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Kuo: Apple to Launch Several Macs With Arm-Based Processors in 2021, USB4 Support Coming to Macs in 2022

chucker23n1 said:
You are still making assumptions with very little basis.

Again:

  • why are you so sure running an Intel chip at 100℃ is bad, even though Intel says it's fine?
  • why are you so sure Apple's chips will run at better thermals?
Click to expand...
To address the second point - I guess he wants to say that Apple‘s chips are doing quite good for the thermal envelope they have in a phone/tablet (which is significantly less than in a MacBook Air). So it‘s not too far fetched to believe they could do even better with the cooling capacity of a Notebook.
 
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Nütztjanix said:
To address the second point - I guess he wants to say that Apple‘s chips are doing quite good for the thermal envelope they have in a phone/tablet (which is significantly less than in a MacBook Air). So it‘s not too far fetched to believe they could do even better with the cooling capacity of a Notebook.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if they do better.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they still run at 100℃, though.
 
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PostApple2016BrainWash said:
It's still not safe and the surface can get as hot as 100-degree celsius.
Click to expand...
No it can’t. There is no Mac that has a surface that gets to 100 degrees. There are separate temperature sensors that measure the die junction temperature, the surface, and external. The power management circuit never lets the case get to 100. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

and since nothing the user touches can get to the friggin boiling point of water (see how ridiculous your assertion is?), it’s fine.
 
cmaier said:
No it can’t. There is no Mac that has a surface that gets to 100 degrees. There are separate temperature sensors that measure the die junction temperature, the surface, and external. The power management circuit never lets the case get to 100. That’s a ridiculous assertion.

and since nothing the user touches can get to the friggin boiling point of water (see how ridiculous your assertion is?), it’s fine.
Click to expand...

The bottom of the surface can Get 100-degree celsius.
 
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PostApple2016BrainWash said:
The bottom of the surface can be ridiculously hot.
Click to expand...
Not 100c.

Moreover, you are arguing against a position I never took. Classic straw man. All I said is that it’s fine for the die temperature to get to 100 degrees, and that isn’t dangerous. You disagreed and your argument has morphed to “the bottom of the case is unseasonably warm.”
 
cmaier said:
Not 100c.

Moreover, you are arguing against a position I never took. Classic straw man. All I said is that it’s fine for the die temperature to get to 100 degrees, and that isn’t dangerous. You disagreed and your argument has morphed to “the bottom of the case is unseasonably warm.”
Click to expand...

Let's be honest, 100-degree celsius is a temperature that people dislike on the electronic device.
 
cmaier said:
I am not sure people have any particular opinion on this topic. But the issue isn’t the temperature ON the device. It’s IN the device. And if the best you can come up with is “people don’t like it,” that is no argument at all.
Click to expand...

For over few decades, we can expect some improvement the way CPU work without reaching 100-degree celsius and that's what ARM-Based Macs are going to achieve.
 
gnasher729 said:
An easier solution, if you are using Xcode: By an ARM Mac. In Build Settings, select both x86 and arm. Press Command-R and see the app running. Do some testing before you submit your app to the AppStore.
Click to expand...

Must be those armchair/sofa software developers, CEO’s, lawyers, etc. Boohoo my business critical software that runs on DOS does not run on Windows10. Maybe it’s time to catch the protective train and you should have done something along time ago vice waiting till change is inevitable.
 
Anything in the App Store will just work, since Apple will deliver the correct binary. Apps outside the App store would need porting, but since all software distribution is now online rather than on CD/DVD the issue is smaller than in the past as there isn't the old stock of CDs in the computer store to worry about. Some developers may choose not to support Arm of course, or postpone until the market is larger. Apple will encourage everyone to distribute through the App store.
 
Ashley Stevens said:
Anything in the App Store will just work, since Apple will deliver the correct binary. Apps outside the App store would need porting, but since all software distribution is now online rather than on CD/DVD the issue is smaller than in the past as there isn't the old stock of CDs in the computer store to worry about. Some developers may choose not to support Arm of course, or postpone until the market is larger. Apple will encourage everyone to distribute through the App store.
Click to expand...

Except you fail to notice that
  1. Apple has rules on what it allows on its Store
  2. Those who don't follow those rules, to say nothing of those who don't want to distribute through the App Store, have to jump through hoops just to have something run on MacOS. I have little doubt that Apple will make this harder in the coming years as it tries to centralize control
MacOS development will collapse outside a few big-name devs that Apple is no doubt bribing to continue development.
 
onigami said:
Except you fail to notice that
  1. Apple has rules on what it allows on its Store
  2. Those who don't follow those rules, to say nothing of those who don't want to distribute through the App Store, have to jump through hoops just to have something run on MacOS. I have little doubt that Apple will make this harder in the coming years as it tries to centralize control
MacOS development will collapse outside a few big-name devs that Apple is no doubt bribing to continue development.
Click to expand...

I think that's an accurate point of view. Any ARM Macbook will live in an Apple-enforced walled garden that will server two purposes - Apple will be able to (say they) keep malicious apps off your laptop; and it will also constrain owners from using tools they might want. I agree Apple is increasing the size of these walls as time goes on (locking out 3rd party installs, T2 chips) to the frustration of power users (I need my karabiner).

Will they be successful? We'll see - I want to see what they come up with - but at the same time, I'm thinking AMD will surprise people with their new mobile chips that Apple looks like they're passing on... And they've got more on the way - all while adding incentive to Intel to improve. More competition will only be better for consumers.
 
onigami said:
Except you fail to notice that
  1. Apple has rules on what it allows on its Store
  2. Those who don't follow those rules, to say nothing of those who don't want to distribute through the App Store, have to jump through hoops just to have something run on MacOS. I have little doubt that Apple will make this harder in the coming years as it tries to centralize control
MacOS development will collapse outside a few big-name devs that Apple is no doubt bribing to continue development.
Click to expand...
Makes no sense. If Apple wanted to close up macOS, they‘d do it irrespective of processor architecture.
I heavily doubt your scenario anyways, but again: has nothing to do with ARM or whatever ISA used
 
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09872738 said:
Makes no sense. If Apple wanted to close up macOS, they‘d do it irrespective of processor architecture.
I heavily doubt your scenario anyways, but again: has nothing to do with ARM or whatever ISA used
Click to expand...

It makes sense if you look at Apple as not flicking a switch, and turning a dial. Turning that dial moves the gears that gradually increase the height of their walled garden.

Of course it makes no sense to flick a switch - People would get angry and probably move to windows/linux. But turn that dial slowly, and people might not mind.
 
Instead of seeing a new ARM Mac lineup, I expect Apple to kill the entire lineup shortly after ARM Mac release outside of, you guessed it, Mac Pro. Why? Because iPadOS will BE the OS that Apple has envisioned for every macOS user. Catalina locks down a lot of things and catalyst project ports iPadOS apps to macOS. Apple wants Mac App Store to thrive but failed badly, as we all see. So, they are borrowing iOS App Store library to Mac. A12X is so powerful the synthetic benchmark has higher results than some mid range intel mobile CPU while generating much less heat. Why need to maintain a Mac lineup at all when iPadOS will do almost everything people do nowadays anyway?

Ming-Chi Kuo says ARM Mac in 2021. I’d boldly guess Mac lineup killed in 2025, when iPadOS completely replaces macOS.
 
Shirasaki said:
Instead of seeing a new ARM Mac lineup, I expect Apple to kill the entire lineup shortly after ARM Mac release outside of, you guessed it, Mac Pro. Why? Because iPadOS will BE the OS that Apple has envisioned for every macOS user. Catalina locks down a lot of things and catalyst project ports iPadOS apps to macOS. Apple wants Mac App Store to thrive but failed badly, as we all see. So, they are borrowing iOS App Store library to Mac. A12X is so powerful the synthetic benchmark has higher results than some mid range intel mobile CPU while generating much less heat. Why need to maintain a Mac lineup at all when iPadOS will do almost everything people do nowadays anyway?

Ming-Chi Kuo says ARM Mac in 2021. I’d boldly guess Mac lineup killed in 2025, when iPadOS completely replaces macOS.
Click to expand...

I have a hunch that this is what will happen to some degree. Why port Mac OS to another architecture when you already have an OS that runs great on that architecture. There will need to be some concessions, like a better file manager and better multitasking, but we already see evidence that Apple is on a trajectory of beefing up iPad OS (mouse input support being the latest example).

I very much believe that the first Arm "Mac" that we see next year won't be a traditional Mac, but a beefed up 2 in 1 iPad Pro.
 
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