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Kuo: iPhone SE 4 and Ultra-Thin iPhone 17 to Use Apple's Own 5G Chip
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For duck sake Timmy… we DON’T want an ultra thin phone. We DO want a phone with a battery that lasts longer.
And at one point no one did burgers better than McDonald's. lol. That doesn't mean nothing better will ever come along.
But it was worth it. Can't imagine mobile devices without ARM. The iPhone would probably would be water cooled with tacky colorful LEDsYes, but Acorn, Apple and NXP joined to form the company called Arm in 1990. No idea how much of the early IP remains in the current designs. My point about Apple being part of the founding group was more to dispel kerplunknet's idea that Apple just licenses and uses ARM cores the same as they used to use Intel's CPUs. Clearly they're much more involved, and have been for 34 years now.
The Official History of Arm
Arm’s journey to the world’s most pervasive compute platform covers a broad timeline of company milestones and product achievements.newsroom.arm.com
Still, it if took 30 years to beat Intel, that's not a good sign for the Qualcomm fight.
Apple seems to be terrible at RF anything. Look at all of the problems with BlueTooth connectivity, then Apple's WiFi drops out and gets flaky consistently. The only nearly solid RF has been cellular, now Apple is going to make that flaky also. Not for me. I'll give it a couple of years till Apple figures out they can't do it, and reverts back to Qualcomm.
I'm pretty confident this is going to turn our like the the blood oxygen level in the current watch. Apple will release it, then it will be ruled a patent violation, then all of those phones will not have cellular anymore because Apple will be forced to remove the code.
Apple is getting out maneuvered by he competition at every turn. Maybe Cook should consider that some things are more important than cost control. But no, Cook only understand costs, not strategy, so every problem is a nail and his only tool is a hammer.
No one wants this uber thin phone or folding phone Apple. Most of us want a battery that lasts as long as possible. Keep the phone the same size but increase the battery capacity. But, of course, Apple won't because that would extend the longevity of the device and Apple wants us to buy new ones all the time.
While I respect that position, I put no weight behind unsubstantiated claims presented as facts.
I for one love the fact that Apple news & rumor web sites are packed with countless experts within the 5G modem industry, and are happy to share their expertise and wisdom.
Many thanks to Qualcomm for making their people so available to all the forums!
I believe it when I see it. I personally don’t think Apple is able to keep up on the development with Qualcomm. It’s Qualcomm’s home business and they’ve shown before to be very aggressive and speedy in development. Something I can’t say from Apple. Hope the future proofs me wrong.
Qualcomm has already entered apples homeground with the introduction of the snapdragon x-elite. It’s faster on many fronts than Apples M3 already. I’ll doubt Apple will beat Qualcomm in one or two years with their in-house developed modems. Qualcomm is much more eager and aggressive to stay on top. I also expect the next generation X-elites surpassing Apples M-series. Hope I’m wrong 😅
“No one does CPUs better than Intel.” oops. yeah keep fearing change and loving the status quo.
Qualcomm doesn't charge a fixed prices for their modem, but instead says their licensing fee is some % of the retail price of the product.
Costs (not accurate, like at all)
Case: $5.00
Glass: $2.00
SoC (CPU/GPU/RAM): $50
Storage: $50
Battery: $20
front camera module and face ID: $10
rear camera module: $15
GPS module: $2
Rest of board: $1
5G Modem: 20% retail.
TOTAL: $155
Then Apple pays shipping, warehousing, marketing, OS and App R&D, support staff, replacement costs, customer credit card fees, etc. Let's arbitrarily round that to ~$200+5G modem, with the possibility of going up depending on support needed.
If this is an SE phone that sells for $400, the 5G modem cost is $80. The BoM is now $280. Apple has made $120. BUT... The modem is the most expensive part, Qualcomm is making nearly as much profit as Apple... for one critical, but kinda small part of the product.
Someone orders a version with 4x the storage for an extra $200. This costs apple $20 in materials.
BoM is now $220+5G modem. Retail is $600. The 5G modem cost is now $120, bringing the BoM up to $340. The modem is now far and away the priciest component. It's the same chip, doing the same thing for the same product, it just has more local storage. A budget $100 Android with the same chip is paying $20, instead of $120.
That retail-price based licensing fee is why. Sure they made a bunch, but they don't think Qualcomm is entitled to nearly as much for a glorified antenna.
All expectations? The A12X/Z ~120mm^2 M1 ~120mm^2. M1 was perhaps '1st gen' in respect to expanded I/O support ( Thunderbolt), but the CPU / GPU were all evolutionary path from A__X series. Indeed the plain M1 (and follow ons) power the iPad Pro's just like the A__X series did.
" ... But Apple repeatedly described the new iPad Pro's GPU performance as being comparable to the Xbox One S.
... "
Apple walks Ars through the iPad Pro’s A12X system on a chip
Apple’s Anand Shimpi, Phil Schiller talk silicon—”This is really an Xbox One S class GPU.”…
arstechnica.com
Apple started chatting up their top end CPUs performance in "desktop like" , "game console like" performance well before the appearance of the M1.
While there is a lineage from Infineon -> Intel -> Apple modem group, there were also rumblings that Apple decided to toss the legacy stuff and try for maximum patent decoupling from Qualcomm. ( kind of a the same radical anti-Qualcomm that put Infineon way behind the curve on 4G (CDMA frequency management modems).
There was far less "Lets leave that previous A-series stuff behind" approach in the transition from A12Z -> M1.
The modem system is pragmatically going to need RF module(s) also. It isn't going to be all that small ( relative to a A1x SoC ) . It is 'different' more than 'simpler' .
The external equipment thing doesn't get easier over time. 6G radios tech is ramping up along with 5G transitional. It is a 'hamster wheel' that just gets harder to turn if can't get the 'last' gen modem out the door before the next gen stuff comes on line.
Option 3. Not as good as Q, barely servicable but saves apple 20/unit shipped so they ship it anyway. People on MR complain about slower 5g speeds.
The new Snapdragon chip was developed by ex Apple Silicon employees. That’s the only reason Qualcomm was able bring it to market. It wasn’t developed in-house by Qualcomm.
I know, but it’s their first attempt to steal Apple’s crown. For a first attempt it’s a big success to already surpass apples M3. Nuvia was the company I believe which the ex Apple employees started. Only 8 people were working there. Now they’re backed by Qualcomm and together with their expertise on modems and processors I think Apple will have a hard time to keep up. Time will tell. But given Apple’s speed of innovation, I’m holding my breath.
Whatever it is... seen the rumoured specs... when introduced in 2025 it's already a dated iPhone and probably outrageous priced against any competition. Apple needs to wake up! Many user prefer Android above iOS, the hardware is no match against Android devices. The things that set Apple apart from the competition are years behind us. Instead Apple wants you to believe it's still on top of everything. Wake up and do some research.