Hey! Quit stereotyping. I'm an old people more or less I guess and I love change. And I tried out the MacBook butterfly keyboard and liked it. And I do a lot of typing. So there.
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Just tried the new keyboard on the MacBook Pro
- Thread starter kevinkyoo
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I should do the same thing -- just stand there and type on it for a while.
I didn't buy a 12" MB, so I haven't gotten to use one for any length of time. I've seen other coders using them for web development, though, so I'm sure it can't be too bad.
Kinda wish there was a nice way to sit down and type on a desk at an Apple Store.
Negligible when compared to the neck, shoulder and back pains you'll be getting when solely using a notebook for hours. As always, if you are going to be working on it for hours then make sure you use an external keyboard and mouse, elevate the notebook when you are going to use its display or use an external display. In other words, make sure you actually have a workplace that is ergonomic, solely using the notebook is not an ergonomic workplace (no matter what keyboard it has).
Yes, there are many. Apple has changed the keyboards several times since they went Intel and each time there were numerous posts about it either being a good thing or the absolute worse thing Apple could have possible done.
I'm one of the people disliking the '15 and earlier models keyboards. They are one of the nicest rubber dome keyboards but they are still rubber dome and those are not a real pleasure to type on. I prefer clicky keys such as the Cherry MX Blue. The new MacBook keyboard resembles this type of key very closely which is why I like the MB keyboard more than the other notebooks. However, since they are still notebook keys it means they have a shallow key travel; I'm liking the longer key travel of the mechanical keyboards much much better (although their actuation point is just as shallow or shallower than the MB keyboard).
They improved the keys/switches; we'll have to see if this has truly fixed the keyboard issues some were having. With that said, do keep in mind the people here are rather picky.
i bet you all hate the taste of onions, too
and don't like oysters
if you don't like the darn things, don't buy 'em
but it's downright silly to claim any of this hardware is bad
it's the pinnacle of engineering done by some of the world's most prominent product designers
it's not 'bad' lol
and don't like oysters
if you don't like the darn things, don't buy 'em
but it's downright silly to claim any of this hardware is bad
it's the pinnacle of engineering done by some of the world's most prominent product designers
it's not 'bad' lol
I have the 12" rMB which has the same keyboard and it's all personal preference. I for one am tired of the chiclets. Apple needed to get rid of them ASAP.
the magic keyboard has slightly more travel than the MacBook Pro, but not by much. It is actually just magic keyboard 1. The first keyboard was not called magic keyboard
As someone who owns the 12" rMB, 13" Pro without TB, and the Magic Keyboard I have a good idea how they all feel.
12" = lowest travel
13" Pro = right in the middle
magic keyboard = most travel, but still less than the original pro, air, etc.
Just got test them in store before you buy if you are worried. Don't assume b.c you hate the 12" keyboard you will hate the Pro keyboard. They are slightly different, and it could have enough travel to change your mind. I personally like all of them. I think the new Pro is the best of the 3.
I have the same 3 and would agree with your summary. I do think it's a matter of getting used to something new and personal preference. Someone might not like the new keyboard but it's beyond silly to say it's garbage or you can't type with it.
Just upgraded from a 2011 MBA to a rMBP non touch bar today and after 4 hours of use i LOVE the new keyboard, not sure where all the hate for it comes from, it feels fantastic to me and I can type faster on it, more accurately too 
Just upgraded from a 2011 MBA to a rMBP non touch bar today and after 4 hours of use i LOVE the new keyboard, not sure where all the hate for it comes from, it feels fantastic to me and I can type faster on it, more accurately too
People just hate it cuz it feels different. Honestly, I don't even mind typing on my iPad Pro 12.9 onscreen keyboard. A lot of people have gotten used to digital keyboards, and people will get used to the butterfly one.
Phew...
So I tested the Keyboard on the new 13" MBP and I'm still on the fence.
Compared to the MB, there is not really more travel but the keys give a more clicky Response which is nice.
On the one Hand, the keyboard on the 2015 MPBs instantly felt sooo outdated once you try the new keyboard.
On the other Hand, there is still so Little travel it's scary and it certainly Needs time to adjust.
But I guess you'll have to try it out Long term to decide if you like it. I for one didn't cancel my 15 Inch 2016 MBP but I really hope I get used to the new keyboard.
So I tested the Keyboard on the new 13" MBP and I'm still on the fence.
Compared to the MB, there is not really more travel but the keys give a more clicky Response which is nice.
On the one Hand, the keyboard on the 2015 MPBs instantly felt sooo outdated once you try the new keyboard.
On the other Hand, there is still so Little travel it's scary and it certainly Needs time to adjust.
But I guess you'll have to try it out Long term to decide if you like it. I for one didn't cancel my 15 Inch 2016 MBP but I really hope I get used to the new keyboard.
I have never had a keyboard change my mind over extended use. If a keyboard hurts to type on at first, it will cripple me if I type on it for very long. I'm hoping this won't be one of those, but I'm basically resigned to keeping a bluetooth keyboard next to the Mac for its entire life.
Just upgraded from a 2011 MBA to a rMBP non touch bar today and after 4 hours of use i LOVE the new keyboard, not sure where all the hate for it comes from, it feels fantastic to me and I can type faster on it, more accurately too
1 or 2 mm of travel difference isn't going to make you more faster and more accurate. That's YOU doing that.
People who have an issue are those who have an objective reason for disliking it - namely it's noisier with less travel and it's not suitable for touch typists who rely on a little more physical feedback than others. Nobody sensible wants to stare at the screen all the time to see if they really did hit the keys.
I disagree. If you are not a heavy presser it can and will make you faster.
[doublepost=1478367559][/doublepost]
I disagree. If you are not a heavy presser it can and will make you faster. You aren't resting your palms on the keyboard etc..
[doublepost=1478368141][/doublepost]Its macrumors. People get melodramatic about change.
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Sure. Believe that a mm or two will make you more accurate and faster. It makes complete sense to ignore how much difference the pads in your finger tips, your muscular and skeletal system, and your brain makes.
I've never been a fan (and still not) of chiclet style keyboards. The best I've tried have been somewhere between acceptable and a grudging ok. At times supporting computers I would type on many different keyboards in a day, even one handed from the side.
Key and keyboard size and spacing
Key action
Key shape
People who hunt and peck will have no clue about usability as long as they have labels.
For a touch typist you need the location, accuracy, feel and action so you can type while looking at a document without constantly looking away at the screen or much worse at the keyboard.
The keys need to have a distinct feel. A start is having the home keys (F,J) having a tactile knob so you can constantly keep your orientation without concuss effort or looking at the keyboard. The shape needs to be distinct enough for you to place you fingers on the keyboard accurately without looking. When the tops of the keys are too close together you get more missed or multi-character keystrokes. Also you need a good feedback to whether your key has actually been pressed, intentionally or unintentionally.
Good (modern) example would be a college student in a lecture trying to take notes by typing. If you're going to get the value from the professor/instructor you better be watching and concentrating on listening to them and not watching the screen or keyboard.
The Macbook and new Macbook pro both made sacrifices for thinness. The short action length and the relative flatness both hurt usability.
I really like the backlighting of keyboards. Especially working in dimmer environments. Surprisingly I find I like some of the gimmicky gaming keyboards with their colored led backlighting. No because it looks cool but in a dark environment like for working on photos and videos a red backlighting doesn't effect my vision as much. If Apple made the backlight on the keyboards not just dim with ambient light but change from white to red when the lighting dimmed that might be an interesting improvement.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's next big idea after the touch bar is to replace all of the keys with a display keyboard that has no keys. The ultimate non-touchscreen touchscreen. Gee, lets replace having a nice keyboard with a flat display screen. Then we can save money (more profit) by not making different configurations and just doing a software switch for different countries and languages.
The gold standard is still the IBM Selectric Typewriter. In it's day your ordinary secretary was expected to type 60-70 wpm and not make errors on a full page of type. No spell checker or autocomplete. Really good typists would exceed 90 wpm and I knew two who routinely could do 120+ wpm. All while rarely looking at keyboard or display (paper) and not using a spellchecker.
I'm in amazement that people could do 60+ wpm on MANUAL typewriters. Talk about keyboard feedback and feel.
Key and keyboard size and spacing
Key action
Key shape
People who hunt and peck will have no clue about usability as long as they have labels.
For a touch typist you need the location, accuracy, feel and action so you can type while looking at a document without constantly looking away at the screen or much worse at the keyboard.
The keys need to have a distinct feel. A start is having the home keys (F,J) having a tactile knob so you can constantly keep your orientation without concuss effort or looking at the keyboard. The shape needs to be distinct enough for you to place you fingers on the keyboard accurately without looking. When the tops of the keys are too close together you get more missed or multi-character keystrokes. Also you need a good feedback to whether your key has actually been pressed, intentionally or unintentionally.
Good (modern) example would be a college student in a lecture trying to take notes by typing. If you're going to get the value from the professor/instructor you better be watching and concentrating on listening to them and not watching the screen or keyboard.
The Macbook and new Macbook pro both made sacrifices for thinness. The short action length and the relative flatness both hurt usability.
I really like the backlighting of keyboards. Especially working in dimmer environments. Surprisingly I find I like some of the gimmicky gaming keyboards with their colored led backlighting. No because it looks cool but in a dark environment like for working on photos and videos a red backlighting doesn't effect my vision as much. If Apple made the backlight on the keyboards not just dim with ambient light but change from white to red when the lighting dimmed that might be an interesting improvement.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's next big idea after the touch bar is to replace all of the keys with a display keyboard that has no keys. The ultimate non-touchscreen touchscreen. Gee, lets replace having a nice keyboard with a flat display screen. Then we can save money (more profit) by not making different configurations and just doing a software switch for different countries and languages.
The gold standard is still the IBM Selectric Typewriter. In it's day your ordinary secretary was expected to type 60-70 wpm and not make errors on a full page of type. No spell checker or autocomplete. Really good typists would exceed 90 wpm and I knew two who routinely could do 120+ wpm. All while rarely looking at keyboard or display (paper) and not using a spellchecker.
I'm in amazement that people could do 60+ wpm on MANUAL typewriters. Talk about keyboard feedback and feel.
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Out of curiosity I tried the keyboard on the rMB several different times on its introduction. Novel, to be sure. It was okay, and the keys were certainly precise. I felt I could use it; but on reflection wonder in listening to those who feel it too hard, uncomfortable with longer term use.
Keyboards matter, a lot. Companies put a lot of time, effort and thought into them. Much of this is subjective, but for Apple to discontinue a keyboard most everyone liked for one that at best is decisive and many hate says little for their judgement.
The keyboard of the 2016 MBP is not the key reason I will not be purchasing one. But it is not necessarily a plus either, and at minimum I would have to spend a good deal of time with one in a store first to determine if I could live with it, maybe even like. Maybe. Instead of love at first touch.
That is quite a low standard. Apple should aim higher.
Keyboards matter, a lot. Companies put a lot of time, effort and thought into them. Much of this is subjective, but for Apple to discontinue a keyboard most everyone liked for one that at best is decisive and many hate says little for their judgement.
The keyboard of the 2016 MBP is not the key reason I will not be purchasing one. But it is not necessarily a plus either, and at minimum I would have to spend a good deal of time with one in a store first to determine if I could live with it, maybe even like. Maybe. Instead of love at first touch.
That is quite a low standard. Apple should aim higher.
I went to Best Buy to check out the new keyboard and I liked it. Although I also liked the one on the 12" MacBook. The employee said that everyone that comes in hates it. For some reason I liked typing on it and thought it was better.
I spent a lot of time with one at BestBuy today. Although I could type on it, the keys were wobbly and very loud. They had last model Pro and Air on the same table and I typed on them to compare. Must quieter and a more satisfying feedback. I also tried a couple of Windows Ultrabooks. Although they had flatter keys than the older Pro and Air they had more travel than the new Pro's and a much better feel to them. I know it's a matter of personal preference like choosing the color of the case, but I just didn't like the new keyboard compared to the older ones or the Windows laptops.
Although the keyboard was a turn off for me the biggest turnoff was the Apple guy who lied to me and said that Apple hadn't raised their prices. Seriously? If I had asked he probably would have said Apple hadn't cut out the extension cord either.
Although the keyboard was a turn off for me the biggest turnoff was the Apple guy who lied to me and said that Apple hadn't raised their prices. Seriously? If I had asked he probably would have said Apple hadn't cut out the extension cord either.
You should really be solving crimes rather than wasting time on here
Made my day. Rofl!
Tried it for myself this afternoon.
Some have reported that they didn't see a difference from the MacBook's.
This one has a much more noticable click when you press down on the key.
It is better than the MacBook one.
Personally I'm fine with it. You get use to it within a few weeks and your typing speed will probably be faster.
Now, if we can just fix the price! Here in Canada it starts at $1900!
Some have reported that they didn't see a difference from the MacBook's.
This one has a much more noticable click when you press down on the key.
It is better than the MacBook one.
Personally I'm fine with it. You get use to it within a few weeks and your typing speed will probably be faster.
Now, if we can just fix the price! Here in Canada it starts at $1900!
I tried both today at BestBuy. I've been touch-typing for more than 20 years. I don't feel any perceptible difference between the 12" and the new MBP. I'm a very obsessive and sensitive person.
After typing "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog." over and over I think they're acceptable, mind you the sculpted silver keyboards on the old PowerBooks were the pinnacle of ergonomics. I like their cleaner look and less light bleed.
I can't attest to loudness, though … BestBuy is a bustling place.
After typing "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog." over and over I think they're acceptable, mind you the sculpted silver keyboards on the old PowerBooks were the pinnacle of ergonomics. I like their cleaner look and less light bleed.
I can't attest to loudness, though … BestBuy is a bustling place.
I'm beginning to think how and how fast you type determines weather or not you enjoy typing on the new keyboard.
I touch type, sort of feel my way around the keyboard. I also average about 90-100 WPM.
For me the new butterfly switches bite. I can't tell if the key has been pressed or not because it has such poor travel. I also have a hard time moving around the keyboard by feel because all the keys are flat. Almost flush to the body of the laptop.
I touch type, sort of feel my way around the keyboard. I also average about 90-100 WPM.
For me the new butterfly switches bite. I can't tell if the key has been pressed or not because it has such poor travel. I also have a hard time moving around the keyboard by feel because all the keys are flat. Almost flush to the body of the laptop.
Yes, this is exactly my experience with it. I touch type and do not like typing on these butterfly keyboards.