethernet, and I don't bother with wireless cards, I bought it to act as a wireless adapter. It works great!

 

[Ih8reno]

It is pretty hard to go wrong with any Apple gear for $6.00! Just today I got an AirPort Express for $5.00. Since my PowerMac only has Ethernet, and I don't bother with wireless cards, I bought it to act as a wireless adapter. It works great!

Sorry to chime in here but how do you do that? Is it with the original one? If so I can get one for $5 in my area and this would be great to try with my power pc's. Oh, my home network isn't from an apple router if that makes any difference.

 

[Altemose]

Just how far can we go?

Sorry to chime in here but how do you do that? Is it with the original one? If so I can get one for $5 in my area and this would be great to try with my power pc's. Oh, my home network isn't from an apple router if that makes any difference.

Well an AirPort can join the existing network with any router. That let's you plug in a printer to share, speakers for AirPlay, and the Ethernet port can be used to plug in a computer. Currently I have a Linksys WRT54 that was essentially acting as a wireless adapter for my PowerMac. The Linksys isn't perfect and for $5.00 for a working solution I can't complain.

It was a bit dirty and untested. Some 91% isopropyl alcohol cleaned it up and there are only 4 scratches on the unit. I can't complain and it just works.

 

[rjcalifornia]

Skype? Well, I'm not having issues with Skype. Just made a call. Does it apply only to US skype?