Just took my son for his first visit to Hooters!

[jsw]

I am stunned that this thread continues to grow, especially stunned that so many people have such strong opposition to a restaurant where women wear tight clothing but expose much less than you'd see on a public beach.

But, hey, I suppose we really need to worry about such things because, you know, it's not like there are more important evils or issues to concern ourselves with.

 

[bousozoku]

Have refrained from contributing to this classy thread so far... but, they have an airline?!

Don't tell me, surely they must have a business class.

I'm sure it's quite class-less. When they first announced the airline, I was going to attempt to modify a Boeing airplane to fit the audience. You can imagine the finished product.

 

[Xtremehkr]

I'm sure it's quite class-less. When they first announced the airline, I was going to attempt to modify a Boeing airplane to fit the audience. You can imagine the finished product.

Your disdain for this service confuses me. Do you think that Hooters consumers come from a single class of people?

Do you think that you are being somewhat judgmental?

 

[macbaseball]

Your disdain for this service confuses me. Do you think that Hooters consumers come from a single class of people?

Do you think that you are being somewhat judgmental?

I'm assuming he meant that all the seats are in the same class - there is no first and there is no coach. They just treat all their passengers well. That's how I interpreted it.

 

[Xtremehkr]

I'm assuming he meant that all the seats are in the same class - there is no first and there is no coach. They just treat all their passengers well. That's how I interpreted it.

Than I apologize for what I said. If that is the case. I meant no malevolence at all.

 

[Lacero]

I hate it when people politicize their views. If the son had fun at the restaurant, the staff courteous and friendly, the food good and the atmosphere inviting, I don't see the big eff'n deal.

 

[beatle888]

i hate overly uptight people. they all need a good....time.

loosen up you bunch of freaken hard up nerd bags. i bet you would have a problem with a sixteen year old who was developed and experienced and wanting to blow your mind like never before. jesus the borgs are among us.



i think the uptight ones are the scary ones. the loose ones are just open and honest with their sexuality. shame shame shame.

 

[BakedBeans]

Come on fella's, you all knew what the response was going to be to this thread. Some members are so far stuck up there own anus that you get the same "I'm looking down from you from on high" crap in every thread that they find the can worm into, it would be better if they stopped the righteous indignation and actually used the threads they enjoy looking at instead of trying to belittle people who make spelling mistakes or people that take their boy to hooters (which really is harmless).

As for 'its not a very good restaurant", well is McDonalds? but i bet enough of them scoff those. Do you expect people to fine dine every time they go out? GOD DAMN IT! some people just want to see some boobs with their burger.... whats the problem, if you dont like it stay away, i do.

Anyway, glad your lad ha a good time, I personally would have left it would have left it a few years until he could fully...... 'appreciate'...... the service .

 

[bousozoku]

I'm assuming he meant that all the seats are in the same class - there is no first and there is no coach. They just treat all their passengers well. That's how I interpreted it.

Exactly. Everything would be like the restaurant.

class-less vs. classless

 

[Blue Velvet]

Come on fella's, you all knew what the response was going to be to this thread. Some members are so far stuck up there own anus that you get the same "I'm looking down from you from on high" crap in every thread that they find the can worm into, it would be better if they stopped the righteous indignation and actually used the threads they enjoy looking at instead of trying to belittle people who make spelling mistakes or people that take their boy to hooters (which really is harmless).

It's a forum -- people are allowed to express their views where they want and how they want within the terms and conditions.

Interesting to note that no-one has actually engaged with Brize's argument or addressed the issues he's raised -- maybe it's put them off their food.

My views are decidedly mixed. I couldn't care less what restaurant people go to, consenting adults and all that, but the issue here is whether this was an appropriate venue for a 6-year old, especially as the OP is a youth minister. I would argue not... not because there's anything particularly prudish or somehow self-righteous about me but I would ask this of you:

Would you be happy if your 6 year old was taken by a member of the family to a venue such as this without your knowledge or consent?

If I had a six year old, I would be slightly concerned if a member of my family took them to a 13-rated movie or even some pubs... that's the kind of issue I believe it to be. That's all...

 

[BakedBeans]

It's a forum -- people are allowed to express their views where they want and how they want within the terms and conditions.

Of course it is, however its getting to be nearly every thread has some kind of belittlement from someone. It is a place for everyones opinions, not for someone to share an opinion and be told they shouldnt have dont this, that or the other.

Interesting to note that no-one has actually engaged with Brize's argument or addressed the issues he's raised -- maybe it's put them off their food.

What issues? i cant see an issue, i really cannot. Its not a strip joint, its not a whore house, its a freakin restaurant. What possible harm would come to a child that wont be interested in what the girls look like?

Would you be happy if your 6 year old was taken by a member of the family to a venue such as this without your knowledge or consent?

Well as a father, I dont let my son got with anyone anywhere without my consent. But i would take him there myself or let him go there if i knew he was safe.

Its almost as though people seem to think he will have some psychological damage by going there, or that it will teach him women are sex objects, which would be ridiculous to suggest.

If I had a six year old, I would be slightly concerned if a member of my family took them to a 13-rated movie or even some pubs... that's the kind of issue I believe it to be. That's all...

I wouldnt have my child in a pub, no chance. Its far worse to take a child into a pub than to a place like hooters. I hate censoring children, I've always been the judge of who censors my child, not a movie rating board or things like that. People thin they are protecting them from something but they just learn it in the wrong way.

A serious question, WHY do you think its a bad thing to take a child there. which reasons? (effects on the child, degrading to women etc.)

 

[HydroMan]

GOD DAMN IT! some people just want to see some boobs with their burger.... whats the problem,.....

Ha Ha Ha HA! that is classic, thanks for nearly making me choke whilst drinking my coffee .

 

[mactastic]

Would you be happy if your 6 year old was taken by a member of the family to a venue such as this without your knowledge or consent?

If I had a six year old, I would be slightly concerned if a member of my family took them to a 13-rated movie or even some pubs... that's the kind of issue I believe it to be. That's all...

Yeah, the thing that stood out most to me was that his wife obviously disapproved, he obviously knew she would, and the OP did it behind her back anyway.

I could care less about boobs or kids seeing women in skimpy clothing. It's no worse than what they'll see at the beach or on TV for that matter. I don't think it's going to harm them. But sneaking off to take your kid to a place you KNOW your wife doesn't agree with... that sticks in my craw.

 

[Brize]

It's disappointing that those same people who criticise members for 'belittling' others attempt to do exactly that by lobbing insults, yet fail to properly engage with the issue at hand. Further, accusing others of 'righteous indignation' (which would indicate a position based on morality, rather than reason) is wholly contradictory when the accuser offers opinion based solely on their own moral code. On a general note, what's the point of a discussion forum if people aren't prepared to engage in meaningful discussion?

For the record, I have no problem with adults that want to visit restaurants like Hooters; I'm not a puritan, and nor do I subscribe to conventional morality. Hooters isn't for me though, for the same reason that I've always avoided strip clubs: because customers are paying for other human beings to express their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with this per se, but to my mind, commoditising sexuality completely undermines its intrinsic value.

What sets Hooters apart from other restaurants is that in addition to paying for food and drink, you're paying for the waitresses to express their sexuality through their clothing, body language and mode of engagement. You're also paying for low-level sexual interaction with your waitress: you're allowed to look at her body, flirt with her, make innuendo with her, etc., and the waitress is obliged by the terms and conditions of her employment to at least indicate that your advances are not unwelcome. (If you're under any illusions about this, read the Hooters Employee Handbook posted earlier in the thread.)

Again, there's nothing wrong with this when both parties are able and willing to consent: I'm not passing judgement on the women who work at Hooters, or the customers who choose to dine there. However, it's important to recognise that this arrangement is mediated by a complex set of social regulations, which is precisely what makes it acceptable. The problem is that a six-year-old child will invariably be too young to understand the complexities of this arrangement and the context within which it operates.

 

[BakedBeans]

It's disappointing that those same people who criticise members for 'belittling' others attempt to do exactly that by lobbing insults, yet fail to properly engage with the issue at hand. Further, accusing others of 'righteous indignation' (which would indicate a position based on morality, rather than reason) is wholly contradictory when the accuser offers opinion based solely on their own moral code. On a general note, what's the point of a discussion forum if people aren't prepared to engage in meaningful discussion?

ahhh, so now im a hypocrite.

its called picking up on self righteous posts, not hypocrisy.

This happens countless times in countless threads.

Again, there's nothing wrong with this when both parties are able and willing to consent: I'm not passing judgement on the women who work at Hooters, or the customers who choose to dine there. However, it's important to recognise that this arrangement is mediated by a complex set of social regulations, which is precisely what makes it acceptable. The problem is that a six-year-old child will invariably be too young to understand the complexities of this arrangement and the context within which it operates.

six year old children dont go there to look at woman, they go there to eat. there is no sexual situation, there is no flirting.

 

[jsw]

The problem is that a six-year-old child will invariably be too young to understand the complexities of this arrangement and the context within which it operates.

A six-year-old child will also fail to notice anything other than that he has gotten food and the ladies are being nice to him. I would be surprised if he would have felt any differently had the staff been composed of both sexes and had the clothing been conservative.

People who think six-year-olds are going to form complex opinions on the overt sexual nature of Hooters are vastly overestimating six-year-olds, at least as far as that is concerned.

And the fact that the wife disagreed? Seems that she needs to lighten up.

Would I mind if my wife took my 5-year-old daughter to some place similar, if it existed ("Bananas"...)? No.

Sexuality is, has been, and always will be a driving factor in marketing. To say that it's "wrong" is to ignore human nature. I fail to see any harm.

 

[jsw]

six year old children dont go there to look at woman, they go there to eat. there is no sexual situation, there is no flirting.

Exactly. I could at least see how this might be an issue with a 12-year-old kid. But not a six-year-old.

 

[jsw]

It's been so long since I've been to a Hooters - 12 years or so - that I'm thinking I might be wrong with respect to my opinions on the subject. I'm thinking of bringing my two daughters (5 years, 4 months) there tonight for dinner.

Is it likely that they will become pole dancers as a result?

 

[BakedBeans]

Is it likely that they will become pole dancers as a result?

dont forget they will become 'skanky' too! maybe even crack whores.

 

[jsw]

dont forget they will become 'skanky' too! maybe even crack whores.

What's good enough for Cartman's mom is good enough for my daughters.

 

[BakedBeans]

What's good enough for Cartman's mom is good enough for my daughters.

 

[Brize]

six year old children dont go there to look at woman, they go there to eat. there is no sexual situation, there is no flirting.

Exactly. I could at least see how this might be an issue with a 12-year-old kid. But not a six-year-old.

The issue here is not whether children themselves are participating, but whether they're picking up what's going on around them and learning from it, albeit unconsciously.

To suggest that a six-year-old child is too young to learn by observation not only contradicts established child development literature, but should be demonstrably false to any parent.

Further, it's generally considered that children begin to understand gender roles around the age of six or seven, but have yet to acquire reasoning skills. A twelve-year-old would be far better equipped to understand the complexity of the situation, at least in part.

 

[Lau]

And so does that mean you have to stop taking him between the age of, say, 9 and 15? And if so, what was the point of taking him now?

Oh, and I wouldn't be too happy if my husband took any of my kids to somewhere that we had either agreed wasn't suitable, or he knew I wouldn't approve of. Equally, I wouldn't do the same thing back. I believe it's called respect.

 

[jsw]

The issue here is not whether children themselves are participating, but whether they're picking up what's going on around them and learning from it, albeit unconsciously.

To suggest that a six-year-old child is too young to learn by observation not only contradicts established child development literature, but should be demonstrably false to any parent.

Further, it's generally considered that children begin to understand gender roles around the age of six or seven, but have yet to acquire reasoning skills. A twelve-year-old would be far better equipped to understand the complexity of the situation, at least in part.

So are you saying that the visit to Hooters will... what? Confuse the kid? Override all other input and cause him to become a misogynist? Make him start craving porn?

Of course 6 year olds learn by observation. But they're not going to learn what you seem to imply they'll learn by merely going to a Hooters.

There is no "complexity of the situation" whatsoever. The kid got food and attention.

 

[Brize]

So are you saying that the visit to Hooters will... what? Confuse the kid? Override all other input and cause him to become a misogynist? Make him start craving porn?

Of course 6 year olds learn by observation. But they're not going to learn what you seem to imply they'll learn by merely going to a Hooters.

There is no "complexity of the situation" whatsoever. The kid got food and attention.

I haven't once suggested that a single visit to Hooters will result in a discernible, negative effect; in post #78, I made reference to 'this and similar experiences'.

It's well established that children form gender-role expectations from as early as four years of age. Where do these expectations come from if children aren’t acquiring gender-role information where it's most pronounced?

Taking a child to a restaurant that has - according to you - an 'overt sexual nature' would indicate that the situation is characterised by a degree of complexity.