Kuo: iPhone 15 MFi Requirements Expected to Boost Apple USB-C Charger Shipments

[3530025]

Aren’t android phones compatible with quick charge from Qualcomm? Doesn’t that make a lot of them incompatible with PD?

QC3+ is compatible with USB-PD I believe. This means they are compatible with both QC and USB-PD.

Also this EU rule is not yet in charge. The deadline is December 28th, 2024 after that even Android phones will have to comply, yes. So up to 100W USB-PD is mandatory. Above 100W custom protocol is allowed. I.e. if your device handles 120W, you have to allow 100W USB-PD, but you can have also 120W QC. That's how I understand the EU's 'Common Charger' directive.

 

[thawk9455]

So many assumptions all based on one rumor. I doubt Apple is going to seriously limit the charging capabilities of power adapters. If anything, it would be something like 15W max charging to the iPhone rather than what ever the new max wattage will be. This would be similar to their limit on Qi chargers of 7.5W vs 20W if you use MagSafe. Or simply an alert like they've done on the phones before that this device isn't MFi.

They already allow fast charging on iPads and Macs with any USB-C charger. They're not going to add to the confusion by not allowing the cables and chargers they've been selling for years to not fully work with their own equipment. Or even worse, not allow you to fast charge from your Mac.

MFi will much more likely be limited to data speeds (potentially), accessory compatibility (potentially), or just flat out branding. How many people still won't realize that they can use any USB-C cord and will be looking for the logo on the box that says this one is made for my phone? Companies are still going to pay for MFi because there will be consumers that will pay for it.

 

[dwaltwhit]

Your reasoning is faulty from the get-go. It's easy for you to ensure this without any nonsense. You simply purchase official cables directly from Apple if this is anything you worry about. What's the need for artificially handicapping everything that is not "MFi" certified? Apple could even move along with "MFi" certification and have the warning showing when not using a certified cable without artificially limiting everything that has not been verified.

A certification process is already in place as part of the USB-PD standard needed for allowing beyond 15W charging. Apple has been more than happy to rely on USB-PD for Macs and iPad Pros until now. The only "downside" of USB-PD is that Apple can't have a warning showing on iOS when using something that is not certified. It will simply charge slower if it doesn't support USB-PD without any information sent to the user. One could argue that "MFi" is excellent in showing users a warning when using non-certified charges and cables. But you are still limited to tops 15W unless you are using USB-PD, which already requires certification so there is no argument for artificially limiting non-MFi certified chargers and cables other than pure corporate greed.

Your points are well made and I appreciate the discussion. The factor you are leaving out is that the majority of users don't know to be something to consider. Once iPhones switch, there will be a massive influx of usb c devices which means an influx of cables on the market. I am thinking of the folks that will go out and buy 3-, 5-, 12-packs of cords from amazon suppliers that are just a string of consonants. I am a firm believer in buyer beware, but Apple knows that when reports of swelling batteries come in, particularly on a new, usb-c device, the media will have a field day. The headline won't be "USB-C cables causing iPhones to explode" it will be "New iPhones exploding!"

To your point of "corporate greed": I don't think this is corporate greed. I think it is a filthy rich capitalist company looking out for its reputation. A fine line to dance, but I think its not avarice so much as protecting the reputation.

 

[compwiz1202]

Would it be possible for the iPhone to give some indication of its charging speed when you connect a cable? Sometimes they are not labelled and most of the time the chargers are labeled in a way that is too small to read. It would be nice if the phone could give you a clear idea of how fast your charger is going to be.

Agree. Even if it was something visual to let you know it is fast without an exact #. This is why I like the power banks with the V/A/W readouts. Or you can use an app like Amperes. At least you can use magnifying to find the W of a charger. They need to have something like that for the cables if they are 60/100/140 or whatever other max wattages they can be.

 

[RamGuy]

Your points are well made and I appreciate the discussion. The factor you are leaving out is that the majority of users don't know to be something to consider. Once iPhones switch, there will be a massive influx of usb c devices which means an influx of cables on the market. I am thinking of the folks that will go out and buy 3-, 5-, 12-packs of cords from amazon suppliers that are just a string of consonants. I am a firm believer in buyer beware, but Apple knows that when reports of swelling batteries come in, particularly on a new, usb-c device, the media will have a field day. The headline won't be "USB-C cables causing iPhones to explode" it will be "New iPhones exploding!"

To your point of "corporate greed": I don't think this is corporate greed. I think it is a filthy rich capitalist company looking out for its reputation. A fine line to dance, but I think its not avarice so much as protecting the reputation.

I feel like we are pretty much in the same ballpark on this one. But the thing is, the point you are making at the end isn't linked to crippling features. Apple could enforce MFi on top of USB-C and have the typical warning we have using non-certified lightning cables without degrading the performance and features of non-certified USB-C charges and cables.

If Apple feels the need to spend money on having charges and cables MFi certified on top of the required USB-PD certification isn't all that bad for consumers or the environment. But starting to artificially limit non-certified chargers and cables that already comply with USB-PD doesn't make much sense. That would just be a ploy to push users with chargers and cables perfectly capable of supporting up to 100W charging using USB-PD into getting new MFi-certified chargers and cables just to achieve the same thing their current chargers and cables are already rated and certified for.

And this opens pandora's box. Suddenly, Samsung will start with its own set of certifications, Lenovo with its own etc. And no one will pay for a cross-manufacture certificate, so your Apple charger will be crippled when connected to anything non-Apple, and your Samsung charger will be crippled when connected to your Apple devices as a result of Samsung not paying for the MFi certification.


If manufactures want to add cost to their chargers and cable to warn users when they connect non-certified chargers and cables, so be it. But there is no need to cripple the existing USB-PD standard by artificially limiting the charging speeds.

 

[User 6502]

Basically apple lied when they said they were not including chargers in the box for environmental concerns. It was all about profits. If they cared about the environment they wouldn’t include unnecessary requirements to allow full speed charging, as these will push people to buy unnecessary cables and chargers, even if they already had some perfectly capable to handle that power.

 

[ian87w]

Would it be possible for the iPhone to give some indication of its charging speed when you connect a cable? Sometimes they are not labelled and most of the time the chargers are labeled in a way that is too small to read. It would be nice if the phone could give you a clear idea of how fast your charger is going to be.

Completely agree. Right now, there’s no distinct difference when the iPhone is charged with slow 5W or fast 20W USB-PD. It would be great if Apple provide an indicator (could be as simple as dual lightning bolt on the icon for faster charging).

 

[User 6502]

As usual. People jumping on board a rumour, pretending it’s actually going to happen. I really cannot understand why people believe this rubbish.

I'll complain about if it happens, but at this stage, it hasn’t.

And if does happen will you actually complain or will you find unlikely justifications for apple’s greedy behaviour?

 

[RamGuy]

So many assumptions all based on one rumor. I doubt Apple is going to seriously limit the charging capabilities of power adapters. If anything, it would be something like 15W max charging to the iPhone rather than what ever the new max wattage will be. This would be similar to their limit on Qi chargers of 7.5W vs 20W if you use MagSafe. Or simply an alert like they've done on the phones before that this device isn't MFi.

They already allow fast charging on iPads and Macs with any USB-C charger. They're not going to add to the confusion by not allowing the cables and chargers they've been selling for years to not fully work with their own equipment. Or even worse, not allow you to fast charge from your Mac.

MFi will much more likely be limited to data speeds (potentially), accessory compatibility (potentially), or just flat out branding. How many people still won't realize that they can use any USB-C cord and will be looking for the logo on the box that says this one is made for my phone? Companies are still going to pay for MFi because there will be consumers that will pay for it.

Apple isn't artificially limiting wireless charging. When MagSafe got to market, the official Qi spec was 7.5W. You could get beyond 7.5W using Qi, but not using the official standard. Most companies are using the Qualcomm Quick Charge to get beyond 7.5W. Apple went with its solution, MagSafe and did not adopt Qualcomm Quick Charge.

This is rather messy. It's the same with USB-C. There are plenty of charging solutions for USB-C, but the official one is USB-PD, and as USB-PD is now rated for up to 100W, most tend to follow the official standard instead of messing with unofficial ones.

The big difference between what is being detailed in this article compared to MagSafe is how Apple is moving away from the official USB-PD standard they are already using today into something else and decided to cripple USB-PD as a part of the process to make their MFi certification more attractive.

 

[ian87w]

I feel like we are pretty much in the same ballpark on this one. But the thing is, the point you are making at the end isn't linked to crippling features. Apple could enforce MFi on top of USB-C and have the typical warning we have using non-certified lightning cables without degrading the performance and features of non-certified USB-C charges and cables.

If Apple feels the need to spend money on having charges and cables MFi certified on top of the required USB-PD certification isn't all that bad for consumers or the environment. But starting to artificially limit non-certified chargers and cables that already comply with USB-PD doesn't make much sense. That would just be a ploy to push users with chargers and cables perfectly capable of supporting up to 100W charging using USB-PD into getting new MFi-certified chargers and cables just to achieve the same thing their current chargers and cables are already rated and certified for.

And this opens pandora's box. Suddenly, Samsung will start with its own set of certifications, Lenovo with its own etc. And no one will pay for a cross-manufacture certificate, so your Apple charger will be crippled when connected to anything non-Apple, and your Samsung charger will be crippled when connected to your Apple devices as a result of Samsung not paying for the MFi certification.


If manufactures want to add cost to their chargers and cable to warn users when they connect non-certified chargers and cables, so be it. But there is no need to cripple the existing USB-PD standard by artificially limiting the charging speeds.

All Chinese Android OEMs already have their own proprietary fast charging that require their specific cables and chargers. Oppo, Xiaomi, etc they all have their own proprietary fast charging.

 

[txscott]

Of course they are going to twist the application of this new regulation to their advantage, somehow.

Yes they, and others, will seek advantage from this regulation. That's the way this works. Regulators make arbitrary rules (because the selection of any standard by government is arbitrary), and the regulated (me and you or giant companies) make adjustments to better themselves under the regulatory regime. As has been noted many times before (and is now a moot point because the regulation is in place), this is regulatory overreach on a grand scale. Now consumers will have to deal with the unintended consequences of this regulation. Which will spark additional regulation, which will spark additional unintended consequences, which will spark.... Until it's regulations all the way down.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Lol all this complaining as if 99.99999% of people aren’t just going to use the included cable in the box and their previous wall adapters that’re already certified that Apple’s been selling for five years.

 

[compwiz1202]

Completely agree. Right now, there’s no distinct difference when the iPhone is charged with slow 5W or fast 20W USB-PD. It would be great if Apple provide an indicator (could be as simple as dual lightning bolt on the icon for faster charging).

Funny dual bolts was exactly what I thought also.

 

[Mousse]

Don't include a charger with a new phone + sell only a high priced charger = cha-ching.

13th Rule of Acquistion: Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.🤑

 

[jamezr]

"As part of the move, Apple is expected to restrict certain advantages of USB-C like faster charging and data speeds to work with MFi-certified cables and chargers only. As a result, Kuo believes Apple is anticipating a major increase in demand for its own USB-C 20W Power Adapter. "

I don't understand why Apple feels the need to screw over the consumer when creating USB-C chargers.

This is a straight up money grab from Apple here. But at this point should we be surprised? they keep doing it over and over....

 

[ian87w]

Basically apple lied when they said they were not including chargers in the box for environmental concerns. It was all about profits. If they cared about the environment they wouldn’t include unnecessary requirements to allow full speed charging, as these will push people to buy unnecessary cables and chargers, even if they already had some perfectly capable to handle that power.

Of course it was a complete lie, the fact that Apple is still producing, and shipping slow 5W chargers in their separate boxes. If Apple cared so much about the environment, they should stop making those chargers in the first place and point people to either use their existing ones or buy a 3rd party chargers. But nope, they are actually asking consumers if they “remember” to buy those chargers. It’s purely profit driven, nothing else.

 

[coolfactor]

Profits aside, there's also a safety factor. As more consumers search for cheaper alternatives, fire and burn incidents will only *increase* as more cheap chargers are sold and used.

 

[Cromulent]

Stupid question as I haven't read the entire thread but I have two official Apple 30W chargers and my USB-C cables came with Apple devices so does that mean I can fast charge or do I need to buy newer Apple chargers and cables?

 

[coolfactor]

The fact that we’re gonna have to buy these separately because “shipping with chargers is more green” is absurd. They better include these new charges, damnit.

Disagree. I applaud Apple. Look in your drawers and cabinets and I bet you'll find a dozen old chargers. That's the problem, and we can't ignore it by shipping out chargers that people are not needing. Some do, and some don't, so let those that need one buy one.

 

[bommai]

I think this rule itself is ridiculous. Every public place I have gone to, cars, airports, and furniture I buy such as desks, couches, adjustable beds etc all come with USB-A. None have USB-C. I just bought a $55k Hyundai Ioniq 5 and a $48k Honda Odyssey Touring and they have usb-A. The furniture I saw in Costco has usb-a. What problem is EU trying to solve? currently I need to
Have usb-a and usb-c on one end though. I cannot go anywhere without that.

 

[Octavius8]

WTF APPLE!!!!!!.
To have cast charge we will have to pay a premium????. There is standard for that samd a reason!!!!. That should be ilegal!, intentional cramping an standard just to charge more the users?. So, if I want my car to “accept premium gas” or go over 60MPH I need to pay extra??.
F You!!!!. And also killing the mute switch???. Super nice.
Bring back Huawei phones!!!!

 

[Eldaerenth Faexidor]

I have the 35W dual port charger with USB-C ports so I’m already future proof. Bring it on Apple.

 

[Mystakill]

If Anker starts to sell MFI cables, they will be the ones who gain profit

MFI has always required that a licensing fee be paid to Apple for every unit, so Apple benefits regardless of who's selling it.

 

[zorinlynx]

So will this theoretically create a situation where a particular charger and cable will full speed charge an iPad, but only slow charge an iPhone?

Seems a bit.. unlikely. I doubt Apple is going to do this. They have been using USB-C now on the rest of their devices for several years; there's no reason for them to do things any differently on the iPhone.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

How DARE they say they care about environment