Kuo: iPhone 13 to Feature LEO Satellite Communications to Make Calls and Texts Without Cellular Coverage

[Kierkegaarden]

Since the functionality comes from qualcomm, not so much from Apple, it’s not clear to me how much R&D they put in. In any event, apple is big on saving lives, and this technology would certainly save some lives, and would be very helpful in natural disasters, war zones, etc., of which there are more and more.

The report states the X60 chip being used is “customized”, so this made me think Apple might be incorporating something interesting and unexpected into it.

But that probably doesn’t make sense given the fact that Apple plans to make their own modem chips in the future — so anything groundbreaking would wait until this happens.

The r&d team the report references maybe has more to do with their in-house modem plans.

I have no idea, and this is out my realm of knowledge. Interesting though.

 

[entropys]

No, this is how they really look.View attachment 1825077

Yeah, my iridium sat phone is not too different, way out of date tech ripe for a disruption paradigm shift.
To use globalStar or iridium the iphone would still need a big antenna, with this rumoured chip Apple could just build one into an external case connecting via the lightning port if such a service was needed. I pay about $10 a month for access, emergencies only. Flaky as hell. Rain, trees, hills all kill it. If you wanted to use it a lot fir texts or phone calls the service can be quite expensive.

What would be interesting would be if such a large antenna would still be needed for LEO like starlink.

 

[aajeevlin]

just a question , cause i don’t know this “Leo” firm:

I’m an hiker and i have a subscription with Garmin for emergency satellite communications (with the Garmin InReach Mini).

The service is powered by the Iridium Satellite Network, that has a global coverage.

so, this is the question;
IF CONFIRMED (i know is tricky to comment rumors), this feature could be a substitute of Garmin Satellite Services?

This “Leo network” has a good coverage?
My subscription with Garmin is monthly of 15 dollar, i’d like to understand if could be a good deal and what kind of satellite’s service could provides (eg Garmin in my actual subcription offers texts but not calls)

EDIT:

sorry: i didn’t have my glasses, i read now that the satellite partner could be the well know Globalstar, and Leo is just the kind of technology
So, just finger crossed, could be a game changer feature for several applications...

LEO is not the type of technology. It is the height of the orbit. LEO, stands for Low Earth Orbit, as suppose to MEO Medium Earth Orbit. It’s just where the position of the satellite in Earth orbit. Different orbit type offers various adventure and disadvantage.

Think as the size of the orbit for a circular orbit.

 

[glsillygili]

Can't believe the iPhone 12 is already a year old already.

That's because it isn't

 

[ridgezin]

This would be a game changer for us. We would immediately replace all of our iPhones with new ones. We live in a remote mountain community with no cell coverage, and poor internet in general. We use WiFi calling when at home, but the phones are useless as soon as we exit our driveway. Even having basic text or phone service would be vital to residents, first responders, etc. I really hope that this is true. Even of the capability is very minimal, it would enable communications that do not exist at all today for us.

 

[Drakesta]

Globalstar is not the right partner. As others have said, the antennae and power requirements for that connectivity are unreasonable for an iphone.
My money is on ASTS as a partner. They have LEO satellite arrays that don't require massive signal output from target smartphones and maintain connectivity better. If you have a mesh or on ground repeater, you introduce delays and complexity that would be easier solved by just adding another cell tower...which entirely defeats the purpose of this technology.

 

[cmaier]

The report states the X60 chip being used is “customized”, so this made me think Apple might be incorporating something interesting and unexpected into it.

But that probably doesn’t make sense given the fact that Apple plans to make their own modem chips in the future — so anything groundbreaking would wait until this happens.

The r&d team the report references maybe has more to do with their in-house modem plans.

I have no idea, and this is out my realm of knowledge. Interesting though.

Yeah, no idea what “customized” means, but we can be reasonably sure that any customizations, while perhaps requested by Apple, were not designed by apple.

 

[name99]

Iridium and Globalstar are NOT in LEO; they are in MEO orbits; much higher. It is BECAUSE they are in such high orbits that they don’t have the low-latency required for high-speed internet interactions, and why Starlink’s orbits, for one, are so low.

Dave Huntsman

Oh FFS dude.
From the damn IRIDIUM home page: https://www.iridium.com/network/

"The Iridium constellation is in Low-Earth Orbit (LEO), approximately 780 kilometers (485 miles) above the Earth"

I have no idea why, of all hills, this is the one you chose upon which to die.

 

[aajeevlin]

Oh FFS dude.
From the damn IRIDIUM home page: https://www.iridium.com/network/

"The Iridium constellation is in Low-Earth Orbit (LEO), approximately 780 kilometers (485 miles) above the Earth"

I have no idea why, of all hills, this is the one you chose upon which to die.

Yea I don’t know what that guy is on about. Iridium is LEO and has always been.

Source: the internet and this is basically my field of work.

 

[aajeevlin]

Globalstar is not the right partner. As others have said, the antennae and power requirements for that connectivity are unreasonable for an iphone.
My money is on ASTS as a partner. They have LEO satellite arrays that don't require massive signal output from target smartphones and maintain connectivity better. If you have a mesh or on ground repeater, you introduce delays and complexity that would be easier solved by just adding another cell tower...which entirely defeats the purpose of this technology.

ASTS is YEARS behind. Even if they are done figuring out the 4G/5G technology. They have to build out everything, infrastructure, operation, the whole nine yard. In order for them to get to the level which they can at least cover North America Id say at least two years if not longer.

 

[synergize]

All you have to do is plug this 8ft antenna into the lightning port and you're set!

...and get used to saying "can you hear me now."

 

[Woochoo]

There's no way that Apple would stick this niche tech into every iPhone.

This sounds like one of those bogus pieces of information that's designed to find the leaker.

LIDAR came for Pro iPhones, and is a more "special" feature as a laser imaging system in a phone. If the satellite calls is true, it will come for Pro versions aswell not for all models.

 

[Millah]

I call total BS on this guess/prediction. LEOs are in a very low orbit and will only be in range for earth communications at any given point for a few minutes each pass, so perhaps 3 to 5 minutes if you are lucky. It would require a swarm of LEOs and probably a much bigger antenna, as in much bigger than the iPhone itself. I'm an Extra Class licensed amateur radio operator (ham) who has monitored several LEOs as they pass by, including the International Space Station. This simply cannot be done with an iPhone and the current state of technology built into them. Even with the proper equipment, it requires a lot of knowledge and a well placed antenna. Total bleeping BS!!! There is a reason we use GEOs (geostationary satellites at 36,000 km altitude). You have to get that far away to keep the satellite over a specific location on earth. A LEO orbits the earth at less than 1,000 km, and makes another complete orbit about every 1.5 hours (90 minutes). No way this will work today....

Yea, I’m kind of inclined to agree with you. Even with Starlink that has a ridiculous array of LEO satellites, their receiver antenna is much larger than an iPhone, and constantly adjusts itself so that it points towards the nearest satellite. I just don’t see how something like this could work in an iPhone. Granted, Apple does perform hardware wizardry with things that seem impossible before, but I have a hard time believing this one.

 

[emsmac]

My guess is that this would be extremely limited, small data messages only -- similar to the "Spot" line up... The biggest value would be basic communication in areas where cell services are out.

 

[ChrisA]

I think this would have to be text-only messaging. It could work. You send the text and it stays in the phone untill a satellite comes into view and then a short text is sent.

Voice or Internet can't work with low power to LEO.

 

[aajeevlin]

Yea, I’m kind of inclined to agree with you. Even with Starlink that has a ridiculous array of LEO satellites, their receiver antenna is much larger than an iPhone, and constantly adjusts itself so that it points towards the nearest satellite. I just don’t see how something like this could work in an iPhone. Granted, Apple does perform hardware wizardry with things that seem impossible before, but I have a hard time believing this one.

I just find it interesting that the person claim to have HAM radio license but failed to mention Iridium and Globalstar? The rumor here is text and phone call. If the rumor had mention high speed internet I'd agree with you and say this is mostly untrue, because besides Starlink no other LEO constellation can sustain the sort of speed that we are all used to. But the focus here are text and phone call. Sending text and make calls is exactly what Iridium/Globalstar do to make money. I can't tell you if the Apple has managed to minimized antenna to the level that it will fix on the iPhone but they are honestly not that big.

Also to make a claim that it's not possible to cover the entire Earth with LEO constellation or having to constantly changign direction to track is just not true. You do not have to POINT at any particular location to use a Iridium phone, and you also don't need that many to cover the entire Earth, Iridium is of global coverage with just 75 satellites, they are at 750Km altitude, which is consider LEO.

 

[ChrisA]

Yea, I’m kind of inclined to agree with you. Even with Starlink that has a ridiculous array of LEO satellites, their receiver antenna is much larger than an iPhone, and constantly adjusts itself so that it points towards the nearest satellite. I just don’t see how something like this could work in an iPhone. Granted, Apple does perform hardware wizardry with things that seem impossible before, but I have a hard time believing this one.

It can work. The bit rate would be very low and you would be limited to very short text messages. Starlink is very different. It is setup for full-time high speed Internet. This would keep the text in you phone and wait for a satellite to fly over then connect for a couple seconds and drop the connection after exchanging tiny amounts of data.

 

[aajeevlin]

I think this would have to be text-only messaging. It could work. You send the text and it stays in the phone untill a satellite comes into view and then a short text is sent.

Voice or Internet can't work with low power to LEO.

No, you don't have to wait for another satellite to come in view they are in view 100% of the times, these are designed to have overlap in coverage,

This is the Iridium constellation coverage map, you are covered 100% of the times. Each satellite has enough footprint to combine to cover the entire Earth's surface (this is for Iridium, but most of other satellite constellation will operate more or less the same way). Keep in mind the satellite are constantly moving as well, so that moving satellite is not an issue.

 

[bobtem]

Super amazing. Now can you get rid of the notch?

 

[bobtem]

As an example, there's a massive hurricane about to hit Louisiana. The storm is likely going to knock out cellular networks all over the region.

This sort of technology could be game changing in these situations. Right now you need specialized equipment to talk to satellites, but if cellphone start to have this tech it will mean a lot fewer cases of people being isolated in emergencies or in remote areas.

Great I can call for help when stranded in a hurricane. But the power is out and my battery is dead…

 

[19callum93]

“LEO JUST GOT REAL”

 

[LonestarOne]

No one should ever use a phone as a safety net when off the beaten path in nature. Nothing more annoying that some jackass talking on the phone in a national park. I'm there to get away from that and not to use it as a safety blanket to phone for help.

No one should use his phone in an emergency because it would annoy you???

If someone is in a life of death situation, and you’re close enough to overhear the call, there’s a good chance you’re in trouble, too.

 

[jgbr]

Sorry to be "that smug European" but I suspect that a lot if issues people In the US seam to have with their phones are more of an indication if lacking RANs rgan the phones, unless I'm in the middel of fing nowhere I have good voice coverage, and mostly good or better 4G and more and more often even 5G. Ofc in the middel if niwhwew even voice can be spotty sometimes and ofc the OS has a lot more of those places than an average European country doue to it's vastly larger land mass

Presuming my location was unwise….

I am sad to report that your statement is incorrect. Getting an clear high quality phone call on 4G is equally a problem in Europe as USA.

 

[joker2]

Good Twitter thread From Rob Graham on the matter.

 

[Xtir]

All you have to do is plug this 8ft antenna into the lightning port and you're set!

but the question is.. will that port still be available?