LaCie Brings USB 3.0 Hard Drive Support to Mac Pros and MacBook Pros

[dukebound85]

I hope you didn't imply what I think you did - especially since "stealing" is a legal concept that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In Switzerland, for example, it's still legal to download copyrighted works for personal use as long as you don't distribute them. So get off your "high" moral US horse or BS about stealing and try to come back with a better argument.

As for Blu-Ray's famed "higher" adoption rate when compared to DVDs, this is just another example of misleading stats...we're talking a WHOLE new migration from a totally different technology (VHS) in much less mature markets in the 80s/90s...to compare that with a world where pretty much everybody owns DVDs is ludicrous to say the least...it's obvious that, for those replacing technology, Blu-Ray may seem as the only way to go...to imply from that that the technology is wildly successful is pathetic.

What evidence do you have that Blu-Ray is dead? There is evidence it is thriving but you are quick to discount it using reasons as above, which imo, doesn't make much sense, and then leap to say it's dead tech. How do you make this leap is my question, especially when the data seems to discount your opinion.

 

[arkmannj]

USB3 is a lot faster in theory than USB2, and even in actual throughput it is still pretty impressive.

USB2 : 60MB/s (actual only ~ 35MB/s)
USB3 : 625MB/s (actual only ~ 400MB/s)

for comparison:

Gigbit ethernet: 125MB/s
Firewire 800: 98.304 MB/s
SATA II (as used in Macbook Pros) : 300 MB/s

But, take note that ExpressCard 34 is only specced to 312.5 MB/s...

It's a comparison like this that makes LightPeak so appealing. I mean Why should a Gigabit networking port running "long" distances get better throughput than most local devices (I know there are trade offs and I'm over simplifying to make my point) When you can have 6 light peak ports, plug in all your stuff into them without worrying about which one is for what. and know you'll have good throughput. Also, I may be wrong, but I'd guess that LightPeak could keep a similar connector and cables through the generations since I think it will be the transmitters/receivers that will be upgraded through the years. That will be nice for hardware designers, and consumers alike. Use the connection for networking, Local Devices, Monitors, etc. (and maybe the MBP will be able to have more than one external monitor hooked up )


Anyhow, I think I'll stick with FW400/800 for my uses until LightPeak gets rockin' and rollin'

I've always had good luck with LaCie Drives (mostly have the Rugged drives kicking around) but I don't think I'll be getting their USB3 ones anytime soon.

 

[50548]

What evidence do you have that Blu-Ray is dead? There is evidence it is thriving but you are quick to discount it using reasons as above, which imo, doesn't make much sense, and then leap to say it's dead tech. How do you make this leap is my question, especially when the data seems to discount your opinion.

Let me put it this way, as I won't repeat my long arguments from past threads: Blu-Ray is a stopgap technology which represents too little, too late in light of recent market evolutions and the increasing onslaught of broadband availability around the world.

It's still expensive in most markets, DRM-ridden (making it very difficult to copy for legal purposes), with VERY limited offerings compared to DVDs (think box sets, for example) and with only MARGINAL advantages over streamed HD or even traditional DVDs. I have a 32-inch HDTV which plays HD from Apple TV and traditional DVDs still looking great for me.

That doesn't mean it's not there. People like you will continue to buy it, as people continue to buy lava lamps - don't ever expect it to represent the ubiquitous leap that CDs and DVDs represented in the world. It's more like Sony's TRAC, MiniDiscs or vinyl today; a nice niche surrounded by much more practical options.

And NO, 99% of the people in the world do NOT care about a better image in 60-inch screens, because 99% of the people in the world do not even IMAGINE having or affording to have a 60-inch TV.

 

[StefSSU]

USB3 is a lot faster in theory than USB2, and even in actual throughput it is still pretty impressive.

USB2 : 60MB/s (actual only ~ 35MB/s)
USB3 : 625MB/s (actual only ~ 400MB/s)

for comparison:

Gigbit ethernet: 125MB/s
Firewire 800: 98.304 MB/s
SATA II (as used in Macbook Pros) : 300 MB/s

But, take note that ExpressCard 34 is only specced to 312.5 MB/s...

Surely the HDD bottleneck would be most relevant? Unless you have a really fast HDD or an SSD, chances are you won't see much higher then the Firewire 800 98.304 MBs^-1 (3d.p.)
(Off topic - why can't I do superscript on MR?)

 

[Edge100]

But which eSATA ExpressCard for Mac is reliable?

This one is in my MBP right now, and has been great.

This one is reliable and VERY fast.

 

[JAT]

Call it what you will. If you are going against the industry standard for content distribution, I find it unethical. My views are based on the Bible, not any particular country's laws. And, holding up the copying as a reason why SALES should be different doesn't even make sense.

As for Blu-Ray's famed "higher" adoption rate when compared to DVDs, this is just another example of misleading stats...we're talking a WHOLE new migration from a totally different technology (VHS) in much less mature markets in the 80s/90s...to compare that with a world where pretty much everybody owns DVDs is ludicrous to say the least...it's obvious that, for those replacing technology, Blu-Ray may seem as the only way to go...to imply from that that the technology is wildly successful is pathetic.

See, now, you use confusing arguments. The fact that BD has the same form factor as DVD should be less reason for people to upgrade, I agree. But the facts speak for themselves, numbers of BD sales are higher than DVD was. I guess you can complain it doesn't mean anything. Keep shouting into the wind.

It's just bizarre the comparisons you and others continue to spew to attempt to contradict actual sales figures. Perhaps you are unaware that MD was a huge hit for over a decade in Japan. Maybe not in Switzerland, don't know. (I know it never really caught on in the USA) But that doesn't make it a stupid idea for Sony to sell it. And it was the most practical, cassettes were garbage, but people continued to stay with them for no reason I can find useful.

My TV is 90", and cost less than most 60" models. Some of us plan. And like I've said before, I'm happy to be in the 5% or even 1% of something. Apparently, I am into niches:

Mac
Projector for TV
Sigma camera (Foveon)
many, many others

 

[AidenShaw]

My views are based on the Bible, not any particular country's laws.

I like shrimp too much to follow that book....

http://godhatesshrimp.com/

 

[deggs37]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

I've got a 32gb USB3 flash drive that I use with my PC. I transfered 20GB of movies from it to my desktop in 2 and half minutes. Too bad there is still a lack of support meaning most of time, getting files from others is still at usb2 speed

I had to change my underwear after I read that.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

End Of The Discussion

Who cares? Light Peak is around the corner. USB 3.0 will be dead like Blu Ray soon.

Blu-Ray is alive and will have a long live. Sandy Bridge contains hardware decoders for Blu-Ray content. However, USB 3.0 is just too old and complicated (i.e. a dead horse). It has no multiprotocol support and is slower than LP.

Here are some official details:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-idf-2010-amd-bobcat,2748-3.html

Pretty scary for AMD, huh!?

;-)

 

[50548]

Call it what you will. If you are going against the industry standard for content distribution, I find it unethical. My views are based on the Bible, not any particular country's laws. And, holding up the copying as a reason why SALES should be different doesn't even make sense.

See, now, you use confusing arguments. The fact that BD has the same form factor as DVD should be less reason for people to upgrade, I agree. But the facts speak for themselves, numbers of BD sales are higher than DVD was. I guess you can complain it doesn't mean anything. Keep shouting into the wind.

It's just bizarre the comparisons you and others continue to spew to attempt to contradict actual sales figures. Perhaps you are unaware that MD was a huge hit for over a decade in Japan. Maybe not in Switzerland, don't know. (I know it never really caught on in the USA) But that doesn't make it a stupid idea for Sony to sell it. And it was the most practical, cassettes were garbage, but people continued to stay with them for no reason I can find useful.

My TV is 90", and cost less than most 60" models. Some of us plan. And like I've said before, I'm happy to be in the 5% or even 1% of something. Apparently, I am into niches:

Mac
Projector for TV
Sigma camera (Foveon)
many, many others

I am probably more Christian than you are, so I would kindly ask you to refrain from using religious arguments here...copying a copyrighted work has nothing to do with ethics or religious values, especially since the interpretation can go both ways for a concept that doesn't even represent ownership in its traditional form...not to mention that it reflects a non-rivalrous good.

As for DRM, I've mentioned it as ONE of the factors, not the main one. But if I feel like copying a disc I've bought as a backup or to play somewhere else, I WILL do it without any remorse or contradiction with my values, and will readily reject a technology that is MORE complicated than it should.

As for "planning", I am glad you enjoy your 90" screen...this doesn't mean you represent a relevant market or an appropriate sample to judge Blu-Ray's success...not by a long shot.

 

[finalcut]

where is the FW2000 or something?
It was supposed to replace FW800

Will USB3.0 take as much CPU as USB2.0 does? I like the way FireWire is working, i,e taking no CPU at all

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Gosh! "X" is dead again (How many times?)! Bla, Bla, Bla...

There will alway be people who collect stuff like towers of CDs or DVDs or now BRDs but those people are in the minority. Most people want to watch a movie when they want to watch it and then move on.

Heck, I know people who still watch VHS tapes, but that doesn't change the fact that VHS is effectively dead.

If Blu-Ray is dead, then Sandy Bridge is dead too, because it contains dedicated Blu-Ray content decoder units. Now i'm sure you will never buy a Mac which contains a Sandy Bridge processor, because it contains "outdated technology".

Next time visit the technology argument academy, before you make such comments as above. It would really help you.

 

[skeep5]

nerd me! I'll take 400 mb/s

 

[Dny]

What makes me sick is that I have hard drives that I can not connect to some computers right now. I have a Mini DV camera that is amazing but has Firewire port. The same with external audio devices.

I mean, I have equipment that runs just fine that were meant to last and is not compatible with todays Mac Pro because the changes in the ports.

The business behind this is to make you buy new equipment because I can not believe you can not configure the actual USB 2 ports to run USB 3 data, I mean, a cable is a cable.

The other result is making me waste money and add more trash to the world.

There are cheap firewire 800 - 400 cables for that ..
Also 800 to mini firewire etc.

Can't think about other issues than that

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Wiki ;-)

La Cie is a French company.

Wikipedia says:
"La Cie, Ltd. (La Cie) was founded in July 1987 in Tigard, Oregon, USA. Joel Kamerman, his parents Robert and Tudy Kamerman, and Roger Bates founded La Cie."

;-)


And btw, not every canadian company is a french company. ;-)

 

[twoodcc]

i think i'll wait on apple on this, aka, lightpeak

 

[deconstruct60]

Very true. This has already been eclipsed by LightPeak which starts shipping in 2011 and runs at 10 gigabits per second.

There seems to be a rash of "Megahertz Myth" irrationality around the USB 3.0 vs. Light Peak debate. 10Gbps is better than 5Gbps so it much be better.

If you want an overly simplistic, unidimensional metric to base your decisions on then go ahead. It is just as fundamentally flawed as evaluating CPUs purely on MHz ( or GHz : MHz x 100 ).

There are some things LP will be more applicable to than USB 3.0. There are other things that it won't be.

Betting against USB 3.0 widespread adoption is a foolish bet. It is on track for both AMD and Intels core chipsets.

Equally LP is quite likely going to remain a discrete solution (like Firewire for most implementations) solution. The adoption and system availability rate are likely to be different for many, many years.

The combination of the two will squeeze out FW (and perhaps a few others) but not each other.

 

[deconstruct60]

where is the FW2000 or something?
It was supposed to replace FW800

Not coming to PC market. Automotive, aerospace perhaps but not generic consumer peripherals.

Will USB3.0 take as much CPU as USB2.0 does? I like the way FireWire is working, i,e taking no CPU at all

FW consumes resources. USB 3.0 will vary with implementation and drivers but can be same as USB 2.0 over at 10x the speed. Meaning that with the speed increase you don't necessarily get any increase in CPU consumption.

So the background USB overhead of your keyboard , camera, etc. isn't going to disappear with USB 3.0. In fact, all of your USB 2.0 devices will be using the same kinds of cirucitry devices they were previously.

Devices that operate purely on the USB 3.0 SuperSpeed bus are faster and have dramatically lower over head in relative to the stuff on the legacy USB 2.0 bus. Additionally since the Super Speed bus is so much faster it is "on" less. Once the data has been transferred the overhead can drop down to zero because there is nothing to do. USB 2.0 is always busy because the controller and CPU has to actively probe the connected devices for new data. Super Speed is a new bus that is not backwards compatible with many of the old USB 2.0 protocols that tended to cause overhead problems.

In short, they fixed many of the problems that AV folks complained about with USB 2.0. You now have a isochronous bus with very good bandwidth (for non bleeding edge video super duper HD video ) that is useful in many situations.

For example this device:
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Can do uncompressed HD video through a HDMI connection. Sure folks are going to invent new problems to solve (Oh what about 3D HD video ), but USB 3.0 is is going to work for a very large number of people for many , many years.


Coupled with the large scale deployment of 2.5+GHz 2-4 core CPUs .... there is no huge CPU overhead problem. Talking like 10% of a single core.
Again folks invent scenarios where some other application is taking up 99% of all available cores. The simple solution is turn some of that other stuff off in many cases. For some it doesn't but for many it will.

 

[pr5owner]

Stillborn? What evidence do you have to say this? Just because its getting off the ground does not mean its stillborn. When Intel begins its formal support of the standard in 2011, we'll see how stillborn it is.

just getting off the ground? no, its gotten off the ground, stores carry THOUSANDS of different USB 3 products, netbooks, laptops, almost all new motherboards have USB

only apple has yet to adopt, my proof? just take a quick look around

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...sp?keywords=usb+3&searchbtn.x=0&searchbtn.y=0

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...A=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=usb+3&x=0&y=0

I didn't realize blu-ray was dead. Can you please post some stats to back this up?

he cant, its just BS he pulled out of no where, BD sales are sky rocketing since BD players can be had for less than $100 at almost ALL major retail outlets (just like DVD)

USB3 is a lot faster in theory than USB2, and even in actual throughput it is still pretty impressive.

USB2 : 60MB/s (actual only ~ 35MB/s)
USB3 : 625MB/s (actual only ~ 400MB/s)

for comparison:

Gigbit ethernet: 125MB/s
Firewire 800: 98.304 MB/s
SATA II (as used in Macbook Pros) : 300 MB/s

But, take note that ExpressCard 34 is only specced to 312.5 MB/s...

AMAZING, the first logical, factual post of this entire thread

Surely the HDD bottleneck would be most relevant? Unless you have a really fast HDD or an SSD, chances are you won't see much higher then the Firewire 800 98.304 MBs^-1 (3d.p.)
(Off topic - why can't I do superscript on MR?)

NO, HDD's can copy at cover 130MB/s (magnetic drives)
SSDs are now at 355MB/s (this is reasonable prices, like $130)

I am probably more Christian than you are, so I would kindly ask you to refrain from using religious arguments here...copying a copyrighted work has nothing to do with ethics or religious values, especially since the interpretation can go both ways for a concept that doesn't even represent ownership in its traditional form...not to mention that it reflects a non-rivalrous good.

As for DRM, I've mentioned it as ONE of the factors, not the main one. But if I feel like copying a disc I've bought as a backup or to play somewhere else, I WILL do it without any remorse or contradiction with my values, and will readily reject a technology that is MORE complicated than it should.

As for "planning", I am glad you enjoy your 90" screen...this doesn't mean you represent a relevant market or an appropriate sample to judge Blu-Ray's success...not by a long shot.

how are you MORE Christian than the next Christian? are you judging? im pretty sure God is the only one that can judge, im not an expert in Christianity but i do know that much.

and your against DRM, same with me, but you choose apple products? only until recently has apple offered DRM free music, what did you do before then?

also apple doesnt offer any solution to compete with BDROMs, unless streaming reaches 40+mbit/s quality, ill say no.

oh BTW @ Aidan Shaw, Christians believe that the new testament overwrites the old testament so that shrimp thing would be void in a Christianity argument... the laws of the old testament only works for that era of history, the new testament was to update the laws so they are more valid to todays society (guessing here)

just saying, again im not expert, its just what i read and see on the INTERNET

 

[pr5owner]

There seems to be a rash of "Megahertz Myth" irrationality around the USB 3.0 vs. Light Peak debate. 10Gbps is better than 5Gbps so it much be better.
.

yes 10 is better than 5, however, optic cables are a PITA becuase they are so fragile compared to stranded copper

fiber costs a hell of a lot more than copper

copper is alot easier to repair than fiber, im willing to bet that nobody here has the equipment to repair fiber optic strands, i remember enmax (local company) had a tool to fuse a glass strand together to repair Internet backbone fiber cables, that little tool was $90,000 and not much bigger than a large shoebox

you cant just glue a fiber strands together, you have to send an arc of high voltage electricity to fuse the glass, the connection has to be flawless or the attenuation will destroy your signal and cable length

i realize consumer fiber cables will be cheap crappy plastic but still, you cant just repair fiber that easily

most fiber cant be bent more than 60 degrees per foot either

this doesn't sound like the most robust solution, only the fastest.

EDIT:

the absolute CHEAPEST fusion splicer i can find on the Internet is in excess of $5000
http://www.aaatesters.com/Sumitomo_Splicers-Sumitomo_Type_25e_Fiber_Fusion_Splicer_w_Cleaver.html

 

[linux2mac]

I didn't realize blu-ray was dead. Can you please post some stats to back this up?

The writing is on the wall. Vudu is offering 1080p videos now to rent and buy for those with 4.5 Mbps download speeds. Besides the Vudu box, companies like the following are building Vudu into their TVs: LG, Toshiba, Vizio, Sanyo, Samsung, Sharp, and Mitsubishi. Then you have Roku Box and now Netflix offering 1080P streaming. So what is really the point of a 1080P physical disc when streaming now offers 1080P? Blu Ray will go the route of Beta, VHS, and yes USB 3.0 with Light Peak around the corner.

 

[deconstruct60]

It's a comparison like this that makes LightPeak so appealing. I mean Why should a Gigabit networking port running "long" distances get better throughput than most local devices (I know there are trade offs and I'm over simplifying to make my point) When you can have 6 light peak ports, plug in all your stuff into them without worrying about which one is for what. and know you'll have good throughput.

there is little evidence that LP improves throughput of specific legacy data streams at all. You get the data of the legacy protocols transported between boxes quickly but there is little to indicate that improves bandwidth. You get the same bandwidth would have had with the legacy connector. It just may work over a longer distance ( e.g., PCI-e ) or with more aggreated trafffic ( USB and Displayport on same wire). The individual streams don't go any faster.

So yes would have to worry about throughput. If plugged up 5 high speed SSD RAID devices you would bottleneck. You don't get more internal bandwidth by hooking up LP on the outside.

You also don't necessarily get "anything to anything" connectivity either.

Your new connector will not be physically compatible with billions of devices already out there. So it really doesn't solve, by itself, pluggging in one of those. LP is only ubiquitous if all of the perhipherals pick it up too. That is extremely unlikely. The peripherals folks already rejected USB 3.0 when it had optical connectors. It is unlikely they have going to change their minds now a couple years later when LP component prices are still substantially higher. They will get cheaper, but so will the physical legacy alternatives that LP is competing with. LP would have to limbo lower and faster than the others to remove that disadvantage. There is little to indicate that is going to happen.



People seem to fixated on perhaps being able to reuse a cable over time and adjustments in technology. LP will get faster and I won't need to buy a new cable. That completely misses the point of where most of the expense lays. Being able to reuse a $10-20 cable won't matter much when need to buy a new $200-2000 box to get the new LP controller embedded in the boxes. Ooooh gooody I saved $15. (when you probably don't when need the $15 USB dongle to hook up a USB device.)

 

[thejadedmonkey]

If Apple doesn't step up to the plate, and other manufacturers have to write their own drivers... Well, OS X is gonna start to look more and more like Windows!

 

[law guy]

So USB3 is still slower than FireWire. Got it.

USB 3.0 has a maximum specification of 5 GB per second at full duplex
FW 800 is (also max spec) 800 MB per second at full duplex

So, it's a definite speed improvement over FW800.

External HD users of normal means find better performance from the current generation of eSATA - 3 GB per second. There is a new eSATA (eSATA 3.0), with Seagate now shipping the Seagate XL that can do 6 GB per second with the new standard, but you need the new controller card to take advantage of that - it's backwards capable to current however.

 

[deconstruct60]

yes 10 is better than 5, however, optic cables are a PITA becuase they are so fragile compared to stranded copper

fiber costs a hell of a lot more than copper

Intel isn't stupid. This is not industrial strength telecom fiber.
Nor is it super-el-cheapo , toy like , plastic junk like Toslink.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ClearCurve

so you can twist/bend it. It isn't going to easily break. Keeping the connectors clean ( putting a cable in a bag with tons of other laptop junk, car keys , business cards , random stuff ) and then connecting it is not well proven in the field either.

It is real fiber but it has limitations. Won't run multimode as easily. Isn't as capable as some of the more long distance oriented alternatives. 100m is probably the extreme range.

Oh and it is made by Corning so won't be able to get it from some cheap Chinese chop shop optical factory. They might have to buy some made in USA parts for once.

copper is alot easier to repair than fiber, im willing to bet that nobody here has the equipment to repair fiber optic strands,

$15-30 cables.... breaks ... buy a new one . These aren't repairable any more than USB 3.0 cables are repairable.

most fiber cant be bent more than 60 degrees per foot either

Buzzzz , thanks for playing..... not true (see link above).


The problem with LP versus USB 3.0 (and other copper stuff) is that it is going to be marginally more expensive. something like $15-20 cables versus $10-15 ones. For manufactures with razor thin margins ( folks other than Intel and Apple ***) that makes a big difference.



*** You can see why Intel is infatuated with LP. Right now they are the only controller vendor so they make megabucks because have a monopoly. Apple isn't going to sell anything without a 25-40% mark up on it. They'll just use higher LP costs to either justify dropped something useful off the box ( oh LP is so expensive we had to drop XXXX ) or just jack up the price another $50-100 and put more money in the bank.