Just ordered 27 inch iMac having second thoughts

[Squirkytunkle]

As you are already in doubt then it seems likely that you could regret your choice if a new model is released soon. If a new model doesnt come in October then lt's not likely we will see one till 2019.

I do agree with everyone regarding the SSD. I concur returning it for that alone.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[carbontune]

I bought a new one 3 weeks ago and glad I did. If a new one comes out, so what. Stop second guessing Apple.

I did get the 512GB SSD though.

I bought a new one 3 weeks ago too. Loving it! I did call Apple and if a new iMac happens to come out in the next couple of weeks then they _may_ consider exchanging my 2017 iMac for the new model but I think the time window is closing rapidly. Having said that, I've spent three weeks getting my iMac working exactly as I want it to so I'm not that bothered now.

 

[smirk]

I'm curious why everyone is recommending spending so much extra money on getting a dedicated SSD. Is it _that_ noticeable a speed increase over a fusion drive? I mean, with fusion your OS and apps would migrate to the SSD portion, so the only difference would be accessing data, right?

 

[Glmnet1]

I bought a new one 3 weeks ago and glad I did. If a new one comes out, so what. Stop second guessing Apple.

I did get the 512GB SSD though.

So we should stop second guessing Apple and just blindly buy anything they sell? Oh great I'll order a bunch of 2014 Mac Mini right away! And a few 2013 Mac Pro while I'm at it.

 

[Glmnet1]

I'm curious why everyone is recommending spending so much extra money on getting a dedicated SSD. Is it _that_ noticeable a speed increase over a fusion drive? I mean, with fusion your OS and apps would migrate to the SSD portion, so the only difference would be accessing data, right?

Here are some of the advantages I see of getting pure SSD in an iMac:
- One less part that can break in an hard to repair AIO computer.
- Better performance (especially compared to the 1TB Fusion)
- Less noise
- Less heat (not much but still)
- Knowing that you don't have an old and somewhat obsolete technology inside your new and expensive computer

And it's not that expensive anymore to go pure SSD, even with Apple's prices. 512gb SSD is the same price as a 3TB Fusion. Then all you need to do is buy a cheap external 3TB for less than a $100 if you need more storage. Compared to the i7 upgrade at $300 and I'd say it's quite a cheap upgrade for what you're getting.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

Well smirk you just imagine how much a 512GB SSD is compared to a 24GB!!!

 

[tarsins]

It's a superb machine but. as many people have suggested. a fusion drive will only cripple it - get the biggest SSD you can afford.

 

[294307]

It's a superb machine but. as many people have suggested. a fusion drive will only cripple it - get the biggest SSD you can afford.

Oh, not another one. So I take it you've used a Fusion Drive system and you've had a terrible experience from day one? And if that's the case, why is it then that a lot of us have never experienced this "crippled" user experience with a Fusion Drive system?

My 2017 iMac is well over a year old now, has a 1 TB Fusion Drive and I use it for software development. I have a 13-inch MacBook Pro at work so I know what an SSD only system feels like to use. For a lot of workflows, the difference is not as remarkable as people pretend it is.

 

[SkiHound2]

Oh, not another one. So I take it you've used a Fusion Drive system and you've had a terrible experience from day one? And if that's the case, why is it then that a lot of us have never experienced this "crippled" user experience with a Fusion Drive system?

My 2017 iMac is well over a year old now, has a 1 TB Fusion Drive and I use it for software development. I have a 13-inch MacBook Pro at work so I know what an SSD only system feels like to use. For a lot of workflows, the difference is not as remarkable as people pretend it is.

I agree that fusion drives generally work well for most everyday uses. I have an old 2012 mini with 1 TB fusion drive. At that time these had 128gb SSD. It boots nearly as quickly as 2017 27" imac (I've used them). I've not doubt that for some tasks a pure ssd would be better. Pure SSD also have the advantage of not having any mechanical parts, generating a little less heat, making less noise, etc. So I think a pure SSD is desirable, but the fusion drives are not trash and work pretty well for most users.

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

Yes I have in a late 2013 and the difference is remarkable.

 

[AlexMaximus]

Cancel and switch to as big an SSD as you can afford. Yes 8gb of ram is smart.

THIS!

 

[Malus120]

I'll try to make this as quick as possible.

I think you should return the machine, although feel free wait until the 13th day of the return period to ask for a return (at which point you'll have another seven days to actually return it).

The reason is simple, regardless of whether Apple is taking way too long on the 2018 iMacs (they are), you're on the wrong side of a major shift in X86 CPU technology. The jump from 4 cores to 6-8 cores at the high end is huge, resulting in CPU performance increases as high as 50-100%, easily the single largest generational increase in CPU performance in a decade. For reference, my 2018 13" rMBP is 4C/8T. Sure, the iMac's peak clock-speed is significantly faster, but the fact that they're even in the same league is just silly.

Lots of people will try and ask about your use case and say "blah blah blah, you don't need it, blah blah blah, you won't notice it," but the reality is you damn well will notice it over time, and if you're spending >$3000 (hell even >$2000) on a new machine you shouldn't be settling for 2016 technology at that kind of price.

Now, if for whatever reason you can't wait, well then you can't wait, but given that the release SHOULD be just around the corner I'd generally advise that where there's a will there's a way.

Best of luck on your decision.

 

[pl1984]

I'm curious why everyone is recommending spending so much extra money on getting a dedicated SSD. Is it _that_ noticeable a speed increase over a fusion drive? I mean, with fusion your OS and apps would migrate to the SSD portion, so the only difference would be accessing data, right?

It's been my experience the benefit, for many users, of an SSD is not that significant. Those recommending an SSD solution often cite faster boot and application launch times which results in a more responsive system. For that I agree with them. The question is: What percentage of a typical workflow is booting and launching applications? For many users it's a negligible amount.

This is not to say that I do not prefer SSDs over tradition (or fusion type) hard drives. However the cost / gigabyte for the larger capacity drives can be considerably higher than traditional media. If they were similar I would choose the SSD every time. At $100 a 512GB SSD seems reasonably priced and I would choose it over the i7 upgrade.

When making these types of decisions it's important to know the workload so one can make informed choices. Unfortunately if your needs change Apple's current products make it difficult or impossible to change after the sale.

 

[hassel]

If Apple does come out with new iMacs this year then the price is likely to go up too as it did with the books.

In an ideal world we would all be rocking on maxed out iMac pros but we all have different budgets and needs.

 

[smirk]

The jump from 4 cores to 6-8 cores at the high end is huge, resulting in CPU performance increases as high as 50-100%, easily the single largest generational increase in CPU performance in a decade.

Keep in mind that the performance increase will only be felt with multi-threaded apps, and likely only with those that can use the extra cores.

 

[Malus120]

Keep in mind that the performance increase will only be felt with multi-threaded apps, and likely only with those that can use the extra cores.

This is of course very true. Apps that are only single or lightly threaded will, individually see much smaller, if any gains. I won't deny 4C/8T is still very much a "sweet spot" today for many things performance wise (I love my 13" 2018 rMBP for example), it's just that it's now a budget/low power sweet spot, and has no place in a $3000 desktop computer. Furthermore,

1. With 6 and 8 core machines becoming (having become the) desktop mainstream, and AMD rumored to be pushing core counts even higher next year, an increasing number of apps will begin to be optimized to utilize more than 2-4 cores. If you're buying a machine today with the long run in mind, more cores is the smart buy IMHO.
2. Even when using applications that are only really maxing 1-4 cores/threads, having more cores keeps the OS/other applications running smoothly without slowing down or disrupting your primary task.
3. With the proliferation of smartphones and tablets for media consumption / simple usage, most people are doing more than one thing with their computer, the more you're doing at once, the more useful having more cores becomes.
4. As the OP said this is a family computer, that implies that it will likely face a wide and ever changing variety of use cases. Unless it just ends up collecting dust (a sad but very real possibility in 2018,) I don't think it's unreasonable to think that someone, at some point, will throw something at it that can utilize 6+ cores.

To elaborate a little bit more. I loved my 2014 5K iMac (4Ghz/4.4Ghz Turbo i7 4790K/M295X), it was super fast and a joy to use, such that part of me still regrets selling it. But if I still had it it would be approaching FOUR years old and yet, honestly speaking, in the CPU department, the machine OP JUST purchased isn't all that far off from a machine I bought back in October of 2014! Sure, the GPU/RAM/IO improved but, if it were my money, I'd certainly be voting (and have voted) with my wallet.

 

[smirk]

Those are good points. I've always tried to spend my money on the things that can't later be upgraded, like the CPU. You can always add more RAM, and you can also change out the drives -- yes, it involves opening up the iMac but if you take your time it's not all that difficult.

The one time that this didn't work out for me was when I splurged for the upgraded GPU in my 2011 iMac; I paid extra to get the maxed out card with extra video RAM. My thinking was that maybe some day in the future, OS X would do even more GUI hardware rendering and it might use more video RAM. That was pretty much wasted money.

 

[Fried Chicken]

I was just playing with build options if I were to buy an iMac now.

Basically the conclusion I reached was that I’d definitely wait until the next mac event.
If I *had* to buy an iMac now, I’d get the $2300 configuration, adding the magic trackpad.
Then I’d upgrade the SSD myself (maybe pay some guy to do it) with a 2TB SSD, and add more RAM.

 

[turbocamel]

4. As the OP said this is a family computer, that implies that it will likely face a wide and ever changing variety of use cases. Unless it just ends up collecting dust (a sad but very real possibility in 2018,) I don't think it's unreasonable to think that someone, at some point, will throw something at it that can utilize 6+ cores.

To elaborate a little bit more. I loved my 2014 5K iMac (4Ghz/4.4Ghz Turbo i7 4790K/M295X), it was super fast and a joy to use, such that part of me still regrets selling it. But if I still had it it would be approaching FOUR years old and yet, honestly speaking, in the CPU department, the machine OP JUST purchased isn't all that far off from a machine I bought back in October of 2014! Sure, the GPU/RAM/IO improved but, if it were my money, I'd certainly be voting (and have voted) with my wallet.

I def appreciate everyone’s thoughts and comments.

Tbh as I mentioned it’s a family computer, my wife has 2 work computers she uses on and off the clock. I have my old mbp 2.26 c2d which is ancient and will soon be upgraded to a 15 mbp with touchpad.

Years ago when I was a computer engineer I would spend ridiculous amounts of time on the comp, on sites like this one etc. Since then a lot has changed, my trusty laptop has been by my side, took me thru medical school and residency and now needs to be retired.

My 8 year old needs a computer to do school work on.
I need a replacement plex media server.
I need a new machine to organize all my digital media.
Photoshop and image editing
Not really into video editing as of yet.
I agree the 512ssd is best for speediness I’ll see how this computer feels when it arrives tomorrow.

8gb is terribly low as a default this day and age, but I can’t justify paying apple $200 for 16gb when I can upgrade it to 32gb myself for like $300.

The harddrive upgradability seems kinda ridiculous, doable but truly absurd.

I’m really disappointed in the fact that it’s still 4 core. And the iMac pro is $2,000 more.

If I really have 14 days to return, someone had mentioned I have an additional 7 days to actually return? I feel like there may be an event on the 23rd.

 

[Hater]

If you buy an SSD-only machine, you get the NVMe port on the logic board and nothing else.

If you get a Fusion drive, you get the NVMe and a SATA connection on the board.

Buying a Fusion drive now gives you the option in the future to run a 1TB, 2TB, 4TB, 8TB (however big future NVMe drives get) AS WELL as a seperate big 'ol SATA HDD... SSD or HDD, really.

You can decouple the "Fusion drive" and run it as two separate drives if you want, keeping a slower mechanical HDD for storage if you so chose.... or run them in Fusion and let the file system decide which files are on the fast bit and which parts are on the slower.

If you start with an SSD machine from the get go, you're somewhat limited when it comes to expandability.

Can use Thunderbolt external drives if you want, but you've bought a svelte iMac... they're a bit clunky and bulky compared to a nice clean internal solution

 

[Malus120]

I def appreciate everyone’s thoughts and comments.

Tbh as I mentioned it’s a family computer, my wife has 2 work computers she uses on and off the clock. I have my old mbp 2.26 c2d which is ancient and will soon be upgraded to a 15 mbp with touchpad.

Years ago when I was a computer engineer I would spend ridiculous amounts of time on the comp, on sites like this one etc. Since then a lot has changed, my trusty laptop has been by my side, took me thru medical school and residency and now needs to be retired.

My 8 year old needs a computer to do school work on.
I need a replacement plex media server.
I need a new machine to organize all my digital media.
Photoshop and image editing
Not really into video editing as of yet.
I agree the 512ssd is best for speediness I’ll see how this computer feels when it arrives tomorrow.

8gb is terribly low as a default this day and age, but I can’t justify paying apple $200 for 16gb when I can upgrade it to 32gb myself for like $300.

The harddrive upgradability seems kinda ridiculous, doable but truly absurd.

I’m really disappointed in the fact that it’s still 4 core. And the iMac pro is $2,000 more.

If I really have 14 days to return, someone had mentioned I have an additional 7 days to actually return? I feel like there may be an event on the 23rd.

Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you need / want. Trust your gut on the whole "really disappointed in the fact that it’s still 4 core," aspect, in 2018 its not just disappointing, it should be disqualifying for that much money.

A few more quick thoughts...
1. The 3TB Fusion vs 512GB SSD is a hard choice for your use case. On the one hand, the 512GB will be undeniably faster, but with 3+ people using the computer, the lack of storage space could start to chafe, and training others to use an external HDD for media storage could be a chore.
2. I really wound't make a decision based on being able to "upgrade" the HDD/SSD later. It's just too risky (IMHO) when external USB C/Thunderbolt 3 SSD/HDD storage can get the job done just as well.
3. Plex + Image editing + digital media organizer + other tasks = I'd wait for more cores

As for the additional seven days allowed between requesting the return and arrival at an Apple facility, that was me who mentioned it but I may have spoke too soon. I'm currently outside the US, and while that is Apple's return policy for where I am, a quick glance at the US page suggests that may not be the case. I'd advise a quick call with Apple where you nonchalantly mention that you're thinking of returning your iMac and want to know if the 14 days includes shipment.

Either way, Apple's (US) site does state that "You have 14 calendar days to return an item from the date you received it," so that should just about get you to the 10/23 if you're receiving it tomorrow.

 

[pl1984]

Since it's already on its way you may as well take advantage of the 14 day trial period. Personally I think what you've ordered is more than sufficient for your needs but if something new is announced at the same price it would make sense to return the current system and get the new one.

 

[Fried Chicken]

I def appreciate everyone’s thoughts and comments.
[snip]
The harddrive upgradability seems kinda ridiculous, doable but truly absurd.

[snip]

I would go to an independent Apple shop and see if they will do it for you for 100 bucks or something. SSD prices are plummeting, so paying the apple tax is stupid. Then you can resell the 128GB stick on ebay for like $100.

 

[mreg376]

It's a superb machine but. as many people have suggested. a fusion drive will only cripple it - get the biggest SSD you can afford.

That's simply not true. I also think an SSD is far better than a fusion drive, but a fusion drive will certainly NOT cripple a new iMac. This is where the usage of the machine is important. A 3TB fusion drive, for example, provides tons of storage, excellent performance for probably 90% of users, and avoids having to futz with an external drive for a long time, if not for the entire life of the machine. While I would not recommend a fusion drive generally, if someone has concerns about costs and has the need for inexpensive convenient storage they, depending on their usage, might be perfectly happy with a fusion drive iMac. It just might be that the biggest SSD someone can afford will not be the size drive they need.

 

[hassel]

Since it's already on its way you may as well take advantage of the 14 day trial period. Personally I think what you've ordered is more than sufficient for your needs but if something new is announced at the same price it would make sense to return the current system and get the new one.

Apple is not going to sell new i9 2018 imacs at the same price as 2017 models, the price will increase so anyone on a budget ought to note that.
They did it with macbooks last time.