Kaspersky Lab Files Antitrust Complaint Against Apple Over App Store Policy

[5105973]

Isn't the reason that it's now built-in and it's duplicating the OS enough?

As others have pointed out, you’re actually kind of making Kaspersky’s point for them.

Look forget for the moment this is Kaspersky. Think of yourself as a domestic developer laboring away producing an app that sells great for three years. Then Apple suddenly gets off its dead butt and decides to build into iOS all the functionality of your app.

How are you to feel after three years, when you are all of a sudden told your app violates their terms and needs to be removed? And then you find out Apple basically assimilated all of the functionality of your blood sweat and tears into iOS. The timing looks suspicious. The timing makes it look like Apple doesn’t really care about our security after all, until it becomes a convenient excuse to screw over a small competitor and feed into their new advertising campaign focusing on privacy and security.

Where was this concern three years ago?

 

[Abazigal]

Please keep informing us. We need to learn the truth.
[doublepost=1553084269][/doublepost]

I'm not debating and this is definitely not my intention. But I believe that you should double think if you trust Apple so much. It's just a corporation after all with their own political motives.
You take for granted that android has malware (something I disagree with) and you just put your faith in Apple. That's what I understand from your messages.

Maybe Apple fans should take a step back and think again if Apple does things for their best interest. Let the judges decide where needed.

As a professional in a very sensitive area - healthcare - I can tell you that Apple doesn't give a damn.

You can go to Ars Technica and search for “android malware” and look at the first page of results. I personally don’t use Android, but frequenting Ars Technica, it seems like a new piece of news breaks ever so often, to the point where even the readers seem desensitised to this, and have come to accept it as the norm.

“What’s this? Another piece of malware found? *Only* a few million affected? Ah well, just another day in Android land”.

Conversely, Apple seems to always be held to impossible standards, where even the slightest issue gets a disproportionate amount of attention. Take the “fappening” for instance. It wasn’t a hack. The main issue was due to the use of weak passwords and social engineering. Yet Apple got all the blame. Because F Apple, right?

You see the double standards here, effectively stemming from different sets of expectations governing each platform. I personally see it as a happy problem for Apple, though it’s still no less irritating.

I can’t speak for other people, but I do find that by and large, what Apple has done tends to be in my interests at least, but that could also have stemmed from my decision early on to just embrace the Apple ecosystem in its entirely. No second thoughts, no regrets, no looking back.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Please keep informing us. We need to learn the truth.
[doublepost=1553084269][/doublepost]

I'm not debating and this is definitely not my intention. But I believe that you should double think if you trust Apple so much. It's just a corporation after all with their own political motives.
You take for granted that android has malware (something I disagree with) and you just put your faith in Apple. That's what I understand from your messages.

Maybe Apple fans should take a step back and think again if Apple does things for their best interest. Let the judges decide where needed.

As a professional in a very sensitive area - healthcare - I can tell you that Apple doesn't give a damn.

Agree. Apple is a company that is profiting quite well from selling its products. Apple has traditionally taken a moral high ground in certain areas that has lead to the trust that people have in them. However, they are not some benevolent overlord.

In this case, as in the Spotify case, a) did the products follow the developer rules? and/or b) did the rules change?
If Kaspersky was in compliance with the rules when it was first developed, I would have a problem with the product being pulled. However, if the rule violation was just discovered, then it should be pulled.

Another thought: how should Apple proceed if a product followed the rules for OS A, but the rules where changed for OS B? Should the product be pulled completely ? Or should it be allowed to function only in OS A? Or should it be acceptable, regardless, due to some grandfather policy?

 

[Intellectua1]

Yet there are those of us out there that do not want Apple to be judge jury and executioner.

Well that's what you get when you purchase iOS devices, an Apple curated experience. I personally can't use a phone that doesn't allow me to make my own choices after purchase. Still dreaming of that day though.

 

[dialogos]

You can go to Ars Technica and search for “android malware” and look at the first page of results. I personally don’t use Android, but frequenting Ars Technica, it seems like a new piece of news breaks ever so often, to the point where even the readers seem desensitised to this, and have come to accept it as the norm.

“What’s this? Another piece of malware found? *Only* a few million affected? Ah well, just another day in Android land”.

Conversely, Apple seems to always be held to impossible standards, where even the slightest issue gets a disproportionate amount of attention. Take the “fappening” for instance. It wasn’t a hack. The main issue was due to the use of weak passwords and social engineering. Yet Apple got all the blame. Because F Apple, right?

You see the double standards here, effectively stemming from different sets of expectations governing each platform. I personally see it as a happy problem for Apple, though it’s still no less irritating.

I can’t speak for other people, but I do find that by and large, what Apple has done tends to be in my interests at least, but that could also have stemmed from my decision early on to just embrace the Apple ecosystem in its entirely. No second thoughts, no regrets, no looking back.

As Android malware obviously exists so doest lot of Apple software and especially security issues. Facetime, root password etc.

If you believe those issues are not important let me inform you that in contrary to you I have actually used Android and never had an issue.

Finally one small and friendly advice. In our life critical thinking helps us evolve. As humans we should be able to change and not remain the same. No need to have regrets but no need to be dogmatic when it comes to Apple.

 

[Stella]

Isn't the reason that it's now built-in and it's duplicating the OS enough?

There are other applications that duplicate provided iOS functionality, so this excuse is bullcrap.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Fair enough. But still there is this political point of view among users that they will not touch anything from Russia or some ex communist countries. To my knowledge some of the best software was developed there. Readdle is one example.

And I think we could easily assume if such tools are in Russian software imagine how easier it is to install the same tools in US software. Just because we haven't discovered it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The way I see it is that Americans mostly will not trust Russians, now the new trend is they don't trust the Chinese manufacturers " huawei " but I hear nothing about american companies. As if they're some angels

Creepy smiley-faced emojis can’t make a bad argument good. Your premise is flawed because you are comparing apples and oranges. First off, people do criticize American companies—all the time. Secondly, the legitimate concerns people do have with American companies are different, because the American government is not a quasi-totalitarian state, where human beings lack basic civil rights, where speech and thought are controlled by widespread government censorship and propaganda, and where politicians use “private” companies as their puppets to spy on not only foreign governments, but on the private citizens of those countries, and on foreign corporations whose intellectual property they steal and use to prop up their own, inferior domestic companies.
[doublepost=1553086450][/doublepost]

Same reason people correct mistakes after they make them and not before.

Perfect response.

 

[Abazigal]

As Android malware obviously exists so doest lot of Apple software issues. Facetime, root password etc.

If you believe those issues are not important let me inform you that in contrary to you I have actually used Android and never had an issue.

Finally one small and friendly advice. In our life critical thinking helps us evolve. As humans we should be able to change and not remain the same. No need to have regrets but no need to be dogmatic when it comes to Apple.

Thing is - the reason why Android malware even exists is precisely due to Google’s cavalier attitude when it comes to app permissions, and their automated process for vetting apps before they are submitted. It’s a systemic issue stemming from the very nature of Android itself. There’s just no getting around it. Google just isn’t willing to put in the same amount of time and resources that Apple does in this regard.

iOS isn’t perfect, but the reason for issues like Group FaceTime exist despite Apple’s best efforts to lock down their platform, not because of it. That’s the difference.

And maybe that’s the whole crux of the matter. If you want the sort of freedom that Android offers, then you have to accept that security will never be as tight as on iOS, where Apple sees to it that users are not given anywhere near enough rope to hang themselves with.

Neither is wrong. It all boils down to personal preference, and I just so happen to prefer and appreciate the good work that Apple is doing here.

 

[ChrisNH]

That magic inflection point where lawyers outnumber engineers at Apple might be very close indeed.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Irrespective of the company, Apple is being pretty dictatorial with this one.

Well, it's their platform, so yeah. Don't like it? Sell elsewhere.

 

[jlseattle]

Russians unhappy with American business?

 

[JeffPerrin]

Congratulations, you've been Sherlocked.

 

[dialogos]

Creepy smiley-faced emojis can’t make a bad argument good. Your premise is flawed because you are comparing apples and oranges. First off, people do criticize American companies—all the time. Secondly, the legitimate concerns people do have with American companies are different, because the American government is not a quasi-totalitarian state, where human beings lack basic civil rights, where speech and thought are controlled by widespread government censorship and propaganda, and where politicians use “private” companies as their puppets to spy on not only foreign governments, but on the private citizens of those countries, and on foreign corporations whose intellectual property they steal and use to prop up their own, inferior domestic companies.
[doublepost=1553086450][/doublepost]
Perfect response.

I apologise if I have used one of those creepy smiley-faced emojis which I assume is the ones Apple has so heavily invested in.

I have nothing against the US - on the contrary!!!! But I will not open a political conversation here.

 

[sidewinder3000]

I think in this case, it’s warranted because Kaspersky was basically requesting for system-level access to your device.

Contrast this with another app like say, Documents from Readdle, which lacks access to the same permissions. So there is a limit to what Readdle can access from your device, and consequently, what harm they can do.

So basically, an app like screen time, which basically monitors what apps you use on your device and for how long, should never be administered by a third party, because you simply don’t know what they might do with your data. By having Apple being the only one with such access, you effectively remove the ambiguity from the equation. No need to worry about whether said company is trustworthy or not, by making it such that they will never be in a situation in the first place.

Best of both worlds for both Apple and the consumer. As for the developer, well, they kinda had it coming when they tried to pull this stunt on ios in the first place.

Your response is so thoughtful, wise, and civilized. What are you doing here?

 

[Abazigal]

Your response is so thoughtful, wise, and civilized. What are you doing here?

Thank you. It’s just so rare that I ever get to start off a conversation here. Usually, new threads pop up when I am asleep and by the time I wake up, they have ballooned to several hundred responses.

 

[Intellectua1]

There are a few cases I'd like Apple to lose. The Spotify case, because it'll open up 3rd party billing on iOS and loosen anti competitive behavior on iOS like limiting 3rd party app features (access to Siri and system level functions).
This case with Kaspersky because when I download an app from a developer I want to use it as the dev intended it to work, I don't need Apple dictating how the apps I purchase work. And I'd also like to see them lose a case regarding default apps (which I feel is VERY anti competitive, I want to be able to use whatever assistant I want on the device I purchase and set whatever app as a default. I should not be forced to use Apple's services just because I bought an iPhone. If Apple's services are that great let everyone compete on the same level, don't cripple apps on your OS to give your apps the advantage.
I have a feeling the anti competitive default apps lawsuit will come soon if Spotify wins

 

[thasan]

Your argument is that since people and companies make mistakes, then it’s better to give control to many than just one.

Yeah makes sense
[doublepost=1553081346][/doublepost]

What does the US government have to do with App Store policies or this lawsuit?

lol... we shouldnt have police too since they can make mistakes

 

[Intellectua1]

To me, it’s common sense.

I don’t go into a french restaurant and then complain that it doesn’t serve Japanese cuisine.

I don’t go to China in May and then complain that the weather is too hot.

And I don’t see it as a case of Apple abusing their power. I am a happy Apple user precisely because I expect Apple to use the control that they wield over their ecosystem to make the hard choices for me so I don’t have to, including what apps to allow and what apps not to allow.

If that’s what it takes to create a safe and secure platform for its users, then so be it.

Hard choice?
[doublepost=1553087893][/doublepost]

I always find amazing when people think about malware, they automatically print their finger to Android. I mean for the years that i have been dealing with Android, i have never encountered any malware for myself..i am pretty sure the malware issue is overblown by Apple fans.

See why not let user judge what should be allowed and what should not be allowed. Why there can’t be a pop up that let user grand access? Apple already do this anyway... so why just blocking one app?

Yeah the whole Android Malware/Virus thing is way overblown by Apple fans to the point it's laughable now. It just shows how conditioned they are by Apple and how uniformed they are of other systems. I hope I never get to a point in life that I think the products I use are so great that I automatically form negative opinions of other products without using them and I'm unwilling to use other products due to my undying loyalty to a brand. That's just nuts every time I think about it

 

[BobRoss]

.......

 

[YaBe]

You buy Apple products because they are in control. If you want a product that is out of control, you buy Android.

NO I buy Apple product because I like them, then find myself with limitation that should not be there in the first place, and cope with it.

The Pro of Apple for me is not in the walled garden!

Also for a company that touts creativity it seems very limiting, and not allowing developers to be creative.

May be YOU buy Apple because they are in control (and fine by me, it's your choice), I really do not.

P.S. I also have Android. like it quite a lot, it isn't the 90s anymore, I grew up and buy from different vendors, i buy what I like and what works for me no matter who produces it.

Apple has its fair number of issue, as any other vendor, sometimes they make great product and then cripple them down with SW (BOY the iPad Pro has so much more potential than it is allowed!!!!!).

 

[Baymowe335]

Another failing company barking up the wrong tree.

 

[0947347]

Well considering the NSA tools were found on Kaspersky's network, ya, im gonna go with F them.

———-
From wiki

The Kaspersky Global Research and Analysis Team (GReAT) has discovered sophisticated espionage platforms linked to U.S. intelligence, such as Equation Group and the Stuxnet worm. Various covert government-sponsored cyber-espionage efforts were uncovered through their research.


Bad bad Russian spies. Fortunately the US government doesn’t spy on, oh...
Well, nevermind then.

Finding worms from US intelligence might get you banned from being used in US government offices and ... oh, well, nevermind.

I have burned my toast today. It’s the Russians’ fault.

As for the quarrel with Apple, business is business. The more competition the better.

 

[gnipgnop]

The Kaspersky Global Research and Analysis Team (GReAT) has discovered sophisticated espionage platforms linked to U.S. intelligence, such as Equation Group and the Stuxnet worm. Various covert government-sponsored cyber-espionage efforts were uncovered through their research.

A Russian company that focuses on uncovering U.S. espionage while ignoring Russian espionage. Sounds like a state-run company, no? Kind of like how WikiLeaks only seemed to have leaks from the U.S. or western countries?

 

[JetTester]

The timing of Apple removing the app, at the same time they introduced similar functionality, totally makes Kaspersky's case. Had they prohibited it from the beginning, there wouldn't be much there. I think Apple loses this one.

 

[Edsel]

I bet Bill Gates is quietly smiling at Apple's "monopoly" problems. I remember when Apple was a party to the U.S. Govt's action in 1999 against Microsoft for "monopolizing" the web browser.

When you are on top, the hyenas are right behind ya'.