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Kind of jealous of new i7 dells.
- Thread starter fibrizo
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I don't know how long other people have been Mac users here, but I'm a very recent convert (just about two months ago). Over the years I've dealt with so many Windows problems; all of my Windows computers/laptops accumulated multiple problems. And it's not just me because of course this happened to my dad as well and friends of mine. Most recently, my HP laptop's motherboard crapped out twice, it's unbearably slow, the speakers sound scratchy, it gets about 20 to 30 minutes of battery life, and so on. Problems started happening when it was just a year old (although it always had bad battery life) and now it's about two years old. Before that I had virus issues with my XP desktop; the hard drive needed to be wiped, so I lost all my stuff. My dad's former desktop burnt out after I was writing an essay on it and now his current one lost program files somehow after doing a Windows Update. None of the Microsoft-based services have been really helpful or friendly (HP, Gateway, Microsoft itself, etc.), whereas my dealings with Apple so far have been great. I'm distrustful of Microsoft now because of years of pain. Maybe I am a little biased after switching to Mac, but it's because after dealing with all this crap with Microsoft, using a Mac and dealing with Apple is like FREAKING HEAVEN!!
I don't know how long other people have been Mac users here, but I'm a very recent convert (just about two months ago). Over the years I've dealt with so many Windows problems; all of my Windows computers/laptops accumulated multiple problems. And it's not just me because of course this happened to my dad as well and friends of mine. Most recently, my HP laptop's motherboard crapped out twice, it's unbearably slow, the speakers sound scratchy, it gets about 20 to 30 minutes of battery life, and so on. Problems started happening when it was just a year old (although it always had bad battery life) and now it's about two years old. Before that I had virus issues with my XP desktop; the hard drive needed to be wiped, so I lost all my stuff. My dad's former desktop burnt out after I was writing an essay on it and now his current one lost program files somehow after doing a Windows Update. None of the Microsoft-based services have been really helpful or friendly (HP, Gateway, Microsoft itself, etc.), whereas my dealings with Apple so far have been great. I'm distrustful of Microsoft now because of years of pain. Maybe I am a little biased after switching to Mac, but it's because after dealing with all this crap with Microsoft, using a Mac and dealing with Apple is like FREAKING HEAVEN!!
Many people feel like you do and there is no shame in that. But Macs aren't perfect and they have many of the same hardware issues PCs have. And many people have been to the Genius Bar at Apple and have had terrible experiences and many people on PCs have great experiences. My dad loves Vista (don't ask me why), his computers for years have never had many issues. My sister bought a MacBook and the inverter on the screen crapped out after a year, my cousin's power connector for the battery died and he had to get it replaced on his black Macbook. My uncle's iMac hard drive died after two years. Point is, there are many problems on both platforms. Computers go bad all the time.
Windows does not have Grand Central Dispatch. The cores will sit idling and sucking down energy without any benefit for most users.
Battery life is dismal, so it's not really a laptop or a portable.
Apple tops 2009 customer satisfaction
http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/02/19/apple.tops.satisfication/
Apple leads HP, Dell in consumer satisfaction survey
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/25/apple.consumers.satisfied/
Battery life is dismal, so it's not really a laptop or a portable.
Apple tops 2009 customer satisfaction
http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/02/19/apple.tops.satisfication/
Apple leads HP, Dell in consumer satisfaction survey
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/06/25/apple.consumers.satisfied/
You keep bringing up GCD but I got nearly x2 performance moving from a E2140 at 2.4 GHz to a Q6600 under Windows XP back in 2007.
Battery life is something Apple really aims for as a marketing gimmick for the most part. You can almost say the same for 3.0 GHz.
lol my late 2008 unibody macbook doesn't even have firewire.
i didn't think it was a huge secret to apple fanboys that spec-wise you can get a MUCH better PC/laptop over a similarly priced mac. i'll be honest and say that i bought my macbook mainly because my old laptop was stolen and i figured i'd use my insurance money towards a fancy mac laptop this time around. having this macbook for about a year now, i have to say that i am completely underwhelmed by the 'mac experience' and really isn't worth the amount i paid for it.
i thought osx would win me over somehow but after installing windows 7 via bootcamp, i am finding i am using it more and more than snow leopard. the very fact that you can't even do simple things in Finder like cut and paste (do i really have to DRAG files around to do this?), or the inability to create new folders within dialogue boxes is completely ludicrous to me and it just boggles my mind as to how mac people can prefer this sort of dumbed down system instead. obviously people will always have their preferences but yeesh.
personally the next time i go for another hardware refresh, i will be returning to the pc world where i won't feel as bad spending a lot of money for something that will blow me away spec-wise, compared to buying a mac and constantly telling myself "well..at least its pretty!"
Actually, it is the other way around. Most applications that could benefit from multiple cores are already written to support multiple cores and will therefore get no advantage from Grand Central Dispatch. Applications like Final Cut, Adobe's CS4 Suite, and Pro Tools will gain zero from Grand Central Dispatch.
Going forward, GCD will provide a great tool so developers do not have to worry about coding for multiple cores. However, most CPU-intensive applications will see zero benefit from GCD in the present.
Yes, I realize that there are problems on both platforms. I read about the problems here in case I ever run into any of them. It's just after so much bad luck with Microsoft computers, I was blown away by the Macs. Also, of course, AppleCare was a draw for me because my HP laptop's two-year warranty cost almost $400 whereas Apple's three-year warranty was... don't remember exactly, but a lot less, and I get the education discount. I researched the Mac a lot before purchasing. This was such a big deal for me because I literally spent all the money that I made over the summer on this MacBook Pro. I know that it's expensive, but honestly, in the long run... I think a PC costs pretty much the same (or maybe more) once you take into account the repairs that it may need. And finding a good antivirus is a pain in the butt. I pirated mine and even that's annoying because after a while it tells you that you're using pirated software. I'm just so happy with the Mac and the free iAntivirus.
P.S.: Even more strange: even though my dad has had multiple problems with his Vista desktop, he still claims that he likes Vista and refuses to upgrade to Windows 7.
Yea I was looking at these a few days ago. $999 for a base Core i7 model is a great price. Coupled with the 15-20% off coupon Dell seems to have like every month and it can be had for around $850. I'm always itching to try a new computer so I'll probably end up giving the mobile Core i7's a go when some Studio 15 or Studio XPS 16's show up on the Dell Outlet. On the outlet maybe they'd show up for like $800 and then add in the 15% off coupon and thats crazy cheap.
I'd be downgrading on a few things though from my current 15" MBP like cheaper build quality (going back to plastic, heh), smaller touchpad with button, and the LCD screen quality probably isn't as great as a MBP. I never really had any problems with Dells though (use a Dell desktop at work 5days/wk).
I'd be downgrading on a few things though from my current 15" MBP like cheaper build quality (going back to plastic, heh), smaller touchpad with button, and the LCD screen quality probably isn't as great as a MBP. I never really had any problems with Dells though (use a Dell desktop at work 5days/wk).
Some may argue that "normal consumers don't need quad-core!!" but I'd at lease like the choice from Apple. I'd imagine my Handbrake video conversions (for converting movies to my iPhone) would be a LOT faster going from my Core 2 Duo to a Core i7
So um, why is grand central dispatch necessary for multiple cores? While not as optimized for multi core processing, there have been multiple changes in windows 7 to make it more optimal. Honestly I dual boot Win 7 pro and osx for my different uses. I am talking about hardware not software. I am not comparing windows to mac. Both of them are now based off of the same X86 architecture. This isn't the G5 altivec vs intel stuff anymore. The hardware is the same. The os is just a layer on top of it.
Also have you been in a hole? This is a Mobile core i7 with Turbo boost. If you are using 1 core, it will clock up that core to 2.8 ghz (for this model, much higher for others) and shut down the other cores. So no the cores do not sit ilding and suck down energy. (C2D architecture will not do this though)
Most users will experience a huge boost in speed. As not only is the architecture more efficient, but for most of your single core processes (which is still most of them) a boost in clock speed ofor 1-2 cores will make them run that much faster.
Also where are you getting the battery life idea from? The new processors are 35w TDP, but the include the northbridge. Honestly not much different from the current line of C2D. They are likely to be more power efficient as time goes on. You won't likely see one in a MBA, but we should see these in the MBPs soon.
I don't understand why people can't accept that sometimes PCs can have great ideas, just because it didn't come out of the mouth of "God" erm "Steve". I like my macbook's form and function, but I can be critical of it too. I know people are tired of defending themselves from PC users, but this is a mac forum. I present ideas not because I'm attacking mac users, heck I am one. But because I think these ideas warrant looking at and discussing.
No you don't. For one there are plenty of free antimalware programs that are better than most commercial offerings. Secondly I've been running Windows 7 without an antivirus since the first public beta. Before that I used Vista for a year without antivirus too. Whenever I installed one and did a scan I got nothing.
Antivirus is not needed, but it helps protect the user from themselves! Many install viruses etc by falling into scams that use social engineering, for example a false virus alert and antivirus software on a website. If you know your computers and have any common sense you'll have no trouble with malware even without "protection".
But does the average user care if those take 5 minutes instead of 10? When there is a longer wait involved, as long as it's not absurdly long people will just do something else (maybe browse the 'net or have a bite to eat) while whatever task is being done. Over the years only 3D modeling and rendering has been lengthy enough to make me crave for more processing power and cores.
High resolution screens on a small panel won't work until OSX becomes resolution independent. Vista and Win7 are already so on those a high res screen is beneficial, though I would assume that at 1920x1080 some scaling is set straight from the factory because that would be really tiny pixels on a 15" screen. I feel that the 17" 1920x1200 on the biggest MBP is way too high res compared to the panel size, with Windows' thinner looking font smoothing text would be pretty hard to read.
I don't really see much benefit in cramming several video outputs in there unless it allows for two external monitors to be connected (in which case a DVI-I and HDMI output would make more sense). I also doubt if the HDMI output will support 30" 2560x1600 displays like the Mini-Displayport does.
The machine does have impressive specs and looks pretty good but it remains to be seen how hot it runs and how long the battery lasts. In most situations where people actually use the laptop, battery life will be more important than the beefiest processor and GPU.
We had a long discussion about Grand Central Dispatch on Page 1 and sadly it appears to be more of a responsiveness tool instead of a parallelization panacea one. You're still going to need to do some work to parallelize operations.
Fewer beachballs doesn't mean the application is using all cores, threads. Even so you're still going to hit the mother of all bottlenecks called the hard drive.
Still my biggest complaint is Apple's bland hardware selection with insert Core 2 Duo + 9400M G. Snow Leopard is gearing up for Nehalem/Westmere but it still feels lackluster. Apple, this isn't Mid-2008. We've had a few too many instances where you're paying present day prices (in Apple dollars) for 1-2 year old hardware.
Thats where the turbo boost is useful. why not have a processor that's faster and more power efficient for the same cost. And have 4 cores if you need it? I mean I have 5 sets of seat belts on my car and I rarely use more than 2, but I'm not going to have them remove the other ones at the factory if I can get them all at the same cost
Anytime I can have something faster, if it means reencoding my itunes library in less time, load up a few pages running flash, etc. It would be nice. Would it hurt me to wait a few extra seconds? No.I didn't know that osx was resolution dependant. That would be an issue. I do like higher res as everything looks a little sharper to me. Which I know is perceptual and personal. but I can fit a more of a web page on the screen or more of a document. My eyes aren't that bad yet (but they will be in time I know lol)
I know my usages are different than most. I do presentations quite often. Usually the equiptment at hand at the various locations I go to have VGA, DVI or HDMI. I know I can carry multiple adapters, but it seems like a pain. Very few projectors in universities and medical schools, hospitals use mini-display port. In fact I'd hazard a guess and say none. Having 1 more type would mean less cables and being more convenient. That's all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_Extensions
Read it, learn about Microsoft's exact same technology. Also, if you read about the NT kernel, you'll learn in many ways, Microsoft's kernel was better suited to handle multiple cores long ago.
GCD just helps the small programs work together so they don't hog threads, in reality, a well-programed application that manages it's own threads will perform very similarly under both platforms.
Not everyone needs an ultraportable with 8 hours of battery life. Many people have a desktop replacement laptop that they can bring with them, plug in, and use at a desk during work. They do this so they essentially have desktop power, but get to keep all their work with them on one machine. They can benefit from the i7 power with a powerful laptop GPU (not an outdated 9600), and have no worries about battery. The sad matter of fact is that Apple does not cater to the power-user that needs a desktop replacement, not a portable.
I've got one of those Studio 1555's.. with a centrino 2.0GHz pros.. They are decent laptops with an OK build quality. The screen is even worse than my MacBook screen on mine.. it's super low res.. and the colors are really bad. Anyway, the point is, with the core2duo it's already cooking itself. It really is, after having it turned on for like half an hour the touchpad is literally cooking.. And that's just with the machine idling around.. how in earth is it going to survive the i7?
After my brief experience with Dell this week, I'm not jealous in the slightest.
I bought a Dell Studio 1555 last week (just before the update today), cost me bout £1138. got the hd screen, 9 cell battery, 8gb ram, bluetooth, backlit keyboard. Been mac user for 5 yrs have currently ibook g4 and iMac 7.1. Basically wanted a decent laptop, needed windows on it anyway, and thought the current macbook pros were a bit expensive for what they were.
The laptop arrived on the wednesday. Build quality - utter crap!!! Had to really push to get my memory stick into one of the USB's. the grey plastic over the top of the laptop felt like it was coming apart from the laptop body. Keyboard wasn't very responsive either
The 1080p LED screen was nice though admittedly.
Anyways, had to reinstall the whole OS on the first day because either windows didnt like preinstalled mcafee, or it didnt like some of the hardware installed.
And the software they provided to play the blu ray movies didnt work properly and wouldnt play alot of disks. Asked me to perform a software update, then when i tried to do it get an error message saying patch cannot be installed on this computer.
Lost my patience with it, didnt mess about, demanded refund. once £££ goes back in will decide whether im going to buy a macbook pro now or wait till the inevitable Arrandale updates in January.
I bought a Dell Studio 1555 last week (just before the update today), cost me bout £1138. got the hd screen, 9 cell battery, 8gb ram, bluetooth, backlit keyboard. Been mac user for 5 yrs have currently ibook g4 and iMac 7.1. Basically wanted a decent laptop, needed windows on it anyway, and thought the current macbook pros were a bit expensive for what they were.
The laptop arrived on the wednesday. Build quality - utter crap!!! Had to really push to get my memory stick into one of the USB's. the grey plastic over the top of the laptop felt like it was coming apart from the laptop body. Keyboard wasn't very responsive either
The 1080p LED screen was nice though admittedly.
Anyways, had to reinstall the whole OS on the first day because either windows didnt like preinstalled mcafee, or it didnt like some of the hardware installed.
And the software they provided to play the blu ray movies didnt work properly and wouldnt play alot of disks. Asked me to perform a software update, then when i tried to do it get an error message saying patch cannot be installed on this computer.
Lost my patience with it, didnt mess about, demanded refund. once £££ goes back in will decide whether im going to buy a macbook pro now or wait till the inevitable Arrandale updates in January.
The size and weight of the Dell Studio 15 laptop which you can buy with the Core i7 820 in it are:
Dimensions & Weight
Width: 14.6" (371.6mm)
Height: 1.0" (25.3mm) front / 1.5" (38.9mm) back
Depth: 10.0" (252.9mm)
Weight: Starting weight of 5.54 lbs. (2.515 kg) with 15.6” HD TL LED, 6-cell battery, integrated graphics and a DVD+RW drive. Weights will vary depending on configurations and manufacturing variability.
From:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=laptop-studio-1555
The size of the current Mabook Pro is:
Height:
0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width:
14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth:
9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight:
5.5 pounds (2.49 kg)
From here:
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
Not exactly much in it is there? And that's a 820 Core i7! and Windows 7 of course can be put on it when it's released. So IMO if Dell are able to keep it cool then Apple can too.
The Dell with the Core i7 820, 6GB ram, 500GB 7200RPM drive and ATI mobile radeon HP4570 with 512MB ram is £1594.
The 15 Macbook Pro with a 500GB 7200RPM HDD and the Core 2 Duo 3.06 and everything else standard is £2033.
Now that's a massive difference for what is a much less powerful computer from Apple. I'm not going to get into the argument of picking the 2 computers apart and inspecting every little detail, it just shows why some of us are a bit peed that our favourite computer maker won't pull it's finger out it's ass and offer some real power to go with the looks and price.
Dimensions & Weight
Width: 14.6" (371.6mm)
Height: 1.0" (25.3mm) front / 1.5" (38.9mm) back
Depth: 10.0" (252.9mm)
Weight: Starting weight of 5.54 lbs. (2.515 kg) with 15.6” HD TL LED, 6-cell battery, integrated graphics and a DVD+RW drive. Weights will vary depending on configurations and manufacturing variability.
From:
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=laptop-studio-1555
The size of the current Mabook Pro is:
Height:
0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width:
14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth:
9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight:
5.5 pounds (2.49 kg)
From here:
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html
Not exactly much in it is there? And that's a 820 Core i7! and Windows 7 of course can be put on it when it's released. So IMO if Dell are able to keep it cool then Apple can too.
The Dell with the Core i7 820, 6GB ram, 500GB 7200RPM drive and ATI mobile radeon HP4570 with 512MB ram is £1594.
The 15 Macbook Pro with a 500GB 7200RPM HDD and the Core 2 Duo 3.06 and everything else standard is £2033.
Now that's a massive difference for what is a much less powerful computer from Apple. I'm not going to get into the argument of picking the 2 computers apart and inspecting every little detail, it just shows why some of us are a bit peed that our favourite computer maker won't pull it's finger out it's ass and offer some real power to go with the looks and price.
Well my friend has a studio 1555 and it works flawlessly. It's quite a good machine, very quick, his Blu-Ray works fine. There is some flexing and the battery makes things look kinda fat but its not. It's about 6 lbs and he gets 4-5 hours of battery life out of it. He paid 1600 dollars for his machine.
If I didn't need Final Cut I'd probably be getting a Dell laptop with Windows 7 which is an awesome OS (running it now.)
If I didn't need Final Cut I'd probably be getting a Dell laptop with Windows 7 which is an awesome OS (running it now.)
I recently bought one of my kids a Studio15 for college (although not a quad). It's "OK" and she loves it along with Vista but honestly for what she uses it for I wish I'd have just gotten her a mac if only for the build quality. The Dell's keys are "rattling" loosely, the hinges are starting to creak and it's already showing its age after only 5 month. I'm glad I got her the 2 year "bumper-to-bumper" warranty because she'll need it.
I'm really excited about Windows7 and hope it's a big success. Also love all these PC values out there. These kinds of things can only force Apple to keep improving.
I'm really excited about Windows7 and hope it's a big success. Also love all these PC values out there. These kinds of things can only force Apple to keep improving.
i kinda feel like buying a macbook pro but putting windows 7 on it, although that kinda defeats the purpose as to why i'm paying more. The Mac laptops are the ultimate in design and build quality on the outside, just wish the guts would be a little better.
I'm sure others will consider doing this as well but ultimately OSX is what sells macs. I on the other hand am probably one of those rare users that went to the mac for the build quality. I can live with just about any OS for everyday use.
I might be sick in a minute.
Why would anybody in their right voluntarily use windows on a macbook? It's just not right!
Ha! I'm just saying the reason I like the Macs is not necessarily the OS, but the design and sleekness of the computer. If the Dell Studio had OSX, I wouldn't necessarily buy it even if it had a quad/4gb ram, etc.