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Kuo: New Apple TV to Launch in Second Half of 2022, Lower Price Possible

if they can match chromecast/fire stick then i'm in. i'd love an apple tv but cheapest option for 4K currently is £169 lol. chromecast/firestick's for 4K are £50-60. gonna need to cut the price down Apple.

i'm quite happy with the quality of the apps on my TV (lg cx/c1) but i suppose after time they will stop getting updated. i will be looking for a plug in media device at some point.
 
B/D said:
@frostbit3

Dont worry, this is not going to happen under any circumstances. The reason why the Apple TV HD is not supported is because the ad-hoc network created between the Apple TV and the homepods when they are set in home theater mode (that allows for ultra low latency wireless audio, system wide audio support and multichannel audio), uses bluetooth and wifi at the same time and requires bluetooth 5.0. The Apple TV HD only has a bluetooth 4.2 chipset.


PS: The Apple TV HD works with the homepods without any problems using the regular Airplay link. The only limitations are that no sound is produced in real time apps like video games and live tv apps, and that only 2.0 stereo sound is supported (no 5.1, 7.1 and Atmos support, that the homepod mini doesnt support anyway, only the original homepod support this).
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Unless part of their cost cuttings is using the same A8 chip that's in the Apple TV HD in which case it'd have the same limitations.
 
I would buy. I've got two 2017 4K units and an HD unit. Really the only things the 2021 version have is a new remote and 60 fps 4k YouTube videos.

What would make me jump head-first into recommending is if Xfinity releases an app for the Apple TV. Allegedly a deal was made between Comcast and Apple for Apple to release a TV app for their X1 devies (which was completed this year), and Comcast releasing an app for the Apple TV (not done yet).
 
frostbit3 said:
Unless part of their cost cuttings is using the same A8 chip that's in the Apple TV HD in which case it'd have the same limitations.
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@frostbit3

"Limitations" because like I said you can currently use the homepods with the apple tv HD, for almost every app (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon...) without no problems whatsoever.

Having said that, I think the A8 chip is on its way out.

This probably will have an S5 chip or something like that like the Homepod Mini.
 
TigerNike23 said:
I would buy. I've got two 2017 4K units and an HD unit. Really the only things the 2021 version have is a new remote and 60 fps 4k YouTube videos.

What would make me jump head-first into recommending is if Xfinity releases an app for the Apple TV. Allegedly a deal was made between Comcast and Apple for Apple to release a TV app for their X1 devies (which was completed this year), and Comcast releasing an app for the Apple TV (not done yet).
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@TigerNike23

And EARC support with the homepods for internal tv tuner and HDMI connected devices audio passthrough.
 
B/D said:
"Limitations" because like I said you can currently use the homepods with the apple tv HD, for almost every app (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon...) without no problems whatsoever.

Having said that, I think the A8 chip is on its way out.

This probably will have an S5 chip or something like that like the Homepod Mini.
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Yes, limitations. I have homepods as the default output on all my Apple TV's. When I bought an HD Apple TV that was brand new at the time and I couldn't select it as a default output only to find out you have to have a 4K Apple TV, I'd say that was a limitation. Let me explain to my wife and kids that every single time they turn the TV on they have to make sure to set the sound output on the TV and how that isn't a limitation.
 
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davebarnes said:
I find the cost to be a non issue in our house.
1. 77-inch OLED TV + 5.1 sound system was $7700. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
2. 65-inch OLED TV + SONOS ARC was $2500. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
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"I am rich; price is a nonissue."

Yes, if you have 10K to spend on your television setup(s), an Apple TV is relatively less expensive than those things. An Apple TV is also less expensive than a car, but it is more expensive than a banana. Things have different prices. What's your point?
 
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greenbreadmmm said:
Good point on Ethernet. But what else can they really remove? Also they only make so many chips, so unsure how they could offer a slower offering, if A12 is currently the oldest/slowest chip they produce.
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The local storage completely? And at traditional local storage (Apple) pricing, removing the 64GB might make it so they have to pay us up to about $50 to take one. ;)

More seriously, I've long questioned the local storage beyond maybe the size of the biggest movie/game allowed to be played at the time. It's basically a single task device- whatever you are doing/watching right now is the primary/singular function at that time.

It seems all apps/media (included rented/purchased through it)/etc. could be stored on the home shared, master computer and streamed over to AppleTV on demand. Maybe build one with a better-sized RAM buffer for queuing up more of what the user wants to use/see right now?

Then, again, with Apple RAM pricing, there goes that -$50 and we're probably back to about $149-$199 for no local storage. ;)
 
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anshuvorty said:
Can I just get an AppleTV with an Aux out/optical out port? It's crazy that I can't connect external speakers to this unit directly! C'mon!
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Also crucial for most ZONE 2 receiver options and separate-box HDMI splitters seem to be more hit or miss when trying to create this with those kinds of dongles. I'd LOVE to see an AUX jack resurrected. Early AppleTVs had it... and then Apple decided to "improve" them.
 
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frostbit3 said:
Yes, limitations. I have homepods as the default output on all my Apple TV's. When I bought an HD Apple TV that was brand new at the time and I couldn't select it as a default output only to find out you have to have a 4K Apple TV, I'd say that was a limitation. Let me explain to my wife and kids that every single time they turn the TV on they have to make sure to set the sound output on the TV and how that isn't a limitation.
Click to expand...


@frostbit3

Well, it takes just a few seconds to do so. You dont have to dig trough the settings menu each time, just hold the home button on the remote to bring up the apple tv control center, click on the airplay icon and select the pods. 10 seconds at max.

To me, is not a big deal, because the home theater feature didnt come until 2020 with 14.2.

Until then, it was over two years of manual selection every time, even with the 4K model.


Now its more convenient and sound better, of course, but still.
 
I vote for a stick as well. I have a FireStick on my outdoor TV powered by the built in USB port. Its all tucked behind the set keeping it more out of the dust. Prefer Apple TV but for the cost difference its not the best fit for outside. The only real catch/dislike is having a different remote for that one TV. Our others have Apple TVs.
 
HobeSoundDarryl said:
Also crucial for most ZONE 2 receiver options and separate-box HDMI splitters seem to be more hit or miss when trying to create this with those kinds of dongles. I'd LOVE to see an AUX jack resurrected. Early AppleTVs had it... and then Apple decided to "improve" them.
Click to expand...
Apple did bring back ports on their redesigned 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros. Hopefully, they do the same thing with the AppleTV...it is sorely needed IMHO...
 
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CC77 said:
"I am rich; price is a nonissue."
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"Let them eat cake" attitudes always lead to the same place.

That person seems out of touch. While I too have expensive AV equipment, I know plenty of people who sweat spending only a few hundred on a new piece of AV tech. A good friend was almost stressing at the expense of a new cable modem which was priced LESS than the 64GB AppleTV. Look through any product announcement thread on this site and if the product is not made by Apple, there will be overwhelming price rejection.

I own several AppleTVs but can easily argue they are priced too high. They offer a few benefits to help the Apple-centric easily rationalize the premium (as I do) but the masses staring at massive price differentiation vs. a few specific feature differences are often swayed by the pricing. Same issue with HomePod vs. its competitors. Etc.
 
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anshuvorty said:
Apple did bring up ports on their redesigned 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pros. Hopefully, they do the same thing with the AppleTV...it is sorely needed IMHO...
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VERY MUCH SO. I'd pay more for an AUX port if given the option. The catch is that the DAC is in there, so this is a situation where including a dirt-cheap part to offer AUX out probably has unit costs south of $1. So I'll hope right with you. A subset of us all would certainly appreciate it.
 
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davebarnes said:
I find the cost to be a non issue in our house.
1. 77-inch OLED TV + 5.1 sound system was $7700. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
2. 65-inch OLED TV + SONOS ARC was $2500. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
Click to expand...
Mine was a hisense 55 led tv+2 used homepod minis for $450. The cost of the apple tv box is easily 1/3 of that.
 
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ksec said:
AirPort TV, basically an Apple TV that also acts as Router.

But no one has suggested how is Apple going to reduce cost.
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Evolving it into a many-to-everything box will only make it cost MORE, not less. People don't need routers only where they might want to place AppleTVs. It seems best to keep those separate. I would love to see a modern-but-separate revival of an Apple-made router though. I still choose to use a Time Capsule to this day.

Same goes for adding a FaceTime camera to it (people don't always put AppleTVs in spots suitable to make that work well) and/or building AppleTV into a Soundbar/HomePod Deluxe (Speakers can be fully usable for 10+ years but new AppleTV tech can obsolete in about half that time).

Logically Reducing Cost
  • Increase the stream functionality by cutting the local storage. Switch the bulk of storage to the computer on which it depends. Based on Apple local storage upgrade prices, unless they are just robbing us consumers, the price they must be paying for local storage seems sky high. So cut it here and discount current pricing like downgrading storage on iDevices from more to less. I know, I know. They ARE robbing us consumers who choose to buy anyway and be robbed... but there is actually SOME cost in 32GB-64GB local storage. I'd be thinking local, good-sized RAM buffer and otherwise stream the bulk of everything in and out of that buffer.
  • Almost virtualize AppleTV on the computer. Just as there is already the ability to run big games on computers but stream the visuals & sound to a TV, what if the bulk of AppleTV runs on the computer and only the video & audio is "tossed" (Airplayed) to the screen? We still see all of the same interface on the TV but all of the action is happening on the computer. Thus, this device is a simple little Airplay-like receiver (since Apple would build it, probably proprietary in key ways) with HDMI out to pass the video & audio to receivers, soundbars and/or TVs. Give 1 or 2 of the ever-growing quantity of cores on our Macs something to do while we are watching TV.
  • Strategically give up the Apple Margin by borrowing a page from the game console makers. Go for VOLUME placements of the box and make the profits on the software/services it needs to do much of what it does. I know, I know- this one is complete insanity... but it is also a proven way to cut the price and still make lots of money from selling something anyway.
  • Take a page from "free iPhone" promotions by perhaps bundling AppleTV with a longer-term commitment to Apple services (like a cell phone contract) to subsidize giving away a "free AppleTV." That works exceptionally well for "selling" iPhones and Apple wants to really push services. So Apple plays the same card but acts as its own "house."
  • Recent rumor about "restructuring for more advertising revenue" may be attached to this rumor. Advertising has long been the easiest/natural way to subsidize television programming. Why is "over the air" TV free? Because other people pay for those "streams" in exchange for getting to run ads during the stuff we watch. Maybe Apple "restructuring" rolls out an ad-supported version of an AppleTV in which some number of Apple ads are "forced upon us" to use it? Yes, I know, most of us probably detest this idea... but it is the long-term most proven way to pay for "television" without making the viewer pay for "television." Applied to 21st century "television," it seems like it too could offer a subsidized price to as low as $0.
Else, the implied "cheaper price" here may be cheaper like the Studio Monitor was cheaper vs. the $6K monitor. Instead of $199/$179, maybe this is "much cheaper*" at $159 or "significantly cheaper*" at $139. I highly doubt something branded by (modern) Apple down at $99 or less... even if they did that before with a generation of this product.

*through Apple Marketing spin
 
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TEG said:
Just because other devices exist at $30 does not make them competition.
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lol yes it does. watch Apple introduce a much cheaper streaming device, and other streaming stick sales will take a notable dent.

i have so many Apple-invested friends who aren’t super techie, and they all use non-Apple streaming devices. the general consensus is, “why the f*** would anybody pay $100+ more for an Apple TV?”

my best answer is “AirPlay?” which is built into most TVs nowadays anyway.
 
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CC77 said:
"I am rich; price is a nonissue."

Yes, if you have 10K to spend on your television setup(s), an Apple TV is relatively less expensive than those things. An Apple TV is also less expensive than a car, but it is more expensive than a banana. Things have different prices. What's your point?
Click to expand...
OP may have not delivered their point with the most savoir faire but I do see where they’re coming from. It is tempting to simply compare the price point of the Apple TV to it’s competitors and declare it a poor value but with a more nuanced look at the product space I think it’s fair to say there are consumers that want to add a streaming unit to their free 2011 32” Vizio they grabbed off Craigslist, all the way up to those consumers buying $7k units.

Apple has (smartly) recognized that one single product is unable to meet the needs of this entire range of consumers.

Additionally, they lack the financial incentive to subsidize the bottom end of this market via data collection because ad revenue is a sliver of their business compared to many competitors where it’s nearly their entire business model. And of course Apple then gets to market itself as one of the few (only?) entrant in the space that protects your privacy.

Thus, they can comfortably ensconce themselves at the top of the market. They won’t move many units but that’s fine. A review of Roku’s financials (chosen because they are the purest form of a streaming unit company) shows us the only profit to be made is on the ad side of the business. They sell their units at a loss because they can make up for it with ads. Can you imagine Apple putting a Peacock button on their remote just so they could compete on price? ?
 
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Apple: I want my tv shows to be successful.
Also
Apple: Must sell more of our expensive apple tv to meet our streaming business goal.
 
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