Kroger Begins Accepting Apple Pay After Years of Holding Out

[lartola]

I wonder is it possible for tap-to-pay terminal to only support tap-to-pay credit or debit cards and not support Apple Pay/Google Wallet? That way, nobody has to deal with the fee issues of Apple Pay or Google Wallet.

If it’s at all possible it’s very difficult to do, that’s why they just shut off contactless altogether instead. That being said, what fee issues are you talking about? Neither Apple nor Google charge merchants any fees for accepting their mobile wallets; whatever the merchants’ reason is to not accept mobile wallets it certainly can’t be to save on fees that don’t even exist. Apple only charges participating card issuers for letting their cardholders use apple pay, but not the merchants for accepting it, and I believe Google not even that.

 

[echopulse]

It might be possible soon based on that recent interchange lawsuit settlement that got ironed out.

That said, the only ones who should be having issues with the fees (if anyone) would be the banks. Anything else that would cause merchants to pay more (like being unable to route as anything other than credit) would be a problem with regular contactless too.

It might be possible legally, but is it possible to do with the current hardware?

 

[garyjones027]

I'll never understand some of the stupid decisions these companies make in the US when it comes to payments. Here in the UK it doesn't matter who the payment is made by or what device its paid with as long as you can pay. As long as the store takes contactless which is pretty close to everyone here now then any device that can pay through contactless just works. I work retail and a large amount of transactions are done through phone contactless payments now with the odd Apple Watch payment, so if we decided to block only Apple it would be business suicide.

If your running a business then your number one priority is make money, you don't block a particular payment provider because you don't like it, that's just stupid. I haven't carried a wallet or cash since Apple Pay came out, so close to 9yrs now. So if they don't take contactless through Apple then they've lost a customer.

It is a common thought that all businesses in developed countries accept card payments.

Some businesses in other developed countries, if you do not include the USA, do not like to accept card payments but accept only cash payment.

This is common in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, and Japan. In these developed countries, there are businesses that accept only cash payment. These businesses decided not to accept card payments.

 

[tmiw]

It might be possible legally, but is it possible to do with the current hardware?

I would think it'd be predominantly a software thing that has to be changed. Granted, that would still take a while given how EMV went and all.

 

[SactoGuy18]

It is a common thought that all businesses in developed countries accept card payments.

Some businesses in other developed countries, if you do not include the USA, do not like to accept card payments but accept only cash payment.

This is common in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Portugal, and Japan. In these developed countries, there are businesses that accept only cash payment. These businesses decided not to accept card payments.

While that's still true in much of Japan, they are starting to accept electronic payments using newer contactless payment systems like PayPay.

 

[dozoy]

I didn't know this many people had such staunch opinions on swipe/chip/tap/phone payment methods. I need to carry a wallet anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if I pull out my phone or my wallet. Something is coming out of my pocket.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I didn't know this many people had such staunch opinions on swipe/chip/tap/phone payment methods. I need to carry a wallet anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if I pull out my phone or my wallet. Something is coming out of my pocket.

My car key is in my phone. My house keys are in my phone. My bus and train passes are in my phone. And I live in one of the states that has a mobile ID app as well as Apple Wallet ID. I literally don't need to carry my wallet at all, and most of the time don't.

So when a place doesn't have tap, I walk out the door since I literally don't have any other method to pay you. I keep a $20 bill in my pocket, but I really don't feel like breaking that up unless I absolutely have to, so I just find a different place to do my business.

 

[msackey]

I would love to read a "investigative" journalistic piece about why some stores have been or still are resistant to Apple Pay. As I understand it, Apple Pay is different from NFC credit cards and so if any NFC credit cards are accepted via the NFC route, then Apple Pay would too.

I remember the time when Harris Teeter, I believe, tried to create their own payment app. You would store your credit card details in their app and use their app to pay. Yeah, not doing that. "You" crazy? The more you spread your credit details, the more chances of data breach there are. Furthermore, Harris Teeter is NOT in the business of credit card operations. They are a grocery store. Their bread and butter AND expertise is grocery store operations and that type of thing. Not banking. Not keeping credit card details safe etc.

 

[msackey]

Harris Teeter needs Apple Pay, or even just contactless for that matter. Way behind the times.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1584552216181997570

AHA! Yes, exactly this.

Luckily, it has been a while since Harris Teeter now accepts Apple Pay. I am pretty sure it has been more than 6 months. I feel like they've allowed Apple Pay since at least the end of 2023, if not earlier.

 

[vegetassj4]

AHA! Yes, exactly this.

Luckily, it has been a while since Harris Teeter now accepts Apple Pay. I am pretty sure it has been more than 6 months. I feel like they've allowed Apple Pay since at least the end of 2023, if not earlier.

Yep. I think they rolled it out not long after that post. I've been using it for a while as well.

 

[lartola]

Apple charges more in processing fees than the standard credit card does.

Apple only gets a cut of the standard credit card fee (most sources say 0.15%). And they get it from the CARD ISSUERS NOT THE MERCHANTS.

 

[lartola]

My Apple Pay wishlist:

- Walmart and Lowes acceptance (or ANY form of tap-to-pay)

- Target allowing Debit RedCard to be added and used in my Apple Wallet

Lowes is already rolling it out, I believe.

 

[lartola]

I didn't know this many people had such staunch opinions on swipe/chip/tap/phone payment methods. I need to carry a wallet anyway, so it doesn't matter to me if I pull out my phone or my wallet. Something is coming out of my pocket.

1. Clearly you’ve never owned an apple watch. If you had one you wouldn’t have to pull anything out of your pocket.

2. You have no idea about the added security features that apple pay provides vs using the regular card.

 

[SalisburySam]

I remember the time when Harris Teeter, I believe, tried to create their own payment app.

Yes they did this, and it was a giant step forward from only inserting/swiping credit cards. Even better, ApplePay was enabled just a few short months after and any issue went away. ApplePay today works very well at Harris Teeter, and so does the Harris Teeter solution though I know of no one who still uses the latter.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Yes they did this, and it was a giant step forward from only inserting/swiping credit cards. Even better, ApplePay was enabled just a few short months after and any issue went away. ApplePay today works very well at Harris Teeter, and so does the Harris Teeter solution though I know of no one who still uses the latter.

The Harris Teeter solution is just rebranded Kroger Pay.

Kroger Pay so far is only useful when getting gas.

 

[bousozoku]

Likely because they use custom POS software that don't have the functionality to utilize the NFC capability of the card terminal. Many large chain stores such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowes, and Target have their own software packages, so they would have to pay programmers to add that functionality. It took Lowes quite a while to roll it out, and it's taking HEB a while too.

For a long time, the NFC-capable module was an extra cost. That's why Walmart and the others developed that payment system where you use the camera to link the payment to the POS station. Everyone else has abandoned it, though. It's not exactly horrible but requires setup in the app.

What's bad about NFC in this area is that so many people have stolen cards, that anyone with a card can go to Target or anywhere that accepts contactless payments without a PIN, and make purchases with someone else's money.

 

[dozoy]

1. Clearly you’ve never owned an apple watch. If you had one you wouldn’t have to pull anything out of your pocket.

2. You have no idea about the added security features that apple pay provides vs using the regular card.

1. I've owned two Apple watches. Apple pay was not always compatible with the POS stations wherever I shopped and I got sick of rolling the dice. My card always works. Furthermore, I haven't worn an Apple Watch in over a year. Just got sick of having notifications on my wrist and I think the Garmin watches track activities much better.

2. Good point and something I had completely forgotten about.

 

[tmiw]

For a long time, the NFC-capable module was an extra cost. That's why Walmart and the others developed that payment system where you use the camera to link the payment to the POS station. Everyone else has abandoned it, though. It's not exactly horrible but requires setup in the app.

What's bad about NFC in this area is that so many people have stolen cards, that anyone with a card can go to Target or anywhere that accepts contactless payments without a PIN, and make purchases with someone else's money.

I mean, almost every American credit and debit card doesn't actually need a PIN when inserting, either (minus a few exceptions where the store is forcing debit cards to run "as debit"), so it's not really an added disadvantage.

(And yes, PIN should have been made mandatory when we moved to chip, but that ship's long since sailed. If we had, we'd probably have adopted contactless more quickly.)

 

[bousozoku]

I mean, almost every American credit and debit card doesn't actually need a PIN when inserting, either (minus a few exceptions where the store is forcing debit cards to run "as debit"), so it's not really an added disadvantage.

(And yes, PIN should have been made mandatory when we moved to chip, but that ship's long since sailed. If we had, we'd probably have adopted contactless more quickly.)

Right. It's only other people's money.

I've seen people use multiple cards to buy gift cards.

Recently, someone in the store got between a woman and her purse. Within 15 minutes, her card had been used to buy $400 of merchandise at Home Depot and Ono Hawaiian Barbecue food.

 

[tmiw]

Right. It's only other people's money.

I've seen people use multiple cards to buy gift cards.

Recently, someone in the store got between a woman and her purse. Within 15 minutes, her card had been used to buy $400 of merchandise at Home Depot and Ono Hawaiian Barbecue food.

That could have been someone else stealing the card elsewhere, though. And chip does nothing for online purchases (like what would be done for e.g. ordering food for pickup or having stuff shipped from Home Depot). There's not enough info to know for sure what happened.

Heck, someone could have just gotten lucky and generated the correct info. Some issuers are pretty bad at that (i.e. by issuing card numbers sequentially instead of randomly).

 

[bousozoku]

That could have been someone else stealing the card elsewhere, though. And chip does nothing for online purchases (like what would be done for e.g. ordering food for pickup or having stuff shipped from Home Depot). There's not enough info to know for sure what happened.

Heck, someone could have just gotten lucky and generated the correct info. Some issuers are pretty bad at that (i.e. by issuing card numbers sequentially instead of randomly).

It happened locally, all of it. Unfortunately, the woman took too much time to come to the front of the store to talk to a manager. The police informed the store manager about the purchases. She was also talking to the victim.

 

[tmiw]

It happened locally, all of it. Unfortunately, the woman took too much time to come to the front of the store to talk to a manager. The police informed the store manager about the purchases. She was also talking to the victim.

Regardless, if NFC skimming was that big of a thing, no banks in the US would be issuing contactless cards at all (let alone ones in countries that care way more about security) and if NFC in general was permitted at all, it'd only be through stuff like Apple Pay. After all, they'd literally be setting their own money on fire if they let people just tap their physical cards instead of inserting them.

Though speaking of Apple Pay, apparently Google changed how Google Pay works in Europe by requiring fingerprint/PIN for all purchases, not just larger ones. As it turns out, some people are actually unhappy with this. (Of course, Americans didn't see any difference since PIN/fingerprint has always been required for everything, probably because we as a society already rightfully have a hard time trusting anything new payment-wise. Not to mention that it'd have been seen as less secure than Apple Pay otherwise.)

 

[orangeadrenaline]

The Harris Teeter solution is just rebranded Kroger Pay.

Kroger Pay so far is only useful when getting gas.

Kroger Pay applies your Kroger account and payment method at once. Also, I get 5% cash back when paying via Kroger Pay with my Kroger credit card (and 5% on Apple Pay everywhere, up to $3k a year).

 

[lartola]

1. I've owned two Apple watches. Apple pay was not always compatible with the POS stations wherever I shopped and I got sick of rolling the dice. My card always works. Furthermore, I haven't worn an Apple Watch in over a year. Just got sick of having notifications on my wrist and I think the Garmin watches track activities much better.

2. Good point and something I had completely forgotten about.

That’s weird: usually POS stations that take contactless take apple pay too and work with both the watch and the iphone. I’ve never run into a POS where contactless cards work and apple pay doesn’t. Still, when the watch works it’s much more convenient than using the card or the iphone.

As for the notifications on the watch, you can choose which apps mirror the iphone and which don’t.

 

[lartola]

Regardless, if NFC skimming was that big of a thing, no banks in the US would be issuing contactless cards at all (let alone ones in countries that care way more about security) and if NFC in general was permitted at all, it'd only be through stuff like Apple Pay. After all, they'd literally be setting their own money on fire if they let people just tap their physical cards instead of inserting them.

Though speaking of Apple Pay, apparently Google changed how Google Pay works in Europe by requiring fingerprint/PIN for all purchases, not just larger ones. As it turns out, some people are actually unhappy with this. (Of course, Americans didn't see any difference since PIN/fingerprint has always been required for everything, probably because we as a society already rightfully have a hard time trusting anything new payment-wise. Not to mention that it'd have been seen as less secure than Apple Pay otherwise.)

Actually, americans didn’t see any difference because the majority use iphones and apple pay requires pin/fingerprint/face recognition for every purchase. This unlike Google, which lets or used to let the card issuers set the maximum purchase amount allowed without pin/fingerprint.

Americans would probably complain if they were ever required to use a pin when paying with their credit card. Then they’d notice the difference because they have been using their cards without being asked for a pin all this time.