Kuo: New Apple TV to Launch in Second Half of 2022, Lower Price Possible

[Abazigal]

My issues with the Apple TV have nothing to do with the hardware itself.

For one, I get what Apple is trying to do with the TV app, and I also understand why few streaming companies are willing to support it (because they want to keep users within their app), and it sucks that my content is fragmented amongst multiple streaming apps.

I hate that Apple Arcade is pretty much my only source of decent games on the Apple TV, but I also don’t blame developers for their reticence in porting games to the Apple TV, because the market simply isn’t there. Perhaps Apple needs to do more to address the issue, but I don’t think it’s a priority for Apple at the moment, simply because of the success of the iPhone (ie: the Apple TV can afford to fail).

I am not sure an M1 chip will solve the problem either.

Spotify doesn’t have a TV app for their service, and I am happy that I am at least able to access my podcasts and streaming music on my TV.

At the same time, I read reports of how the various smart TV brands collect data on their users and I trust that Apple doesn’t do this, but this isn’t something everyone cares about. When many smart TVs already come with several channels preloaded, there is less incentive to spend money on a separate streaming box.

On a side note, I would like to see an airplay stick for use in the classroom (a chrome cast-like form factor which just lets me mirror my ipad to the projector and nothing else), but it’s probably too niche a market for Apple to consider entering.

 

[svish]

Return of Apple TV at $99 will be very welcome.

 

[drumcat]

This feels like "Buy NFL Sunday Ticket and get a free Apple TV"

 

[4jasontv]

My issues with the Apple TV have nothing to do with the hardware itself.

For one, I get what Apple is trying to do with the TV app, and I also understand why few streaming companies are willing to support it (because they want to keep users within their app), and it sucks that my content is fragmented amongst multiple streaming apps.

Besides Netflix, what streaming service are you using that doesn't support UpNext?

Spotify doesn’t have a TV app for their service, and I am happy that I am at least able to access my podcasts and streaming music on my TV.

I too am happy that Spotify doesn't have a TV app.

At the same time, I read reports of how the various smart TV brands collect data on their users and I trust that Apple doesn’t do this, but this isn’t something everyone cares about. When many smart TVs already come with several channels preloaded, there is less incentive to spend money on a separate streaming box.

Don't forget they inserted ads after purchase. I have ads on my $3500 TV that weren't there when I purchased it.

 

[4jasontv]

Additionally, they lack the financial incentive to subsidize the bottom end of this market via data collection because ad revenue is a sliver of their business compared to many competitors where it’s nearly their entire business model. And of course Apple then gets to market itself as one of the few (only?) entrant in the space that protects your privacy.

Thus, they can comfortably ensconce themselves at the top of the market. They won’t move many units but that’s fine. A review of Roku’s financials (chosen because they are the purest form of a streaming unit company) shows us the only profit to be made is on the ad side of the business. They sell their units at a loss because they can make up for it with ads. Can you imagine Apple putting a Peacock button on their remote just so they could compete on price? ?

The amount of ads on roku devices blows my mind. They have ads on the remote, on the home screen, in the menus, and on the screen savers. While I see why it would be attractive to someone with a limited budget, I don't understand how anyone could enjoy using it.

It reminds me of that cheap vs expensive boots quote. I forget the exact wording, but basically: If you can't afford quality upfront you will pay more for lower quality over time.

 

[Abazigal]

Besides Netflix, what streaming service are you using that doesn't support UpNext?

I was told that amazon prime supported up next, but it never seemed to work for me.

HBO Go.
Viu (some asian streaming network)
Nebula
Curiosity Stream

Currently, the only content I get inside the TV+ are the TV+ original content and Disney+.

 

[4jasontv]

I was told that amazon prime supported up next, but it never seemed to work for me.

HBO Go.
Viu (some asian streaming network)
Nebula
Curiosity Stream

Currently, the only content I get inside the TV+ are the TV+ original content and Disney+.

I can confirm HBO Max works perfectly. I haven't tried the other three. Flipping through my UpNext right now, I see Hulu, Peacock, Epix, Prime, and some channel with the word Cooking in it.

The only one I had an issue with was Disney NOW, but it turns out that the App would 'forget' you were logged in, and to log in again you have to delete the app and reinstall it. I ended up deleting it entirely. No one noticed.

I keep telling the SO we need to cancel Netflix because we never watch it. We don't watch it because it doesn't pop up on UpNext... But every time I get them to agree something comes out they "have to see." I actually mentioned it yesterday and received the pushback "I hear Queens Gambit 2 is coming." Great... lol, so we can pay $20 a month to not watch a service on the off chance that a sequel will somehow be released without anyone making a big deal about it. Of course if that actually did happen we still wouldn't see the show because we don't watch Netflix... oi.

 

[Abazigal]

I can confirm HBO Max works perfectly. I haven't tried the other three. Flipping through my UpNext right now, I see Hulu, Peacock, Epix, Prime, and some channel with the word Cooking in it.

The only one I had an issue with was Disney NOW, but it turns out that the App would 'forget' you were logged in, and to log in again you have to delete the app and reinstall it. I ended up deleting it entirely. No one noticed.

I keep telling the SO we need to cancel Netflix because we never watch it. We don't watch it because it doesn't pop up on UpNext... But every time I get them to agree something comes out they "have to see." I actually mentioned it yesterday and received the pushback "I hear Queens Gambit 2 is coming." Great... lol, so we can pay $20 a month to not watch a service on the off chance that a sequel will somehow be released without anyone making a big deal about it. Of course if that actually did happen we still wouldn't see the show because we don't watch Netflix... oi.

It could be a regional thing. I have prime streaming as part of my prime subscription in Singapore, but I do seem to be missing some content (most notably, the boys) and it most definitely is not showing up in my Up Next Feed (at least not when I was following Wheel of Time). And I never did get season 3 of badlands.

I was on HBO Go for a while back in Jan (I don't have Max here in my country), so I could be mistaken. But I found the app to be pretty crappy as well. It's pretty frustrating when companies have all this great content but don't seem to want to spend beyond the bare minimum to make a decent app for their users.

Nebula and Curiosity were part of some bundle deal from the creator of Polymatter, but I will likely let it lapse eventually as I don't seem to be getting much mileage out of it (actually, I was reminded of it as I was responding to this post and just terminated it; it was set to renew in June).

I find I haven't been all that enthused by the marvel original tv series, but have fallen in love with the Star Wars animated shows (recently done with Star Wars rebels), and recently got into walking dead.

I am also paying for YouTube premium because I just can't stand ads anymore, though I wish it would carry over to my work account as well (I am a teacher, and occasionally stream videos as part of my lessons).

Netflix is there because my mom likes the Korean tv drama inside, but it's also the most pricey and definitely the first on the chopping block. I am also watching a Chinese drama and some anime, but it's currently the least used of the bunch relative to the money I am paying each month.

I wonder if Netflix should start offering an annual plan to help reduce churn, like what Disney+ is doing.

Back to the main point, I feel an M1 Apple TV still won't do much to move the needle, because the most important thing is still the content, and it seems that at this point, content owners are more careful about keeping their own original content walled off behind their own app so they don't get commoditised by a larger company like Apple. I think Apple ultimately made the right call in not acquiring Netflix, in not spending unnecessarily in acquiring a back catalogue, and in prioritising quality over quantity. I finished WeCrashed and Slow Horses and am now watching Essex Serpent and Tehran and am waiting of the next seasons of See, Foundation and Truth be Told.

I don't know if there will be a "streaming reckoning" eventually because the average customer isn't going to want to subscribe to numerous streaming services, nor do they have the capacity for consuming that much content anyways. Services like TV+, Disney+ and Prime, I see hanging around in the medium run because their parent companies have more than enough money to sustain them indefinitely, but beyond them, it's really anyone's guess.

 

[flashy-cat]

The only improvement I can see for the Apple TV is to make it run on USB power. It is currently the best streaming device on the market and the one that seems to last the longest, especially in quasi-rural areas. I've had too many people I know have their Chromecast, Roku, and FireSticks get fried in power blips, but never an Apple TV.

Or even better, give it a POE option.

 

[randomgeeza]

I find the cost to be a non issue in our house.
1. 77-inch OLED TV + 5.1 sound system was $7700. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
2. 65-inch OLED TV + SONOS ARC was $2500. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?

Well aren't you humble. Show off much...!?

 

[Pezimak]

And yet, the homepod mini exists and the original homepod is gone, for example.

And it only exists purely because hardly anyone bought the original Home Pod. If Apple wanted to remain even close to relevant in the smart speaker market they had no choice but to launch the Mini. Personally I hope they launch a Home Pod with built in screen like Amazon and Google do too.
Apple is selling enough Apple TV’s it seems to keep it going as it is, it’s been on sale for long enough to prove that.

Also, Apple did introDuce the iPhone Mini and 2 years later is scrapping it due to low sales, and the Apple TV is still on sale.

 

[Pezimak]

Besides Netflix, what streaming service are you using that doesn't support UpNext?

I too am happy that Spotify doesn't have a TV app.

Don't forget they inserted ads after purchase. I have ads on my $3500 TV that weren't there when I purchased it.

Yeap, I was a fan of the Nvidia Shield, brilliant device, and I have a 4K Sony OLED that was the flagship model in 2019, all expensive devices and worked great, all run Android TV or whatever Google call it, they then both were updated to a new interface and you have now ads of all sorts on the top of the Home Screen that are up about a third of the space on screen. Awful, sound me up as it advertises films or programmes for services you don’t have, and you have no control over the content shown so you literally have anything shown. People tried to get rid of the ads on devices by installing different launchers etc, but considering all the TV settings and features are integrated into the Android OS I’m not doing that on an expensive television, and I sold my Shield when the ads started on it.
So that and the fact I used and loved someone else’s Apple TV led me to put a 4K one on my Christmas list. And I’ve been using it daily ever since, I love its interface, works great. And no ads I don’t want either.

 

[t0pher]

Our 3 most recent smart tv’s all have the major streaming apps, I’ve not used the appletv 4k since I found the appletv+ app on the panasonic In our main room.

the world has moved on, streamers are useful for older tv’s but not needed for the new ones.

at £250 for a 4k 50” lcd LG which has the streaming apps, why would I pay another £170+ for an appletv?

on the oled, picture quality from its streaming apps is on par with the appletv, audio is far better though as I get Dolby digital plus to my ancient vsx922 where the appletv limits it to less.

 

[Razorpit]

Apple services are more platform agnostic than they’ve ever been. And Apple TV+ is still (probably) not profitable, so I’d say they don’t view Apple TV as a gateway to services at all. It’s still a premium set top box. Lower prices probably means $129 and the features of a budget device.

A device that is natively powered by a TV’s USB port would be a fantastic addition to the product line.

True, the services are available just about everywhere, you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think Apple wants to sell as many AppleTV’s as possible to provide the best AppleTV+ experience as possible.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

True, the services are available just about everywhere, you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think Apple wants to sell as many AppleTV’s as possible to provide the best AppleTV+ experience as possible.

You’re fooling yourself if you think Apple will subsidize their hardware to accomplish that.

 

[0924487]

Put an M1 in the Apple TV you cowards.

And sale for $799 at base?

 

[jca666us]

Put an M1 in the Apple TV you cowards.

Good point on Ethernet. But what else can they really remove? Also they only make so many chips, so unsure how they could offer a slower offering, if A12 is currently the oldest/slowest chip they produce.

Add an M1chip (economies of scale), in addition to removing Ethernet, remove the power brick (run the M1 at slower speed, so you can power it off of usb) and make the enclosure smaller.

 

[BrightDarkSky]

I find the cost to be a non issue in our house.
1. 77-inch OLED TV + 5.1 sound system was $7700. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?
2. 65-inch OLED TV + SONOS ARC was $2500. Who cares about the cost of Apple TV box?

What a bizzare, loopy question. Most people spend 6/700 on thier tv's

"WHO CARES.." about a $180 streaming box..when the competition - without trashy remotes - sell for $50-100?

Sounds like you might just be in here bragging about your expensive tVs. Nice gear is great, but get your shadow brag outta here.

 

[4jasontv]

"WHO CARES.." about a $180 streaming box..when the competition - without trashy remotes - sell for $50-100?

You can still get Apple TV’s with the touchpad remote.

 

[DaveN]

Put an M1 in the Apple TV you cowards.

And then listen to people complain because the price is over $39.

 

[dreamsayer]

For now, I still think Roku is the better option — tons of flexibility, and while it doesn't have all the features you'd get with Apple's hardware, you can still watch Apple TV thru the app, take advantage of Airplay, etc.

I agree. Roku or the Fire. Apple TV is still lacking certain apps on the platform. Same with Chromecast. Plus, my Samsung TV has all the apps I use and want. Why would I need an Apple TV box?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Apple TV stick!

I don’t get the desire for this whatsoever.
An Apple TV stick obviously wouldn’t be able to do the majority of the stuff the current Apple TV does, so it would most likely just be restricted to the tv app and AirPlay.
The vast majority of modern TVs already have the TV app and airplay built-in, so this device would literally be completely useless to a large market.
Now bringing the 4K Apple TV down to somewhere around $129 and sticking an A13 is something that I see extremely possible

 

[thadoggfather]

I don’t get the desire for this whatsoever.
An Apple TV stick obviously wouldn’t be able to do the majority of the stuff the current Apple TV does, so it would most likely just be restricted to the tv app and AirPlay.
The vast majority of modern TVs already have the TV app and airplay built-in, so this device would literally be completely useless to a large market.
Now bringing the 4K Apple TV down to somewhere around $129 and sticking an A13 is something that I see extremely possible

On what basis can you be sure a stick form factor wouldn't allow for functionality?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Add an M1chip (economies of scale), run the M1 at slower speed, so you can power it off of usb and make the enclosure smaller

With absolutely no offense intended, this is exactly why people on this forum don’t work at Apple.
Move from the A12 to the M1… but make the design smaller and require less power.
Insane.
By the way they do make a slower M1 that would be absolutely perfect for an Apple TV.
It’s called the A14, and it’s perfectly capable. There is absolutely no reason for them to include an M1, it would provide no benefits to tvOS.

 

[ihaveathought2021]

I don’t get the desire for this whatsoever.
An Apple TV stick obviously wouldn’t be able to do the majority of the stuff the current Apple TV does, so it would most likely just be restricted to the tv app and AirPlay.
The vast majority of modern TVs already have the TV app and airplay built-in, so this device would literally be completely useless to a large market.
Now bringing the 4K Apple TV down to somewhere around $129 and sticking an A13 is something that I see extremely possible

If you look at the power consumption of the last several Apple TVs (do a search for "environmental reports Apple TV"), a pattern emerges: with the A12, Apple doesn't really need a fan anymore. I don't know why it's in there at all, actually. I mean, the iPhone doesn't need a fan. IF Apple ditches the fan, the power supply board, ethernet port, and IR sensor, they could easily get the A12 ATV 4K hardware down to a stick size, and then just power it off HDMI and USB like everyone else does, and there wouldn't be any limits on performance, unless you need ethernet for some reason.

The A13 would, of course, sip even less power + add UWB.