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A Couple Of Thoughts

Nym: No offence, but I am pretty sure that NOT ONE of the US founders was a Catholic. THere were some deists, most were Anglican, maybe a few Quakers, maybe a few Calvinists and what would later be called Baptists. Several agnostics/atheists. Being Catholic was not in fashion at the time of the US revolution...

Re: Justin Long character: Mac. I suspect that if JL were busted for pot the general response would be.. "huh. whatever. I'll have a cheeseburger please."
 
Nym: No offence, but I am pretty sure that NOT ONE of the US founders was a Catholic. THere were some deists, most were Anglican, maybe a few Quakers, maybe a few Calvinists and what would later be called Baptists. Several agnostics/atheists. Being Catholic was not in fashion at the time of the US revolution...

No offense taken of course :)
By the way, I deleted my post when you said it offended you, I'm not here to offend anyone, I was just in a rush leaving work and didn't had the time to check if what I'd written could cause some susceptibilities.
Apparently it did so I removed it.
 
Regarding Justin's Mac character being arrogant...

Justin's portrayal is usually pretty neutral and flat with respect to those qualities. He's simply reporting accurate information. Do you think your dictionary is arrogant because it has the exact definition for every word you ever find in it? Is your copy of iTunes arrogant because it has all the precise info on all of your favorite music, including numbers of times played, frequency of playback, etc?

I agree.

It's one thing to say, "Tough ****, PC. I'm just better." It's another to say, in an almost apologetic tone, "114,000 viruses for PCs, not Macs."

Some people can take anything as arrogance... :rolleyes:


Regarding the reference to holidays; and of their general celebration...

Why don't you atheists and non-Christian followers grow a pair already? You want us to respect the fact that you walk the Earth, too, and don't share our religious beliefs, so how about you do the same, ok? And for the record, this country was founded by white, anglo-saxon men who were all of some Christian faith. It wasn't founded by pagans, or Muslims, or Taoists or Shintoists or Buddhists or Atheists or anyone else. It was "God-fearing" Christian men who thought it best to write a document (the Constitution) wherein the rights of each individual person to believe as they wished should not be abrogated by the Government. However, we're referring to society here, not the U.S. Government.

Well, not quite.

Excuse me, I'm an Atheist and I'm not even American, I celebrate Christmas not because of religion but because of the family union that it represents and generates and that keeps getting harder to mantain, I am an atheist and I don't hate Jesus Christ, I respect his name, was probably one of the greatest people who lived, I just don't believe in god, that's all.
However, your country was founded by (and this is the part where you forgot some elements) ensalvering, native american killers, catholic (not christian) whites. Catholicism that made the inquisition so no one else could have their religion so don't talk about being opressed and disrespecting other people's rights because that's what's being done for centuries in the name of Christ, even he had no ideia of how people would distort his words to do so much harm. Of course that I agree with you when you say people should **** sometimes, Christmas represents a happy time and whatever, people shouldn't remove the word from everything, that's just stupid and I'm sure a lot of people from other religions have no problem with that so let's not generalize. There's nothing wrong in having different beliefs but believe me, Catholics have a lot of stains in their history.

Ah, just one more thing, the constitution was wrote after decades of slavery, when the black people finally started stepping up, forcing the whites to give them some rights. Otherwise, we would still have slavery.

Well, no, that's not right either.

The U.S. was founded by people of many beliefs, most of whom were Christian, but not in exclusion of other beliefs, including atheism.

[ASIDE]
BTW, this is one of my pet peeves, Catholics are Christians. And Catholics are not the only branch of Christianity that have stains in their history, let alone the only religion (including atheism). The fact that there are stains in the history has more to do with being human than being one religion or another. So, let the religion with no stains throw the first stone.
[/ASIDE]

As for when the Constitution was written, it had nothing to do with the slaves. The original Constitution included mention of slavery, in fact.

Beyond that, you're more or less on the mark. The country was founded by slave owners, native american killers, etc. But, like religions, every country on Earth has stains in the past. So, let's talk about the present.

We have entered into an age where tolerance and acceptance have become a mask for intolerance. Let me relate a story that demonstrates this.

My mother was a principal at an elementary school. One year, as her school was preparing for the annual Christmas pageant, a parent came in to complain. It seemed that this family was Jewish, and the parent felt that there should be an equal number of Hanukah songs as there were Christmas songs. My mother made an effort to be accommodating, despite the fact that the demographics of the school were about 80% Christian and 20% other. Well, as this developed, another of the "other" families got involved, this time an atheist. This parent insisted that there had to be no mention of anything religious, or he would go to the school board. The entire issue became such an inflamed topic that my mother was backed into a corner and had only one real option. She canceled the celebration altogether.

This is an example of the kind of "tolerance" that we're practicing today. "I'm different from you so you have to accommodate me!" I read about someone in my graduate school who made a public invitation to a Thanks Giving party to the entire department. One person showed up and became offended by the fact that this person had a plaque on the wall that said "As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord", saying that such things shouldn't be displayed at an open, public gathering, even though it was in this person's private home!

It is a level of militancy in tolerance that I find offensive. I want it to be okay for me to say "Merry Christmas" to people. Tolerance and acceptance is, for the people that I say that to, to take it for what it is, a gesture of good wishes, and not to be offended by it. Just as if someone wished me a happy Kwanzaa, I'll take it the same way, even though I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. On the other hand, I'll wish my Jewish friends "Happy Hanukah", because I know that has more meaning for them. And they wish me "Merry Christmas".

And considering where we are, we really should celebrate January 24th, as it is the day the Mac was released in 1984. You know, I'm going to mark that one down on my calendar and celebrate it. Would anyone here like to propose some suggestions on how that observance (one which is culturally and technologically significant, btw) might be held or handled? I'm serious about this, and am open to any positive, constructive suggestions from anyone without regard to age, race, gender, national origin, or religion. Terrorists and other agents of chaos are, of course, excluded.

Hmm...

How about this (sung to the tune of "Oh Christmas Tree"):

Oh, Macintosh, oh Macintosh!
Think differently, forever!
Oh, Macintosh, oh Macintosh!
Don't stop being so clever!

With great designs, and OS X,
I'll sing your praises over again...

:D
 
Hmm...

How about this (sung to the tune of "Oh Christmas Tree"):

Oh, Macintosh, oh Macintosh!
Think differently, forever!
Oh, Macintosh, oh Macintosh!
Don't stop being so clever!

With great designs, and OS X,
I'll sing your praises over again...

:D

This is cool! I like it! At least someone around here understands how to be polite and "in the spirit" of the holidays, etc.

Oh, and to the folks here who want to throw stones at what I said...

The "Hate America" crowd never fails to amaze me. And I'm not saying that only people who are foreigners are America-haters. We've got a lot of that hate crowd here as both natural and naturalized citizens. Please don't preach to me about the ills of slavery or of religious/social intolerance. I'm quite capable of understanding and recognizing them for what they have been, and what they are.

By the same token, let's not forget that we who are here now, and even those who's ancestry can be traced back to before the revolution, ultimately are not indigenous, ancestrally, to this continent. The hatred and evils you so desperately want to ascribe to America were brought, lock stock and barrel, from Europe. Let's also not forget the role which African tribal leaders played in selling their own people into bondage and slavery. There is a saying: it takes two to tango.

What's funny is how hypocritical and disingenuous some of you folks are. I point out how I don't celebrate certain holidays but respect the holidays because I respect those who celebrate them, and Justin Long's Mac character points out what ills his platform doesn't suffer, and you call us arrogant and hateful people. We're telling the truth (and a rather positive one at that) and all you can do is respond to us with disrespect and vituperative hatred! You accuse us of being intolerant, and yet you practice the very same intolerance you accuse us of!

What's next, you're going to label us all as baby killers, murderers and rapists?

I work in a culturally and theologically diverse workplace, yet you won't see even so much as one second of me trying to push my views (religious or otherwise) on other people, but somehow since I'm a Christian (actually, I'm a Missouri-Synod Lutheran protestant) I'm a scourge upon humanity. Talk about intolerance.
 
It's not offensive, it's a point of view, I myself think that "some" religions are full of crap and tell people to live their lives in fear and in denial of our greatest joys (just look at some "religions" point of view towards sex for example).
When I say I'm an Atheist it means I take no part in the religions game, I have no religion because I don't believe in a superior being (although I respect people's beliefs).
And yes, I consider Catholicism (the Vatican institution for example) an hypocrisy, or do you really think you'll ever see a black man or a woman become a Pope? Probably not. (it's just an example)
No one has the right to tell me what my opinion should be, Catholics probably think I'll go to hell for not believing in god and I respect that.
I just like to separate myself from everything bad that's being done in the name of religion these days and throughout history (censorship, terrorist attacks, "holy" wars against the middle east, the crusades, inquisition, and the list goes on...)
Most religions have a "beautiful" basis, but they're distorted by man, just look at Catholicism, Christ always said to aid the next man but you look at the Vatican and it's all spewing wealthiness and everything decorated in gold while more than half the world lives in complete misery, I can't pact with that.

Edit : I have no hate for you or your country, I haven't got hate for anyone, life's too short, but you're first post (Mike) sounded like others people religions were less than yours. Maybe I got it wrong.
And I know of course that African countries enslave their own people, hell, my own country killed a lot of natives in Brasil and Africa, I'm not saying it was only the American ones, doesn't mean I think it's right.
And yes, the constitution was created (like any other big social change) because the oppressed started to rebel, not by the goodness of the white man. A lot of people died fighting for equal rights, the constitution wasn't handed on a plate.

PS - I don't know half the religions in this world so I'm basing my opinion on the religions I do know and that prevail in my country.
 
Does anyone know if the new Holiday Justin Long commercials will be advertised? If I remember correctly, the Will Ferrell ones were just online and not on any TV. At least not that I saw.



While I do enjoy debate (not argument) on religion, can we please move it out of this thread? I've created a new one where you can move the discussion to, if you would be so kind:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/252041/
 
Does anyone know if the new Holiday Justin Long commercials will be advertised? If I remember correctly, the Will Ferrell ones were just online and not on any TV. At least not that I saw.



While I do enjoy debate (not argument) on religion, can we please move it out of this thread? I've created a new one where you can move the discussion to, if you would be so kind:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/252041/

Yes, I agree. I'll move over... ;)

P.S. Is there a moderator out there that could move all the posts over??
 
All we can do is try to live our lives as best we can. That can be done within a religion, or without.

Exactly, I agree with you, like I said, Christmas is a word to be taken by its "happy" meaning, I too celebrate Christmas as a time of peace and all that even though I'm not religious. and I agree with people being too intolerant these days about these sensitive issues.
However, I was talking about Catholicism because in my country 90% of all the population follows that particular branch of Christianity and I know first-hand how badly it is misinterpreted these days, it's an excuse for sexism, racism, homophobia, xenophobia and all the things that make me sad about the human being (in my country of course, maybe there the situation's different).
As you can see by the things that I dislike about the human race, I'm truly an anti-prejudice/discrimination person, and If you thought that I made any offensive comment to you or anybody, it was not the reason why I posted in the first time, I only thought that Mike's first comment was extremely aggressive to other people's religions, as you see, I didn't even relate to what he said but I felt the need to intervene.

Hope that clears it up.

BTW - I cannot post in the new thread you created so.. I guess my contribution will end here :)
 
BTW - I cannot post in the new thread you created so.. I guess my contribution will end here :)

I'm sorry, my goal wasn't to keep people out of the topic, but to make it easier to talk about the two separate topics. Why can't you post over there?
 
OK enough of the religious rant in this thread please. Now back to Justin info. Thanks.

Justin Long just posted an updated (revised) statement on his web site home Portal page at http://www.justinlong.net

He has removed the "Apple is paying me too much money stuff", condensed his statement about the Mac ads, talks a lot about Bruce Willis and his new Die Hard 4 dilm he is working on, and has cleaned up the formatting a bit (he uses linefeeds now).
 
I really like the ads. I think John Hodgeman actually makes them work though - being in the "PC" role has got to be much more difficult than the "Mac" role.

I'm planning to put his "The Areas of my Expertise..." book on my Christmas list. He read some excerpts from it on NPR a while back - hilarious!
 
Does John Hodgeman doing these commercials mean he's not going to be on The Daily Show anymore? While I like him in the commercials, I would rather see him in The Daily Show.
 
American History

Charles Carroll, a devout Roman Catholic, was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.:rolleyes:
 
Potus is absolutely right

From Potus:"Charles Carroll, a devout Roman Catholic, was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.:rolleyes"

Arggghhhh... I missed that day in class. Not really. I did forget, though. Don't know how I forgot... he was a fairly famous guy. The nuns would be so mad at me!
 
Uhh.. yea. I think the moral of the story, as exhibited here on this thread, is that some things are best left neutral.

An old saying in sales is that there are two things you NEVER discuss with a potential customer: Politics and Religion.

The reason is simply because many people have their own beliefs and views, and in the case of religion and politics, they are often very strong views, which they will defend militantly.

I personally don't care, or am the slightest bit offended, if someone wishes me a 'Merry Christmas', a 'Happy Kwanzaa', a 'Jovial Hog Raping Day', or any of the probably hundreds of 'holidays' that exist throughout the year.

For the purposes of selling Macs to people, I think it's best to simply say 'Happy Holidays' instead of 'Merry Christmas! Vote Republican!'
 
No. Steve Jobs has consistantly talked about the Mac Culture having class. The Windows culture doesn't. The ad about the Mac home video illustrates this point, with Gisele. That Dell has some random pothead trying to sound hip and the Get a Mac ads have Justin Long, a successful actor and purported teenage-heart-throb, further illustrates this point. This is the same reason Apple spend $4M on the 1984 ad and had Jeff Goldblum and Richard Dryfus narrate their TV ads while PC ads usually have spinning text and always end with the Intel doorbell.

I miss the blue man group intel ads :(
 
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