Kroger Begins Accepting Apple Pay After Years of Holding Out

[echopulse]

I don't see H-E-B getting Apple pay anytime soon. They just replaced all of their pay terminals with non contact free devices. The old ones were capable of tap and pay, they never turned it on at most stores. They test drove Apple pay at a location I shop at for about 6 months and then one day it was turned off, not be seen again anytime soon.

HEB announced at their annual meeting that they would be getting Apple Pay somettime this year. Several employees have verified this statement. Also, those new terminals support contactless. Also, they are upgrading their gas pumps and the new one have contactless readers.

 

[BaldiMac]

AMEX is a great example of the same concept. Discover still has a bit of this problem too.

However, there is more than one post in this thread implying that there is not a cent for Apple in Apple Pay... and we should all naturally know much better than that without having to look it up for any evidence. For anyone in doubt, a simple web search will reveal all.

And I don't think it is idealogical at all. I think it is simple dollars & cents. It costs more than accepting traditional mainstream plastic so some retailers don't want to absorb the added cost.

• Why does it cost more? Because Apple wants a cut.
• How does Apple get that cut? Presumably, the bank adds that "commission" on to the transaction fee.
• Are banks known for their generosity? No. So how do they (re)cover that added cost? Bill the retailer more in transactional fee.
• Do the retailers want to make less on each transaction? No. So how do they cover that added cost?
• Bill us consumers more.

And the buck stops there (or should I say departs there).

As pointed out multiple times, it doesn't cost retailers more. Not sure why you keep repeating this. The percentage that Apple charges the credit card company is offset by a reduction in fraud. There isn't any evidence of an increase in merchant fees. They have remained relatively consistent over the years. The main variable is rewards cards, not Apple Pay. Merchants pay the same fee whether you swipe the card or use Apple Pay.

There are two main reasons that companies don't accept mobile payments. Small businesses that don't upgrade their terminals. And large business that want to track customer purchase across visits.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Walmart one of the last holdouts

People are better off avoiding that trashy place anyway.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I think with iOS 17.0 (which may allow third-party NFC access), we may finally see Home Depot, Lowe's and Walmart allows NFC access--using their own apps.

 

[Alan Wynn]

They probably negotiated a different fee structure for cards in Walmart app.

Nope. Their goal is to get people to use their app and then eventually get them to move to direct payment from their bank account. The second step cannot be accomplished without the first.

Plus you are not anonymous when using Walmart app. That personal info has value to Walmart.

This is another benefit for them.

 

[macintologist]

I rarely take cash back and try to never use cash. The bank I use, for various reasons, is in a different state and has no branches in the state in which I live. So as opposed to paying ATM fees, I just get some cash back at the checkout when needed. I’ve been doing it this way since moving 10+ years ago.

Just change banks to something like Ally Bank or Schwab which reimburses ATM fees.

 

[macintologist]

All these store apps leave me with one question: 'How much of what I do do I want them to know, and possibly try to control, or influence'.

I have only used one store app, and it's about to eject me because they haven't gotten enough of my information lately.

At Target, Worst Try, etc, I use Apple Pay. I see it as my patriotic duty to exclude my personal information from those companies. I'm a customer, not a profit center.

I don't mind the 5% discount. They don't know anything too good about me.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

As pointed out multiple times, it doesn't cost retailers more. Not sure why you keep repeating this. The percentage that Apple charges the credit card company is offset by a reduction in fraud. There isn't any evidence of an increase in merchant fees. They have remained relatively consistent over the years. The main variable is rewards cards, not Apple Pay. Merchants pay the same fee whether you swipe the card or use Apple Pay.

There are two main reasons that companies don't accept mobile payments. Small businesses that don't upgrade their terminals. And large business that want to track customer purchase across visits.

Try a search for "does apple pay increase interchange card fees?" and read the many posts you find. Your post implies that all of those others are lying.

There are even services popping up trying to help small business minimize the added costs of accepting Apple Pay. For example: https://koronapos.com/blog/apple-pay-fees-for-merchants/ (I have no relationship with them, they are just one of many that popped up in search talking about this topic).

I don't fault Apple for making money any way they can. But clearly SOMEONE is paying Apple and whoever that is is not doing so out of generosity. Ultimately, whoever pays the extra for Apple to get that cut eventually gets to the merchants, who then "cover" the added cost with higher prices... or refuse and thus, don't accept Apple Pay. None of the "middlemen" are going to take the hit to give Apple that commission. If anything, they will want to make more themselves (too).

I'll grant that it is indirect (like carriers offering "free iPhones" doesn't mean that they are actually free either) but I just do NOT believe it is solely out of "fraud" savings. If anything, big bank enjoying any such savings is going to keep it for themselves (that kind of maneuvering is HOW big banks have gotten "too big to fail.") And if the only way to profit (too) on such savings is Apple Pay-like tools, big banks will roll out their own versions of Apple Pay to cut an ongoing fee to Apple out: Goldman Sachs Pay, Morgan Stanley Pay, etc.

 

[Alan Wynn]

However, there is more than one post in this thread implying that there is not a cent for Apple in Apple Pay... and we should all naturally know much better than that without having to look it up for any evidence. For anyone in doubt, a simple web search will reveal all.

Please point to a post where it is said that Apple does not make money from Apple Pay. What has been said repeatedly is that the merchant does not pay anything extra when a customer uses Apple Pay. The Apple Pay fees (.15%) are paid by the card issuer.

And I don't think it is idealogical at all. I think it is simple dollars & cents. It costs more than accepting traditional mainstream plastic so some retailers don't want to absorb the added cost.

It does not cost more than accepting swiped or chipped cards. Again, this is simply false.

• Why does it cost more? Because Apple wants a cut.

Just not true. It does not cost more to the merchant. Those credit card processors who started out charging more for contactless payments, did so for all contactless payments, not just for Apple Pay. In addition, the credit card processor did not pay Apple anything, the card issuing bank did.

• How does Apple get that cut? Presumably, the bank adds that "commission" on to the transaction fee.

Nope again. The issuing bank pays for it out of its fraud prevention budget as Apple Pay transactions have a lower incidence of fraud. There is no difference in the fees between non-Apple Pay contactless and Apple Pay contactless to the merchant.

• Are banks known for their generosity? No. So how do they (re)cover that added cost? Bill the retailer more in transactional fee.

Nope. They take the fee out of their fraud prevention budget. If you can find a reputable source that supports your repeated claim, please post a link to it.

• Do the retailers want to make less on each transaction? No. So how do they cover that added cost?

The retailer pays the exact same interchange fee for contactless payments as for swiped or chipped payments. There is no added cost. In most cases, contactless payments are quite a bit faster than chipped payments, speeding customers through the process generating savings.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Anyone interested in truth about this topic, please do searches. There is objective information out there a-plenty about this very topic. I'm not sure why some of us are working hard to imply that the costs of ApplePay are not eventually paid by us users, but whatever. Those interested in (full) truth, seek and ye shall find. There's plenty of stories about this online from seemingly much more objective sources.

Kroger, Walmart, etc are no fools. Their reluctance to accept it are obviously tied to something. Why would they turn away the "I will only buy if I can pay with Applepay" crowd? These entities are not Apple competitors and they readily pay fees to accept payments in forms other than cash & check from other players. They are not too poor to be able to afford updated terminals. So why NOT Apple Pay? The $implest of logic has the answer to that question.

 

[BaldiMac]

Try a search for "does apple pay increase interchange card fees?" and read the many posts you find. Your post implies that all of those others are lying.

There are even services popping up trying to help small business minimize the added costs of accepting Apple Pay. For example: https://koronapos.com/blog/apple-pay-fees-for-merchants/ (I have no relationship with them, they are just one of many that popped up in search talking about this topic).

I don't fault Apple for making money any way they can. But clearly SOMEONE is paying Apple and whoever that is is not doing so out of generosity. Ultimately, whoever pays the extra for Apple to get that cut eventually gets to the merchants, who then "cover" the added cost with higher prices... or refuse and thus, don't accept Apple Pay. None of the "middlemen" are going to take the hit to give Apple that commission. If anything, they will want to make more themselves (too).

I'll grant that it is indirect (like carriers offering "free iPhones" doesn't mean that they are actually free either) but I just do NOT believe it is solely out of "fraud" savings. If anything, big bank enjoying any such savings is going to keep it for themselves (that kind of maneuvering is HOW big banks have gotten "too big to fail.") And if the only way to profit (too) on such savings is Apple Pay-like tools, big banks will roll out their own versions of Apple Pay to cut an ongoing fee to Apple out: Goldman Sachs Pay, Morgan Stanley Pay, etc.

Read the post that you actually linked to. It's about Apple Card. Not Apple Pay.

I searched for your quoted search term and did not find a single article in the top 10 results that supports your position. Like the above link, most of them were about the Apple Card.

Again, merchants pay the same transaction fee whether or not you use Apple Pay.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Read the post that you actually linked to. It's about Apple Card. Not Apple Pay.

I searched for your quoted search term and did not find a single article in the top 10 results that supports your position. Like the above link, most of them were about the Apple Card.

Again, merchants pay the same transaction fee whether or not you use Apple Pay.

I just grabbed one. There are plenty of others. Anyone interested should do a search.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Try a search for "does apple pay increase interchange card fees?" and read the many posts you find. Your post implies that all of those others are lying.

Please post an actual article from a reputable source that shows that Apple Pay charges merchants more than any other contactless payment system. Since you say there are so many, it should be easy to find.

There are even services popping up trying to help small business minimize the added costs of accepting Apple Pay. For example: https://koronapos.com/blog/apple-pay-fees-for-merchants/ (I have no relationship with them, they are just one of many that popped up in search talking about this topic).

That article talks about Apple’s Apple Card, a high rewards card, not about Apple Pay in general. Merchants pay more for high rewards no matter how they are used (swiped, used with a chip reader or via contactless payment).

I don't fault Apple for making money any way they can. But clearly SOMEONE is paying Apple and whoever that is is not doing so out of generosity.

The banks are paying Apple because it lowers the incidence of fraud and so saves them money.

Ultimately, whoever pays the extra for Apple to get that cut eventually gets to the merchants, who then "cover" the added cost with higher prices... or refuse and thus, don't accept Apple Pay. None of the "middlemen" are going to take the hit to give Apple that commission. If anything, they will want to make more themselves (too).

There is no higher fee for Apple Pay contactless payments over non-Apple Pay contactless payments. If you can find a reputable reference that claims something different, please post a link to it.

 

[BaldiMac]

I just grabbed one. There are plenty of others. Anyone interested should do a search.

Per forum rules, please stop just telling us to search. Feel free to post a link.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I just grabbed one. There are plenty of others. Anyone interested should do a search.

You are making the claim, you need to support it. If it is so easy to find, it should be easy for you as well.

 

[compwiz1202]

Kroger pay is an abomination. They don't have any idea how to make something easy or quick. Launching an app and then going into that app to get a QR code to then scan physically is not something you want to see anyone do - it's like the equivalent of seeing someone be told "that'll be 32.50 ma'am" and then seeing them act surprised that they need to pay, and open up their purse to rummage for the chequebook and a pen and start writing. It's like scary slow.

Contactless payment should be standard, and not just Apple Pay. Kroger just are incredibly cheap and won't modernize. It's pretty bad honestly when my 7-11 will take anything but Kroger will not.

Bear in mind that Kroger claimed they did this before in a similar limited market and claimed that there wasn't a lot of desire for it. Don't be fooled - they are only trying to prevent modernization and that expense.

I used to carry cash for local carnivals and fairs, but most of those even take contactless.

 

[compwiz1202]

My Apple Pay wishlist:

- Walmart and Lowes acceptance (or ANY form of tap-to-pay)

- Target allowing Debit RedCard to be added and used in my Apple Wallet

And BB Citi MC need to be allowing in contactless already

 

[compwiz1202]

It’s wild to me that these stores deactivate a feature which they could easily support. Does that mean you can’t do tap to pay with your credit card at those stores either?! Not supporting tap to pay with credit card is like only offering cash. It would alienate so many potential customers here

The worst place is LJSilvers. They don't even take CHIPS yet. I hope they enjoy eating all the fraud.

 

[compwiz1202]

at Sam's Club, scan & go is even better than Apple Pay lmao. I wish all stores would do THAT.

The greatest place with a code was over the weekend at Coopersburg Diner. Scan, pick tip, AP DING DONE!

 

[tmiw]

Anyone interested in truth about this topic, please do searches. There is objective information out there a-plenty about this very topic. I'm not sure why some of us are working hard to imply that the costs of ApplePay are not eventually paid by us users, but whatever. Those interested in (full) truth, seek and ye shall find. There's plenty of stories about this online from seemingly much more objective sources.

Kroger, Walmart, etc are no fools. Their reluctance to accept it are obviously tied to something. Why would they turn away the "I will only buy if I can pay with Applepay" crowd? These entities are not Apple competitors and they readily pay fees to accept payments in forms other than cash & check from other players. They are not too poor to be able to afford updated terminals. So why NOT Apple Pay? The $implest of logic has the answer to that question.

It's not that Apple Pay itself costs more but that contactless payment encourages more use of cards in general, which they've never been huge fans of. Why else was their first attempt at avoiding Apple Pay a payment system (CurrentC) that required you to give the app your bank account details?

Of course, as we're seeing now, they can't hold out forever. Except maybe Walmart, they have enough of a monopoly in some parts of the country where it might actually take Visa and MC mandating contactless acceptance to get them to do it.

 

[compwiz1202]

Good points. Not an Apple Pay issue but things started to go wrong when Walmart entered areas and the residents, attracted by the lower prices, started to do their weekly shop there rather than the local shops who served them well for many years. We only have ourselves to blame. We ask why the local small and medium size business have closed, mainly because we stopped using them to save a few bucks.

The prices are barely lower sometimes, but it's the doing everything you possibly need in one place that makes WM so powerful. I hate them though so I don't go. Way too crowded even with the mimimal savings and convenience. Why have 24 registers with FOUR open????

 

[compwiz1202]

Some of the restaurants I go to for some reason don’t even know they have Apple Pay available until I tell them and then they see that it works.

Walmart definitely needs to get with the program as they’re competitor Target 🎯 has already implemented Apple Pay

I love that especially with the watch. Someone said I was a sorceror once.

 

[compwiz1202]

Kroger charges $5 for curbside pickup.

Target charges $0 for curbside pickup and has ApplePay in both their app and cash registers.

Target wins hands down.

Why charge for curbside??? That's like the one car loan that charged you to pay online. And not a CC, a checking account. I've never had a company other than them do that. Even CC for $25 payments. A car payment is hundreds

 

[compwiz1202]

They are already doing so in other regions of the world, just not yet in the US because the US is behind and still hasn’t even completed the migration to chip (i.e., there are still many businesses using only magnetic stripe). Because of that, no mandate is expected in the US within the next 8-10 years. That’s the expected timeframe for the US to fully move on to chip.

The only business not taking chip here other than no CC at all is LJSilvers. The one I don't get is not wanting Chip and PIN. It's only remembering a four digit number to tons more security. At least make it opt-in for the consumer with some perks to using it.

 

[compwiz1202]

This would seem to be beneficial for any merchant to adopt.

Why would anyone with a proprietary payment system that is already swamped with customer want to change. They get free marketing data and more.