Kuo: Apple Unlikely to Reveal Mixed Reality Headset at WWDC With a 2023 Launch Still Expected

[DarthBuzzard]

Excuses. It is taking so long because Tim Cook will not release a single thing until they absolutely have to.

So why hasn't it done any of it? Because until a real product comes along that can take advantage of it, it is indeed just a gimmick. VR is gaming gimmick that is pretty bad, and makes most people nauseous. AR needs glasses, or it's useless. No one is going to have an AR experience by holding a viewfinder up to their face.

AR efforts to this point are a total failure. VR efforts to this point are niche gaming at best.

You don't seem to grasp the technology. Meta can't do it any faster. I mean Meta are indeed releasing a competing product this year (Project Cambria), but it will have some limitations that make it not as high-end as the Apple device, and no one else can release a VR/AR device before Apple's 2023 device at the quality they are aiming for.

As for AR being a total failure. It's more like the tech hasn't matured enough to reach a consumer release. This is like calling mobile phones a failure before we even had products you could buy as a consumer.

For VR, it is no longer just a gaming device. You can use it for all sorts of things like travel/telepresence, socialization, exercise. A lot of people with VR are doing these things now. Also, VR gaming is not a gimmick - it has proven its worth.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

I am, but you make good points, it's just the child in me excuse me.

If some of the things you mention actually take off, it may be worth the "game changer" label. However, I feel it's still somewhat gimmicky to be honest, considering it's been around for years already, but we'll see in the future.

The potential is there for sure.

But anyways, thanks for keeping an adult interaction. ?

Well it may have been around for years, but the truth is any technological platform shift takes 10-15 years of constant year-over-year market iterations. We saw this with mobile phones, with consoles, with PCs, and with smartphones.

VR is just early, and really no more advanced than the Commodore 64 was at launch, a time when PCs had no mouse, no GUI, no Internet. The core pieces were missing, and the core pieces for VR are missing today, but the 2023 Apple headset, the 2022 Meta headset, and further iterations throughout the decade will fill in those pieces.

 

[_Spinn_]

Lots of leaks about the AR/VR headset lately but I still wonder if we will ever see it released.

 

[seek3r]

Work from home

Sorry but you can't make something as complicated as a breakthrough VR headset and vrOS when everyone is "working" from home or doing hybrid.

This is why Cook is so adamant about return to office.

Could your customer support rep work from home? Yea.

Could your VR headset team work from home? LOL.

I work on a complex project, the dominant product in the field, involving hundreds of people directly and thousands more that work on things that link in, and we've done so with an *increased* cadence over the past 2 years and change - and even before the pandemic a fair chunk of folks were full WFH. Most of the rest are what has now become known as hybrid (I didn't go into the office every day), and all of us are and were scattered across the country (and the planet) so collab work was already often video calls + emails + etc. If you think you can't work on complicated projects from home you're insane.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Since no rumor source has commented that these are in production yet, it’s reasonable to assume this is at the earliest a 2023 product.

Anyone whom actually believe previous rumora that this would be announced at this years WWDC is x foolish. Just cause a listing of the os in code? Not enough to go one.

Plus the design is but ugly as if it’s childrens swimming goggles - which always had too much vacuum pressure when worn.

Just hope Ian Zelbo is paid for every time Macrumors used his art

 

[bushman4]

It’s obvious that nobody really knows when this is coming out. Maybe Apple is waiting for the pandemic to ease in China or something else
Apple would have to give the developers a few months to take advantage of and prepare for this new product

 

[Realityck]

Plus the design is but ugly as if it’s childrens swimming goggles - which always had too much vacuum pressure when worn.

Why would anyone believe this is a actual representation to what they look like?

 

[CodeSpyder]

Apple developed a great new operating system that used a mouse and it was unlike anything up until that time. Before it was finished, Steve Jobs showed the operating system to his friend Bill Gates. Gates' company, Microsoft, made business software for the Mac and Jobs was hoping that Microsoft would do the same for the new operating system. Instead, Gates stole the idea and announced the Windows operating system well before they had developed anything on it. They beat Apple to the punch and as a result, dominated the Operating System business. I hope Apple doesn't wait too long to announce its AR/VR devices. Just put it out there and state that it'll be coming. They probably have done a ton of work on it and maybe it's time to take a bite out of the AR apple instead of continuing to polish it.

 

[newyorksole]

Lots of leaks about the AR/VR headset lately but I still wonder if we will ever see it released.

I think everything leads to this 1000% coming out. The only time where I recall a lot of rumors and no product was AirPower.

 

[Macative]

You don't seem to grasp the technology. Meta can't do it any faster. I mean Meta are indeed releasing a competing product this year (Project Cambria), but it will have some limitations that make it not as high-end as the Apple device, and no one else can release a VR/AR device before Apple's 2023 device at the quality they are aiming for.

As for AR being a total failure. It's more like the tech hasn't matured enough to reach a consumer release. This is like calling mobile phones a failure before we even had products you could buy as a consumer.

For VR, it is no longer just a gaming device. You can use it for all sorts of things like travel/telepresence, socialization, exercise. A lot of people with VR are doing these things now. Also, VR gaming is not a gimmick - it has proven its worth.

What I grasp is that you are overselling something that has been a total failure to this point, and coming up with excuses for it because you wish to see it succeed. That's not how real life works.

VR absolutely is a gimmick that is not being used for anything other than gaming in ANY consumer space. None. Even in the professional world it is still laughed at as a gimmick, because the experience is lacking. Several people in medicine and aviation that I've discussed it with have told me they have VR applications, but none of them work and none of them do anything except collect dust. No one prefers to use them for anything, because they are just NOT GOOD. It makes no difference what the theoretical potential is. It has FAILED to meet that potential, despite all the resources money can buy.

And AR is something that Apple put out there and then abandoned when they realized they weren't going to convince people to hold the iPhone up to their face to experience it. Do you forget that ARKit had the company's full attention, publicly, for quite a while before being totally shelved? They continue to work on a product that can actually take advantage of AR, but it is even more vaporware than the VR headset is. And if they can't get the tech working yet on a big, clunky headset, how far out do you think glasses are?

 

[Macative]

Imagine being Al Gore’s children and already knowing everything about the headset since their dad got to play with it weeks ago as a board member.

But sure go ahead and believe that Apple would de-escalate the fog of secrecy around the headset to then never speak about it till the end of the year, because “competitors gonna copy it”. Just like they copied the Apple Watch in the months between unveiling and release, amirite.

I agree that it seems impossibly unlikely that the board got a demo last week and there is no intention of talking it about at WWDC. Or even some point before the end of the year.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

What I grasp is that you are overselling something that has been a total failure to this point, and coming up with excuses for it because you wish to see it succeed. That's not how real life works.

VR absolutely is a gimmick that is not being used for anything other than gaming in ANY consumer space. None. Even in the professional world it is still laughed at as a gimmick, because the experience is lacking. Several people in medicine and aviation that I've discussed it with have told me they have VR applications, but none of them work and none of them do anything except collect dust. No one prefers to use them for anything, because they are just NOT GOOD. It makes no difference what the theoretical potential is. It has FAILED to meet that potential, despite all the resources money can buy.

And AR is something that Apple put out there and then abandoned when they realized they weren't going to convince people to hold the iPhone up to their face to experience it. Do you forget that ARKit had the company's full attention, publicly, for quite a while before being totally shelved? They continue to work on a product that can actually take advantage of AR, but it is even more vaporware than the VR headset is. And if they can't get the tech working yet on a big, clunky headset, how far out do you think glasses are?

I am not overselling it. I am very clearly telling you it is early which means a clear take-away from my comment is that the tech isn't ready for average people yet. That said, I am truthfully stating how it is being used today, which I will discuss more below.

If VR is a gimmick used for only gaming, then why are a bunch of the most popular VR apps actually social apps? Rec Room in particular has millions of monthly VR users. We don't know the numbers for Beat Saber, but that is the only game that would be close. You are so confident to phrase this as "None" "in ANY consumer space" and yet social apps in VR might just be the most popular active use for headsets today.

I don't know who you are talking to in industry, but there is real software being used with real benefits. Case in point:

Virtual reality and pain management: current trends and future directions

Virtual reality (VR) has been used to manage pain and distress associated with a wide variety of known painful medical procedures. In clinical settings and experimental studies, participants immersed in VR experience reduced levels of pain, general distress/unpleasantness ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And if no one prefers any of the uses for VR, why are we seeing people who state their lives have changed because of VR? People who lost weight, people who overcame anxiety, people who literally cure their neurological disorder, people who found incredible value during the pandemic lockdowns where they could freely travel virtually, meet friends in an immersive way, go to concerts. Heck, even just tons of people and reviews of VR game ports where people prefer it over the original non-VR version.

Apple never imagined mobile AR would be the gateway to making it this mass adopted platform that would change all sorts of industries. Mobile AR has mostly been a testing bed for computer vision capabilities and design learning while AR glasses develop in R&D. Yes, the glasses are quite a ways off in terms of an all-day normal-looking pair of glasses that work well for average people. That doesn't mean the tech is a failure - it means AR glasses haven't even begun as a consumer technology.

 

[Macative]

I am not overselling it. I am very clearly telling you it is early which means a clear take-away from my comment is that the tech isn't ready for average people yet. That said, I am truthfully stating how it is being used today, which I will discuss more below.

If VR is a gimmick used for only gaming, then why are a bunch of the most popular VR apps actually social apps? Rec Room in particular has millions of monthly VR users. We don't know the numbers for Beat Saber, but that is the only game that would be close. You are so confident to phrase this as "None" "in ANY consumer space" and yet social apps in VR might just be the most popular active use for headsets today.

I don't know who you are talking to in industry, but there is real software being used with real benefits. Case in point:

Virtual reality and pain management: current trends and future directions

Virtual reality (VR) has been used to manage pain and distress associated with a wide variety of known painful medical procedures. In clinical settings and experimental studies, participants immersed in VR experience reduced levels of pain, general distress/unpleasantness ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And if no one prefers any of the uses for VR, why are we seeing people who state their lives have changed because of VR? People who lost weight, people who overcame anxiety, people who literally cure their neurological disorder, people who found incredible value during the pandemic lockdowns where they could freely travel virtually, meet friends in an immersive way, go to concerts. Heck, even just tons of people and reviews of VR game ports where people prefer it over the original non-VR version.

Apple never imagined mobile AR would be the gateway to making it this mass adopted platform that would change all sorts of industries. Mobile AR has mostly been a testing bed for computer vision capabilities and design learning while AR glasses develop in R&D. Yes, the glasses are quite a ways off in terms of an all-day normal-looking pair of glasses that work well for average people. That doesn't mean the tech is a failure - it means AR glasses haven't even begun as a consumer technology.

Everything you've cited is empty vapor, and more attempts to exaggerate. Rec Room does not have millions have monthly VR users. VR is not the only way to access it. And so far it is nothing but a proof of concept, free service. For you to use this as evidence is scary. Did you think I just didn't know what it was? Lol.

And then you try to use 1 article with a success story as...what? Evidence of widespread usage of VR in the business world? No. It isn't widespread, and most of the deployments that were intended to be widespread are unused.

Peoples lives changed because of VR? It sounds like you are literally plucking the success stories of other actually successful categories, and attributing them to VR, because you want them to be true. Fact is, the general public does not care about VR.

Oh and now Mobile AR is "just a test bed". Interesting word for failure. But exactly what I would expect from you.

 

[richinaus]

What I grasp is that you are overselling something that has been a total failure to this point, and coming up with excuses for it because you wish to see it succeed. That's not how real life works.

VR absolutely is a gimmick that is not being used for anything other than gaming in ANY consumer space. None. Even in the professional world it is still laughed at as a gimmick, because the experience is lacking. Several people in medicine and aviation that I've discussed it with have told me they have VR applications, but none of them work and none of them do anything except collect dust. No one prefers to use them for anything, because they are just NOT GOOD. It makes no difference what the theoretical potential is. It has FAILED to meet that potential, despite all the resources money can buy.

And AR is something that Apple put out there and then abandoned when they realized they weren't going to convince people to hold the iPhone up to their face to experience it. Do you forget that ARKit had the company's full attention, publicly, for quite a while before being totally shelved? They continue to work on a product that can actually take advantage of AR, but it is even more vaporware than the VR headset is. And if they can't get the tech working yet on a big, clunky headset, how far out do you think glasses are?

I agree.
We are the prime candidate for VR. Spatial and object design, and to date the experience has been turd.

Hopefully the Quest Cambria is an improvement, otherwise it will be left on the shelf like the others, waiting for my 10 year old to play beat sabre.

In my view Apple need to do the following [and announce it at WWDC] :

A new app aimed at VR and AR [XR] creation built on unity engine. Remove the clutter, keep it a pro app, and simple to use. Allow creatives be able to use this app and make amazing experiences.

Otherwise the metaverse will remain a gamers heaven, but not suitable for the 'average user'.

 

[senttoschool]

I work on a complex project, the dominant product in the field, involving hundreds of people directly and thousands more that work on things that link in, and we've done so with an *increased* cadence over the past 2 years and change - and even before the pandemic a fair chunk of folks were full WFH. Most of the rest are what has now become known as hybrid (I didn't go into the office every day), and all of us are and were scattered across the country (and the planet) so collab work was already often video calls + emails + etc. If you think you can't work on complicated projects from home you're insane.

What’s the product?

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Everything you've cited is empty vapor, and more attempts to exaggerate. Rec Room does not have millions have monthly VR users. VR is not the only way to access it. And so far it is nothing but a proof of concept, free service. For you to use this as evidence is scary. Did you think I just didn't know what it was? Lol.

And then you try to use 1 article with a success story as...what? Evidence of widespread usage of VR in the business world? No. It isn't widespread, and most of the deployments that were intended to be widespread are unused.

Peoples lives changed because of VR? It sounds like you are literally plucking the success stories of other actually successful categories, and attributing them to VR, because you want them to be true. Fact is, the general public does not care about VR.

Oh and now Mobile AR is "just a test bed". Interesting word for failure. But exactly what I would expect from you.

Empty vapor, huh? Well prepare for a barrage of links.

Rec Room certainly has millions of monthly active VR users. https://www.roadtovr.com/rec-room-monthly-active-vr-users-3-million-peak/

While it has lots of non-VR users, I am still correct in citing the 'millions of monthly VR users' number.

I never said VR was widespread in business. This is you inserting words. I said it is being used and has real benefits.

As for peoples lives changed because of VR, you need only look at the many heart-warming stories:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MadeMeSmile/comments/rtqzxw

https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/mwizqf

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4kkhnp

After using fitness video game to lose 70 pounds, woman becomes in-game guest coach

Chesney Mariani dreamed of becoming a guest coach in Supernatural, a virtual reality fitness game. Then, it happened.

www.today.com

And need only look at the studies and papers:

Benefits of VR fitness: https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7312871/

Frontiers | Can Simulated Nature Support Mental Health? Comparing Short, Single-Doses of 360-Degree Nature Videos in Virtual Reality With the Outdoors

Nature exposure in virtual reality (VR) can provide emotional well-being benefits for people who cannot access the outdoors. Little is known about how these ...

www.frontiersin.org

Nature in virtual reality improves mood and reduces stress: evidence from young adults and senior citizens - Virtual Reality

Large populations worldwide have been deprived from nature experiences due to mass quarantines and lockdowns during the COVID-19 pandemic, and face a looming mental health crisis. Virtual reality offers a safe and practical solution to increase nature exposure. This research examined the effects...

link.springer.com

Pain suppression:

Virtual reality and pain management: current trends and future directions

Virtual reality (VR) has been used to manage pain and distress associated with a wide variety of known painful medical procedures. In clinical settings and experimental studies, participants immersed in VR experience reduced levels of pain, general distress/unpleasantness ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Virtual reality as an analgesic for acute and chronic pain in adults: a systematic review and meta-analysis

Background: Previous studies have shown that virtual reality (VR) is effective in reducing acute and chronic pain both in adults and in children. Given the emergence of new VR technology, and the growing body of research surrounding VR and pain management, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

VR's usage and gains in training and education:

The Applications of Virtual Reality Technology in Medical Groups Teaching

Virtual reality is a new method for training different medical groups. Based on this technology, professionals and students of various medical sciences can determine their level of competence for medical treatment before any performance on the patient. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360131519301563

Learning in virtual reality: Effects on performance, emotion and engagement

www.readcube.com

Mobile AR is something that I barely care about. If it all but disappeared tomorrow with no support anywhere, I wouldn't be bummed, especially since passthrough AR headsets are starting to become more feasible before we arrive at AR glasses. Mobile AR was never meant to be this world-changing shift as it was clear pretty early on that the potential of AR in a small 2D screen is leagues less than that of AR glasses.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

And we hit the thumbs down wall again.

Will we ever get a logical discussion?

 

[Macative]

And we hit the thumbs down wall again.

Will we ever get a logical discussion?

Not as long as your entire argument centers around delusion and ignores all reality.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Not as long as your entire argument centers around delusion and ignores all reality.

How many personal accounts have I included of people who have told their story about how VR has changed their lives? Quite a few.

How many papers and studies have I provided showing the benefits of VR and the uses it can have in business? Also quite a few.

Are you going to denounce all of that as delusion? You're going to put down each study, and invalidate what those consumers feel?

The problem, I feel, is that you are too emotionally invested in being right that any evidence provided against your points is ignored. You can't accept anything that contradicts what you've always known, because you don't want to admit to being wrong on this. That's emotionally-driven. Where's the logic?

 

[Moonlight]

How many personal accounts have I included of people who have told their story about how VR has changed their lives? Quite a few.

How many papers and studies have I provided showing the benefits of VR and the uses it can have in business? Also quite a few.

Are you going to denounce all of that as delusion? You're going to put down each study, and invalidate what those consumers feel?

It is not worth arguing with this entity anymore. They are dug in to their myopic viewpoint and can't even acknowledge facts, and the history of tech, let a lone what is happening today with tech.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

It is not worth arguing with this entity anymore. They are dug in to their myopic viewpoint and can't even acknowledge facts, and the history of tech, let a lone what is happening today with tech.

Yeah, definitely seems that way.

 

[return2sendai]

Will it come with a snorkel?

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple developed a great new operating system that used a mouse and it was unlike anything up until that time. Before it was finished, Steve Jobs showed the operating system to his friend Bill Gates. Gates' company, Microsoft, made business software for the Mac and Jobs was hoping that Microsoft would do the same for the new operating system. Instead, Gates stole the idea and announced the Windows operating system well before they had developed anything on it. They beat Apple to the punch and as a result, dominated the Operating System business. I hope Apple doesn't wait too long to announce its AR/VR devices. Just put it out there and state that it'll be coming. They probably have done a ton of work on it and maybe it's time to take a bite out of the AR apple instead of continuing to polish it.

Microsoft did make office apps for the Macintosh: word and an early version of excel by a different name.

And the reason they dominated the operating system business was due to server oS and active directory marking directly to corporations.


Most users get the PC oS they’re used to at work.

 

[ian87w]

They desperately need to dump Tim Cook for someone who has a go go go mentality. This guy's only goal is to find ways to release as little as possible while still making money.

With the way the current Apple is breaking revenue records quarter over quarter, I doubt any of the board of directors would mind.

 

[dgdosen]

Maybe they don't release "realityOS" at WWDC, but update all the frameworks that might be common to realityOS and iPadOS/iOS/macOS...

I hear these rumors about tiles at WWDC - maybe the tiles become a common way to interact with realityOS on a mac, or on some future glasses-like thingy. Kind of like the cards for the event announcement or in that Minority Report documentary.