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Landis tests positive for drugs

eh Testosterone can be high for many reasons, including drug use. It can be a defect in the body that causes it to be high.

Nice to know that peoples medical information is given out publicly when if I did this at the hospital I would be fired and fined for violating HIPAA laws.
 
ham_man said:
High Testosterone =/= doping (necessarily)...hopefully Landis gets to clear his name...
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true, but if he had such high natural testosterone wouldn't he fail that test frequently?
I like Landis but that he failed the test in the one stage when he blew everyone away is a bit too much of a coincidence.

to me it looks like a desperate act, when he thought he had nothing to loose anyway (well, other than his career, dignity and the respect of the fans, that is).
At least he got to race and if he comes clear (which i really really hope) he is the tour winner. Ullrich, Basso and the others got kicked out based on rumors (which doesn't mean they don't deserved it: as I said above i believe that very few, if any, professional riders are clean).
 
I wish I was surprised. I wish this was a rare case. Too bad it isn't. I think there are 2 problems with drug use and sports: 1. there's no incentive to not use it 2. the punishment is harsh when given, but most people slip under the radar
 
Don't panic said:
as I said above i believe that very few, if any, professional riders are clean).
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That is like saying that all pro baseball players use steroids. If everyone used them then the playing field would be even and the drugs themselves would be pointless.
 
celebrian23 said:
I wish I was surprised. I wish this was a rare case. Too bad it isn't. I think there are 2 problems with drug use and sports: 1. there's no incentive to not use it 2. the punishment is harsh when given, but most people slip under the radar
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Couldn't disagree more. There is great incentive not to use it, you get to race, win, and test negative. Great life!


You can't speak for most people. That is the problem that these handful of people have cast on the sport. They have all of you thinking that most everyone uses drugs. I completely disagree, and I think that most are clean in the sport. Much cleaner than it used to be...because people know that the testing is more medically advanced than it used to be, and they could get caught easier.

I hope there is another reason besides taking drugs for Floyd's result. Otherwise, I won't be watching cycling anymore....which will hurt immensely. This is terrible for his family and the sport of cycling, and I hope it works out.

I was really going for Tyler before he was banned. That was terrible.
 
celebrian23 said:
I wish I was surprised. I wish this was a rare case. Too bad it isn't. I think there are 2 problems with drug use and sports: 1. there's no incentive to not use it 2. the punishment is harsh when given, but most people slip under the radar
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I am sorry to say this, but I do agree.

There is too much to be gained.
As another posted stated, the punishment is usually quite hard, but most riders are not caught.
Same as in Football (eh.. the soccer version). There is alot to be gained for cheating on the pitch (diving, faking injuries, etc.) and not enough to loose.
And what about the Italian leage scandal (which was dealt with very midly...)?

The fact that all those riders were banned from the start of this year's Tour, along woth the sad Pantani win when the whole Festina team was kicked out of the tour a couple of years ago, should make everyone think about the popular Professional Sports as a whole.

It's sickening.

Either enforce justice far more, or let all the "sportsmen" cheat.. ugghh. :mad:
 
random thought: if you were juiced and you knew you were juiced and you knew that they tested the stage winners, why would you win in such dramatic fashion? everybody on this board seems to believe that the odds of getting caught are miniscule, but isn't the probability of a stage winner testing positive after a stage almost a certainty? if the punishment is severe and the probability of incurring that punishment is almost a certainty, wouldn't the rational decision be to not win?
 
He'll probably use the Linford Christie defence and claim it was ginseng tea.

Either way, this is the wake up call cycling needs. If Landis is found guilty (and I must note the if) at the end of due process, then it will serve as the absolute direct message that cycling is in danger of losing interest from the layman. That riders like Ullrich had to pull out beforehand was bad enough, but being before the race a lot of casual fans probably won't even have noticed. This though is the kind of thing everyone with even the faintest interest in the sport will hear about, and unless the authorities act quickly and (excuse the pun) clinically, then it's going to be a very tough task for the Tour to regain many of the casual fans gained during the Armstrong era (especially, I would guess, in the US).

The German broadcaster ZDF has said that this kind of event will make it reconsider its commitment to showing the Tour. Perhaps this is just a bargaining chip to renegotiate the contract at a lower rate, but either way, it is clear that it is time for the relevant authorities to act.

The ball is, as they say, in their court.
 
Just watched ESPN's SportsCenter item on Floyd, and their analyst had some interesting info. Floyd's testosterone:epitestosterone ratio was above the legal limit, but his testosterone itself wasn't high. It was that his epitestosterone was abnormally low.

There is a ton of speculation as to why that might be, from the cortisone shots he gets for his hip to the shots of Jack Daniels he had after his Stage 16 collapse.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out...this may not be a slam-dunk for the anti-doping folks yet.
 
WildCowboy said:
Just watched ESPN's SportsCenter item on Floyd, and their analyst had some interesting info. Floyd's testosterone:epitestosterone ratio was above the legal limit, but his testosterone itself wasn't high. It was that his epitestosterone was abnormally low.

There is a ton of speculation as to why that might be, from the cortisone shots he gets for his hip to the shots of Jack Daniels he had after his Stage 16 collapse.

It'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out...this may not be a slam-dunk for the anti-doping folks yet.
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i hope you are right. if that is the case, it shouldn't even be considered doping.

i found this old but interesting article from the new yorker:
http://www.gladwell.com/2001/2001_08_10_a_drug.htm
and one from cyclingnews:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=features/2005/avoid_positive
 
eva01 said:
eh Testosterone can be high for many reasons, including drug use. It can be a defect in the body that causes it to be high.

Nice to know that peoples medical information is given out publicly when if I did this at the hospital I would be fired and fined for violating HIPAA laws.
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The French dont have HIPAA,even if they did, many times when it comes to athletes, more informtion is given out than normal. Look at the NFL injury reports as an example.
 
Does anyone know if they tested him before stage 17. There was an article on Yahoo Sports that quoted a doping expert doctor/professor, and he said that Floyd taking Testosterone just for that stage would not have done anything for him, as any enhancement results would come from repeated use, not one time use. So it wouldn't make sense for him to use it on one stage...unless he used it all along and was not tested for it. It will be interesting, but I will believe he is innocent until they hand down judgement for a second positive, and rule out all other causes.

Article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-landis-testosterone&prov=ap&type=lgns
 
crdean1 said:
Does anyone know if they tested him before stage 17. There was an article on Yahoo Sports that quoted a doping expert doctor/professor, and he said that Floyd taking Testosterone just for that stage would not have done anything for him, as any enhancement results would come from repeated use, not one time use. So it wouldn't make sense for him to use it on one stage...unless he used it all along and was not tested for it. It will be interesting, but I will believe he is innocent until they hand down judgement for a second positive, and rule out all other causes.

Article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug=ap-landis-testosterone&prov=ap&type=lgns
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they tested him after i think (as stage winner).
at this moment only landis knows, but if the second test comes positive i think he's toast.
the cortisone shots are likely to be irrelevant (as per your quote) and as far as the thyroid hormones, if it's true he took them and even if that's what caused the testosterone levels to go up, it would still be doping, because he wasn't authorized, plus he didn't disclosed them until he needed an excuse.

and whether the testosterone actually helped him or not in that stage is irrelevant.
if he took steroids he cheated.
If he did take them and didn't need them it would be a really sad irony (kind of like ben johnson getting busted in seul for the only drug he had not taken, when he was doping like a mad man with tons of stuff they didn't detected).

it would be interesting to know what the T/E ratio was in this and all his other tests.
i would be ready to bet that the average of all the raiders is probably 3.5-3.9, with minimal variations, just like their is hematocrit is always 48-49%
then when they go home values go back to 1.5 and 44 respectively.

anyways, even if it turns out he is a complete cheat (or a slightly bigger cheater than everyone else), what he did at morzine remains unbelievable.
 
I'm still trying to get a clear picture of what the actual test results were. The crappy mainstream coverage is just saying "high testosterone" while ESPN and others are saying high ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone due to high testosterone or low epitestosterone. :confused:

It's still going to be a few days until the B sample is tested...
 
Does anybody have info on how independent, untainted these tests are? I realize it was Floyd's own team that announced he had tested positive, but I'm going to consider the conspiracy theorists' approach here and wonder if perhaps the test was compromised. Even if the B sample tests negative, there will probably be the ever-after stigma that he was a suspected doper. Okay, you can rip apart my conspiracy theory now. I'm ready. ;)
 
Mitthrawnuruodo said:
Not necessarily, since the 17th stage was the first he actually won...
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But, he wore yellow before this. From what I remember, the stage winner and the current race leader is tested each day.
 
Mitthrawnuruodo said:
Not necessarily, since the 17th stage was the first he actually won...
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actually i think Phatpat is right they test stage winner and jersey, plus random riders.
i dunno, they keep changing the story: initially was the cortisone and thyroid treatment, now his doctor says he has always had high levels of Testosterone (which should be fairly easy to verify), but he just said in an interview that it's because he had 4 whiskeys and several beers the night before :)eek: ).

Now this last one i find really hard to believe.
I am starting to get bad vibes, i am afraid it's another tyler hamilton story.
 
Ok... I believe you... I thought it only to be stage winners and some random riders... but I've been wrong before and going to be wrong again... ;)
 
The evidence is far from conclusive as of yet...which hasn't prevented the media from summarily excecuting him. I hope he's clean but it's hardly a victory for anyone no matter what the outcome.

Let's wait for more proof and leave the wild speculation to the Op-Ed writers.
 
jasylonian said:
random thought: if you were juiced and you knew you were juiced and you knew that they tested the stage winners, why would you win in such dramatic fashion? everybody on this board seems to believe that the odds of getting caught are miniscule, but isn't the probability of a stage winner testing positive after a stage almost a certainty? if the punishment is severe and the probability of incurring that punishment is almost a certainty, wouldn't the rational decision be to not win?
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Exactly my thought as well. He had to know that he was going to be tested at the end of the stage. Maybe he thought he wouldn't do that well and so thought he would get away with it. Doubtful. Especially since the whole Lance Armstrong debacle last year. If it is true (and I am having doubts about it simply because the logic is mind-numbingly stupid) then do they have a sample to test from the runner up? What if he too, fails? How far down do they go? Do they have samples from EVERY rider to test? They can't very well crucify this rider and hold him to a test that another rider does not have to pass in order to win by default.
 
Mr. Durden said:
Just out of curiosity, do they drug test everyone, or just the winner and random others? I've heard that the cycling world is flooded with performance enhancing drugs, and there are no really "clean" atheletes, just ones who havent been caught yet.:mad:
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Cycling is the most tested sport in the world.

There are a sports with a number of doping cases that don't catch the front page of the newspapers, the television hardly speaks about them.

Not my words, but the words of Jacques Rogge. I think to a certain extent cycling does get singled out for unfair treatment, when many governing bodies of other sports are doing much less to tackle the issue head on.
 
Is it such a big issue? Surely everyone has to be on drugs. The TDF is not possible otherwise at currrent pace, no matter how conditioned you are. I'm sure Armstrong was on whatever and everyone else in the last few years.
 
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