Justice Department Calls Apple's Privacy Case Stance a 'Marketing Strategy'

[Khedron]

You could certainly be correct -- how it actually works is speculation on our part. However, I'd imagine if they were remotely accessing it, Apple could monitor whether or not the firmware was copied and sent across their network, no?

Even if this would allow the FBI to make their own copy of the firmware binary, I doubt it's that easy to reverse engineer and/or reuse a binary that is specifically signed to work only with a unique device. It's not as though they're giving them the source code.

If Apple complied, the next day a judge would issue a warrant for the source code.

 

[alexgowers]

Yeah, how is it marketing if it was a private request that apple refused? They just thought well hey we can't possibly do this thing because you know marketing??? No i think apple actually values it's customers security and the systems they've built. To undermine them genuinely impacts every customer they have and makes them no different from google. There is a lot of mud slinging but apple will defo win this one i'm afraid no one is going to back the FBI.

 

[tgara]

I may be incorrect but Apple has never unlocked an iDevice for a law enforcement agency before. Prior to iOS 8, Apple had a way to get the data direct bypassing the the "lock". With iOS 8 and beyond, this method no longer works.

You are correct that you are incorrect.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/apple-unlocked-70-iphones-refusal-article-1.2536178

Before the October refusal, Apple had a long history of compliance with All Writs Act orders. The company helped New York investigators extract data from a suspected child sex abuser's iPhone in 2008; rushed a data extraction in 2013 from the phone of an alleged child pornographer in Washington; and in 2015 provided federal agents in Florida with data the company extracted from a drug suspect's phone.

[doublepost=1456025689][/doublepost]

Why not stick to the facts. Apple's appealing the order. That's a legitimate response to a court order.

Uh, Kim appealed her court order too, so it's a distinction without a difference. Tim and Kim are not so different. Both are fighting for what they think are right, and are willing to challenge the law and perhaps go to jail to do it. Do you always have this much difficulty seeing parallels, or do you just wave it away because you support one challenge but not the other?

 

[Irock619]

Marketing strategy? Then why does the FBI need Apple's help cracking the phone to collect data?

 

[LizKat]

Uh, Kim appealed her court order too, so it's a distinction without a difference. Tim and Kim are not so different. Both are fighting for what they think are right, and are willing to challenge the law and perhaps go to jail to do it. Do you always have this much difficulty seeing parallels, or do you just wave it away because you support one challenge but not the other?

I don't see it as a parallel, that much is true. More like a distraction. Which is why I posted what I posted.

 

[dk001]

You could certainly be correct -- how it actually works is speculation on our part. However, I'd imagine if they were remotely accessing it, Apple could monitor whether or not the firmware was copied and sent across their network, no?

Even if this would allow the FBI to make their own copy of the firmware binary, I doubt it's that easy to reverse engineer and/or reuse a binary that is specifically signed to work only with a unique device. It's not as though they're giving them the source code.

True however you can deduce quite a bit via the finished product. Suspect tis would run on a ram disk not on the device itself.
[doublepost=1456030118][/doublepost]

You are correct that you are incorrect.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/apple-unlocked-70-iphones-refusal-article-1.2536178
...

The problem is when I went looking for detail on this "unlock" I was unable to find any real information on whether it was an unlock or Apple just provided the info or... also none of these appeared to have been encrypted devices - the number also varies - 70 looks to be an approximation.

So what NY meant by "unlock" I am at a loss to factually say. It does appear that most or all of those were not encrypted.

One item of note (being the NYDN I can understand it), several items in the article are incorrect or not complete.

 

[Huracan]

I'm with Apple and Tim Cook 100% on this issue. I really hope the government doesn't win this one. I wouldn't like my phone fully exposed to international hackers for them to steal all my personal data. This is just a huge risk for everyone in this country and the world just to potentially solve a few cases. I think the scales are tipped in favor of protecting our privacy.

 

[macintoshmac]

Until his Andriod phone is cracked and private info is leaked to the world!

That is when Trump will "think security", and I am sure he will think they should "close it up" instead of "open it up", because that would be real common sense.

I also wanna know, is he open to the FBI raiding his businesses?

 

[thekeyring]

A marketing strategy when the CEO of their competitor agrees publicly with them?

 

[iphoneclassic]

Prior to iOS 8, Apple had a way to get the data direct bypassing the the "lock". With iOS 8 and beyond, this method no longer works.

Even now you don't need access to the device or pass code to access data. As long as there is latest complete/partial iCloud backup and access to iCloud account, you can access most of the data, including deleted items. AFAIK e-mails are not backed up, and there may be other things not part of backup.

There are utilities to download complete/partial backups and from iCloud to your computer. It also decrypts.

iTunes kept all old backups but with iCloud 5GB limit and iCloud Photo Library/Photo Stream you will quickly run out of iCloud space forcing you to remove photos from backup or keep cleaning iCloud Photo Library. If you have someone who takes 500-1000 pics a month it is a nightmare.

A tool which downloads iCloud backup to your local computer solves this problem.

 

[Alenore]

Asking for a custom version--if you mean coded to that particulr S/N as is spelled out in both pleadings-- is probably a red herring for public consumption to make it seem like it would only work on that particular phone and couldn't be adapted. Once the custom OS is installed and the code cracker software is deployed and access is granted, what happens to the phone? Nothing is said about that. Apple can destroy the code source they wrote that got installed on it but doubt they could wipe the phone and put it in a shredder since the phone isn't their property. And as someone said above, there could be info passed on in the backup. Apple would know this. If the phone goes back to the FBI after being unlocked to retrieve backups or whatever, I'm sure they would try to find places in the OS on the phone with the S/N and simply replace it with numbers from other targeted phones, i.e. a back door by any other name, despite how the pleadings want to depict it. Seriously, tech people aren't all upset and concerned about what was asked for no reason. It's not like Apple refused to provide the cloud backups as requested. There's more to it.

And maybe the FBI isn't capable of doing this but what about the NSA?

Finding something in a compilled app isn't as simple as opening it and trying to find a string in it. Even more if yo uwant to try to hide the verification (instead of checking the string, check a checksum, or other different algorithms, or check each character separately, etc). Even more, after changing that the OS itself wouldn't work since it would have been tampered with and thus wouldn't work.
Why do you think no one ever made a custom iOS version on his phone? Because you can't as it must be signed by Apple. That's also why the FBI is asking Apple and isn't doing it itself.
Now, all tech people aren't upset as you say. I'm a tech people, I make apps for a living, and know how all this stuff works. And I fail to see their reasoning.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

I would think EVERY business model includes securing customer data!

Pretty sure Google doesn't have that anywhere in their business model. Saying that they do is in their marketing strategy, but nothing more.

 

[dk001]

Even now you don't need access to the device or pass code to access data. As long as there is latest complete/partial iCloud backup and access to iCloud account, you can access most of the data, including deleted items. AFAIK e-mails are not backed up, and there may be other things not part of backup.

There are utilities to download complete/partial backups and from iCloud to your computer. It also decrypts.

iTunes kept all old backups but with iCloud 5GB limit and iCloud Photo Library/Photo Stream you will quickly run out of iCloud space forcing you to remove photos from backup or keep cleaning iCloud Photo Library. If you have someone who takes 500-1000 pics a month it is a nightmare.

A tool which downloads iCloud backup to your local computer solves this problem.

Too bad the FBI had the SB Health authorities rest the iCloud password and their IT group never rolled out the device management software.
[doublepost=1456074198][/doublepost]

Finding something in a compilled app isn't as simple as opening it and trying to find a string in it. Even more if yo uwant to try to hide the verification (instead of checking the string, check a checksum, or other different algorithms, or check each character separately, etc). Even more, after changing that the OS itself wouldn't work since it would have been tampered with and thus wouldn't work.
Why do you think no one ever made a custom iOS version on his phone? Because you can't as it must be signed by Apple. That's also why the FBI is asking Apple and isn't doing it itself.
Now, all tech people aren't upset as you say. I'm a tech people, I make apps for a living, and know how all this stuff works. And I fail to see their reasoning.

If I know or have an example of how hot works and can compare it to a device in the original state, it gives me some very good tarting points on where to look and what to look for. Where to focus my efforts. That in itself is a serious "plus".

Besides. If the FBI gets their way, what's stopping them from coming back with a second writ for additional data from the device now that "Apple is already in there...". Nothing and typical behavior.

 

[lederermc]

Trump has said to boycott all Apple products. I really hate this guy..

Trump thinks Apple has the password in their cloud somewhere... which they don't. He's completely clueless.

 

[mjs402]

Trump thinks Apple has the password in their cloud somewhere... which they don't. He's completely clueless.

I agree. I was raised Muslim and moved to Canada at a very young age. Now I'm a gay male in a decade old relationship, and I'm sorry - what the heck are Americans thinking? No good can come of this. If I have an Arabic first name, I'm going to be denied entry to the US now? I'm all for barring refugees coming into North America in general, but this is creating isolation, fear and is sending a very negative message. I am glad I was raised in Canada, truly. This guy scares me because the repercussions for moves like this and building a wall to stop Mexicans is wrong and disgusting, and I hate to imagine ****head terrorist groups using this as fuel to bait more individuals. America was never "great" as he makes it sounds. No country is perfect. It's the people that shape the country, and guess what? No one is perfect. Can you take measures to reduce crimes and terrorist attacks? Yes, absolutely - but this, this is wrong.

Then his target on Apple, let's boycott Apple? The hell is that crap? How juvenile. He claims to be a businessman, but yet cannot appreciate the level and detail of business/ethics in this situation.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

The United States Justice Department today asked a federal judge to compel Apple to comply with the court's original order that would force the company to help the FBI hack into the iPhone of San Bernardino shooter Syed Farook. In the filing, shared by The New York Times, the DOJ calls Apple's refusal to help "a marketing strategy" that "appears to be based on its concern for its business model."

A marketing strategy to defend our privacy? That's a damn good marketing strategy!

It seems that Apple kind of agrees with the Justice Department:

Apple’s success in China helps explain why it is now in a standoff with the United States government over whether to help officials gain access to the encrypted iPhone of one of the attackers in the San Bernardino, Calif., mass shooting last December.

The company is playing the long game with its business. Privacy and security have become part of its brand, especially internationally, where it reaps almost two-thirds of its almost $234 billion a year in sales. And if it cooperates with one government, the thinking goes, it will have to cooperate with all of them.

“Tim Cook is leveraging his personal brand and Apple’s to stand on the side of consumer privacy in this environment,” said Mark Bartholomew, a law professor at the University at Buffalo who studies encryption and cyberlaw. “He is taking the long view.”

Mr. Cook, who has called privacy a civic duty, said as much in a letter to Apple customers on Tuesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/21/technology/apple-sees-value-in-privacy-vow.html

The disconnect here is that Apple sees this marketing strategy as the key to its profitability, and perhaps even its long-term existence, while law enforcement in general sees this is as some sort of "extra" like combining oxygen bleach and detergent. Which tells me that a lot of people in law enforcement really don't understand "this technology" (for lack of a better phrase).

 

[QuiteSure]

Refusing to comply with a court order is a big deal. It's a dangerous game, one that you don't want to lose. Picture Tim Cook frog marched out of Apple headquarters in handcuffs. I don't think that'll happen, but more realistically, the board could fire Cook over this issue.

I'm all for user privacy, but my view is that Apple won't win this one.

I imagine that if Cook is dragged off in cuffs for refusing to comply iPhone sales will skyrocket.

 

[Gudi]

Marketing strategy? Then why does the FBI need Apple's help cracking the phone to collect data?

Don't doubt the government, these guys are experts in marketing. I still marvel at how they created the Department of Homeland Security out of thin air and a couple of other agencies. Everybody is still doing the same as before, but now under a new name and pretending to fight terrorism every step of the way.

 

[JeffiJers]

Happy to see apple taking this direction. I supported an owned a lot of apple stuff prior to this due to quality and ease of use.

Marketing or not, I now will strictly buy apple exclusively just on principal weather or not apple wins in court.

 

[gavroche]

Man ur comment is funny, even if in some alternate universe apple has more money then us US government, the goverment has more guns, troops, and laws behind it

Haha... You and I both have more money than the government. Have you seen te US debt lately?

 

[thermodynamic]

Not surprising.

But better to market than to be above the law so blatantly?

http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/02/...-cooperating-fbi-san-bernardino-investigation

I disagree with the Clinton comparison, but Ralph Peters nails it:

"Tim Cook is a complete phony," Peters said. "This is not about privacy rights of law-abiding Americans. This is about Apple selling a lot of iPhones to really, really bad people around the world."

He said that Cook doesn't want Apple to get a reputation as a company that might help the feds access encrypted devices.

"There’s nothing in our Constitution or Bill or Rights that says that terrorists or crooks or pedophiles have a right to encrypted communication," Peters said.

"Tim Cook would rather sell phones to terrorists than protect the American people. I’m not buying any more Apple products," Peters stated. "This is absolute shameful. The federal government did everything right, got the court order."

Note the key words: GOT THE COURT ORDER. Everything was done by the book and Cook, when otherwise bored from turning a blind eye to child labor, H1B abuse, and everything else, finally gets his undies in a know over something comparatively tame like 'privacy', noting how much data iPhones already collect about their users?!

If anyone thinks Cook is doing his big speech out of a generous liberal bleeding heart nicety for y'all, get out of the distortion field.

Especially when Microsoft is seen as more trustworthy nowadays... Apple needs to change its tune, fast...

(Some of the) sources:

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/2...rthy-than-apple-forrester-analysis-claims.htm

http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris...-trustworthy---apple-or-the-nsa--325998147804

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2015/10/06/apple-needs-to-fix-its-privacy-issues-and-fast/

http://www.wired.com/2014/11/investigation-reveals-silicon-valleys-abuse-immigrant-tech-workers/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jan/25/apple-child-labour-supply
(like those things weren't discovered long before 2010... Never mind more recent developments. If we can't trust him on human rights speeches, how can we trust him on something far less important?)
[doublepost=1456103711][/doublepost]

My god, Fbi is so usesless they need apple????? In russia things would be different.
Common FBI needs apple to resolve a problem otherwise they cant?

In Russia, government owns corporations. (Or China, where Comrade Cook loves to move jobs to.)

In America, corporations own America.

I think that's how the meme goes??

And how do you know the FBI is so useless? Let's think of some perspectives. Here's an easy one: If for no other reason, it's quicker - and saves taxpayers much money and resources... kinda sad that people whine about useless government spending and then complain about government trying to not spend for once...
[doublepost=1456103813][/doublepost]

A marketing strategy when the CEO of their competitor agrees publicly with them?

"The enemy of one's enemy is one's friend". Isn't that a popular meme or something in some Bible verse or something?

It's all a big stupid stunt to wind up the rubes with. Especially as, months ago, everyone was having their underwear knotted up over how much data these companies collect for themselves! but big government is always bad. Big corporation is always good. Nice to keep it simple. Thinking is bad. Orwell would approve. So would Huxley.

 

[koruki]

FBI should know better than to mess with the unofficial U.S treasury
[doublepost=1456113391][/doublepost]

Apple will eventually be forced to comply. A few "random" reviews of Apple's current tax practices by the IRS and something will be found amis.

I'm sure they'd love to force the most profitable company in history offshore, as if the jobs isn't enough.

 

[mytdave]

"The United States Justice Department"... Oh, you mean the currently corrupt department that acts as a PAC for the
Imposter-In-Chief? That department? I wonder what this same department will say when the FBI seeks an indictment for Hillary's treason?

 

[GQB]

Let's be clear about who's pursuing a 'marketing strategy' here... The FBI has taken a highly emotionally charged cold-case and trying to use it as a poster boy for terrorism in order to scare the country into giving up more privacy rights.
That's about as disingenuous as its possible to get.

 

[SusanK]

FBI plays hardball with Apple but not even an honorable mention for the weapon manufacturer/seller or the government employees tasked with clearing people to enter the country legally.

Does the government realize that Apple is the phone maker?