Kuo: Apple Watch Series 7 Missed Body Temperature Monitoring Due to Algorithm Problems, but Feature Could Still Come to Series 8

[EugW]

You can’t expect a thinner chassis to have the same battery life and more advanced sensors. That being said, if they released a much thinner version with more basic functionality, I might buy just to use in formal situations. I don’t see them creating different segments within the category though.

Well, that's just it. I don't want O2 and BP and glucose 'wellness' sensors. I want a thinner Watch.

I know we won't get it anytime soon, but I'm just saying the watch just feels kinda chunky (and I have the 40 mm version too).

I do want the heart rhythm monitor though, since that's actually accurate, and useful.

Yes it’s class 2 as a notification device. While one could argue it might give patients a heads up about something drastically wrong, it’s not going to be used by clinicians as a diagnostic device. They’ll use actual medical equipment for that. Which was the point of my original comment. It’s excellent marketing but people should be conservative with their expectations when it comes to the value of the Apple Watch as a medical device/diagnostic tool.

The Watch works well for detection of a. fib. In this particular situation, it does exactly what it is supposed to do. I'm not sure what else you are getting at. No, emerg departments aren't going have a cache of Apple Watches to strap on patients when they get admitted, but that's not the point of course. These are small always-on outpatient devices, with a very limited but nonetheless useful repertoire of clinical applications.

 

[senttoschool]

Been saying the same thing since the beginning, it was also easy to predict that WFH would severely affect software quality. Same as when they migrated to the spaceship, whenever people aren’t in their offices or on the move quality takes a dip, this shouldnt surprise anyone but oh well, looking at the people that dislike your comment…

People who dislike my comments are the ones feeling threatened because they're slacking while "working" from home.

 

[senttoschool]

I agree you can't R&D WFH but Hybrid is not a bad idea. There is a good amount of report writing that needs to get done and research that 2 days a week WFH is not bad. Those 2 days get used for review meetings, writing, research/reading etc.

Hybrid is even worse than remote. Need to have a spontaneous quick meeting? Can't. You need a conference room and ask everyone remotely if they're free to join. Or you have it in person and don't include the remote folks. It's a nightmare.

Even 100% remote is better than hybrid.

 

[senttoschool]

Here's some more conjecture for you. M1 Macs came out in November, 2020, and my M1 Mini is the best computer I've ever owned. That was the end of the pipeline but clearly some execution was successful in the preceding 18 months. On the other hand, the Apple Watch has been stagnant since Series 4, which came out in September, 2018. Working at the office didn't do much for it in the ensuing 18 months (estimating lockdowns/teleworking started in March, 2020).

M1 Macs were probably worked and finished before the pandemic even started. All they had to do was put some finishing touches on it.

But since the pandemic, we've had really poor quality software, delays to MBP 14/16, delays to showing AR/VR OS and hardware, delays to more ambitious Apple Watch sensors, long delays to features announced at WWDC like Universal Control, reports of Apple Car going nowhere. Perhaps we would have had M2 Macs by now.

Heck, Universal Control was announced nearly a year ago and it's still in beta today.

 

[falainber]

I can't trust a thermometer that needs an algorithm to measure my temperature. AW already has enough inaccurate sensors. What's the point in adding more?

 

[j_in_tx]

You have one?

no, I’m done with Samsung. I’ve had plenty of (crappy) experiences.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Being sick does not mean you have a fever, necessarily.

Sure thing but if you do have a fever then it's a fair bet you will feel sick. This isn't like detecting heart rhythm issues that can go undetected and literally can spell doom. Core temperature fluctuates all the time and any attempts to use software algorithms to predict your impending death are just going to result in more health paranoia. That's not to say it wouldn't have its uses for some folk, but I think for the majority it'll either be a gimmick or just give them something else to worry about.

All only in my considered opinion, of course.

 

[Rainshadow]

Again that’s not how that works. If anything it bogs down the hospital networks when someone comes into the ER and says ‘my Apple Watch EKG is saying I’m dying’ trustttttt me these things aren’t helpful in terms of direct medical diagnostics so in the end what are they really for?

Yea. I don’t trust you. If there’s an abnormality… go to the doc. Maybe not the ER, but still. That’s your job. That’s all we need is folks afraid of getting a checkup or bringing a concern to their doctor. Don’t guilt trip folks for being conscientious about their health. No one is talking about the hypochondriac. There will always be people that over-worry. Doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t have an early warning product that may convince us to see a doc once every 5 years like most healthy, active folks tend to do.

 

[svish]

Will be good if it is in this year’s watch. Wonder what other new features will be present this year.

 

[adrianlondon]

Is it something that is easily detachable when its taking a reading? Because that's my issue. I have white-coat-syndrome, so if I know it's reading, it won't work for me.

It's worn like a watch. It takes a reading every hour or so, although it doesn't appear to take any readings when it determines you're "active". I appear to be an "active" person as it only took a couple of readings yesterday after I started wearing it, although it did take a few overnight.

I've not read the section on their webpage detailing how it works, but there's definitely no indication at all that it's taking any reading. Imagine it like the AW telling you your heart-rate.

 

[redbeard331]

Not saying it couldn't be done with AirPods, but I certainly wouldn't want them stuck in my ears all night. If I don't do that, I'd not see temperature oddities which occur overnight.

(I'd not even want anything in my ears most of the time I am not in bed either. But at least we could put them in/take them out as often as we wish.)

In some countries, rectal is strongly advocated. Let's see what Apple can do...

Very simple solution, Apple can just make a Bluetooth suppository that you remove whenever you have to go to the toilet.

 

[JM]

Sure thing but if you do have a fever then it's a fair bet you will feel sick. This isn't like detecting heart rhythm issues that can go undetected and literally can spell doom. Core temperature fluctuates all the time and any attempts to use software algorithms to predict your impending death are just going to result in more health paranoia. That's not to say it wouldn't have its uses for some folk, but I think for the majority it'll either be a gimmick or just give them something else to worry about.

All only in my considered opinion, of course.

Ah, now your core argument here I agree with… somewhat.

There’s merit to the argument that constantly being aware of a fluctuating body temperature (using tech that isn’t 100% accurate) can cause paranoia. And, it being a gimmick for most people is probably true.

But, I argue that body temp at 98% accuracy would be better than nothing. I don’t need the blood oxygen reader, but have used it out of curiosity when I’m feeling crummy. The same with the EKG. I don’t need either…. But checking body temp within a range of +\- 1 degrees taken from a sample of (let’s say) three readings in five minutes, would help me determine if I am over the 98.6 normal body temp or not.

 

[jicon]

I went from S2 to S5 and it’s night and day. The series 2 was so slow it was laughable, and the battery only lasted about half the day. I love my S5 but am still hoping to upgrade to the S8 if there are some worthy changes. I decided to skip the S6, so when the S7 was discovered to be essentially the same as the S6 I decided to skip the S7 too. Really hopeful S8 brings something new to the table or at least a faster processor and better battery life.

I think there's two significant barriers... Apps running from the watch will consume CPU, and consequently any ability to sip the precariously available battery life.

So the likelihood is that until there is significant gain in battery to help power all day increases in CPU use, we're relegated to somewhat insignificant 3rd party app development, still tied to the phone, and same watch complication limits.

It's likely the best notification device right now, but anything on top of that including health sensors are seldom used 'features' that are not deemed medically accurate, with frequent algorithmic changes further muddying results-though you could argue some significant change is at least warranted enough to see a doctor(?).

 

[MrMojo1]

A good upgraded feature would be blood pressure monitoring.
It’ll be interesting to see what type of wristband that Apple would create to help with that monitoring.
Otherwise my S5 is still good including battery health, hopefully a battery replacement is available still in year or so.

 

[macsound1]

People who dislike my comments are the ones feeling threatened because they're slacking while "working" from home.

Do you think people aren't slacking when they're at the office? Apple has some great snacks, drinks, and grounds that make you want to be away from your desk as often as possible.

The constant in office distractions specifically including people's inability to schedule meetings ahead of time makes it so you have even less time to "work".

I do agree that hybrid is somewhat worse because everyone has to change gears when they're coming in or not.

 

[_Spinn_]

UV exposure monitoring? How would that work? Where would the sensor be? What if your wrist is in a shadow but your face isn’t? Like in a sleeve? How accurate could a sensor be if it’s is moving and UV light gets defused constantly?

Environmental sound monitoring already has those same problems.

• Clothing can muffle the environmental sounds that you are exposed to - especially winter jackets when blowing out the snow.
• When mowing my lawn my wrist is close enough to my lawnmower to trigger a warning but when I put the watch near my head the sound level is low enough to not trigger a warning. I wear ear protection anyway so I'm not really "exposed" to the sound anyway.

At least where I am UV exposure would really only be a big issue in the summer when clothing is not going to cover the sensor anyway.

 

[kc9hzn]

I went from S2 to S5 and it’s night and day. The series 2 was so slow it was laughable, and the battery only lasted about half the day. I love my S5 but am still hoping to upgrade to the S8 if there are some worthy changes. I decided to skip the S6, so when the S7 was discovered to be essentially the same as the S6 I decided to skip the S7 too. Really hopeful S8 brings something new to the table or at least a faster processor and better battery life.

I went from an S0 to an S3 then to an S5. The S0 was an absolute dog, it was a minimum viable product for the Apple Watch team. The S3 felt quick enough in most use, and the OS’s updates were a legitimate upgrade to speeding up the process of actually using the watch. The S5 has some speed upgrades, but it’s not really noticeable to me since I mostly use the watch for lightweight apps (no games and very little media use), fitness, notifications, and as a watch. The always-on screen was a game changer, though.

The S0 was nigh on unusable for third party apps, even native apps ran very slow. (The non-native apps running on an iPhone? Downright painful…) The S3 was a night and day difference, and the S5 feels about the same as an S3 for my day to day use (well, except for the fact that the S5 is pushing more pixels than the S3, of course). It would probably feel faster if I tended to use heavier apps on my watch, but I don’t.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

Environmental sound monitoring already has those same problems.

• Clothing can muffle the environmental sounds that you are exposed to - especially winter jackets when blowing out the snow.
• When mowing my lawn my wrist is close enough to my lawnmower to trigger a warning but when I put the watch near my head the sound level is low enough to not trigger a warning. I wear ear protection anyway so I'm not really "exposed" to the sound anyway.

At least where I am UV exposure would really only be a big issue in the summer when clothing is not going to cover the sensor anyway.

The sensors would still not work accurately because of how even the light that gets to the Watch will be defused by the Saphire screen. Actually, I don’t know about Saphire, but normal glass blocks almost all UV light, if we presume Saphire isn’t much different the sensor can’t be behind next to the screen (which would probably already not work because of place constraints) so it would need a separate place and module, which isn’t goin to happen. First off, space. A lot of people won’t use that feature (I assume) so it might not be worth the RnD and space for them to consider it in the Watch, also position, where would you position it?
Above the screen obviously. But what about people wearing the Watch upside down on their other wrist?
UV won’t happen. Quote me when it does.

 

[WeatherWeasel]

especially blood pressure will be a game changer.

I got an ad from a medical supply showing a watch that does BP. that is all it does, and it looks like there is a sensor, the band inflates and so on, yeah I passed on it as I have a Withings,

 

[Thebrochure]

It's worn like a watch. It takes a reading every hour or so, although it doesn't appear to take any readings when it determines you're "active". I appear to be an "active" person as it only took a couple of readings yesterday after I started wearing it, although it did take a few overnight.

I've not read the section on their webpage detailing how it works, but there's definitely no indication at all that it's taking any reading. Imagine it like the AW telling you your heart-rate.

Thank you! I'll look into it.

 

[Unami]

I went from S2 to S5 and it’s night and day. The series 2 was so slow it was laughable, and the battery only lasted about half the day. I love my S5 but am still hoping to upgrade to the S8 if there are some worthy changes. I decided to skip the S6, so when the S7 was discovered to be essentially the same as the S6 I decided to skip the S7 too. Really hopeful S8 brings something new to the table or at least a faster processor and better battery life.

yeah, it's faster when loading apps. Still, I was pretty underwhelmed - in my day to day activities - using the watch as a watch, siri, stop-watch, timer, playback control and workouts - there hasn't really been a big jump. but different folks probably rate that differently. I'd also say that the iphone 13`s cam is - while better than let's say the iphone 6`s - more or less still living in the same ballpark of not so good cameras, while others praise that it's better than ever.

 

[imola.zhp]

I'm guessing they'll get it figured out and release it for S8 and it will probably work on S7 (and perhaps older models) but they'll keep it for S8 and newer to get people to upgrade. Semi-planned obsolescence.

 

[Bmoreguy03]

I really wish i would have waited thats a good feature

 

[_Spinn_]

UV won’t happen. Quote me when it does.

I don't think it will either. Honestly it seems like Apple has stalled out on the Watch. I don't see many more sensors being added in the near future.

 

[syklee26]

I just want a thinner Apple Watch.

The 10.7 mm thickness of my Series 5 (and the current Series 7) is just far, far too thick.

I actually want it the other way; I want it thicker so it can last a whole week (maybe longer) without charging.