Laptop Ban May Expand to Flights Coming to U.S. From Europe

[smallcoffee]

Stop arguing that point? Sure. I don't argue it, but that isn't going to stop us agitating to restrict the people and settings and types of guns that people can have or that we won't support changes or abolish the 2nd

That's fine. And in that case I'll continue to support any legislation which expands or maintains the Second Amendment, and fight any legislation placing restrictions on firearms, including sensible ones (like background checks at gun shows) because your goal is to remove perhaps the most important right that Americans have instead of work for some sensible compromise.

Glad my side is winning (and will continue to do so)

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

That's fine. And in that case I'll continue to support any legislation which expands or maintains the Second Amendment, and fight any legislation placing restrictions on firearms, including sensible ones (like background checks at gun shows) because your goal is to remove perhaps the most important right that Americans have instead of work for some sensible compromise.

Glad my side is winning (and will continue to do so)

It's the most important right you have? Why are Americans so obsessed by owning guns? lol

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That's fine.........and fight any legislation placing restrictions on firearms, including sensible ones (like background checks at gun shows) because your goal is to remove perhaps the most important right that Americans have instead of work for some sensible compromise.

What would you class as "a sensible compromise"?

It's the most important right you have? Why are Americans so obsessed by owning guns? lol

Yes, the same question has occurred to me.

 

[smallcoffee]

It's the most important right you have? Why are Americans so obsessed by owning guns? lol

Perhaps. The reason for this is that even if it were to be completely ineffective, the right to bear arms is the embodiment of the spirit of the individual. It says to the state, yes perhaps you could kill me, but I can defend myself, if you act in a way that is unjust. In the West, because we enjoy the rights we have created, we often forget that tyrants and evil men and women can and do achieve power and can and do use the state to destroy liberty. Being able to resist that, is in our blood and is as fundamental to the values eschewed by the original rebels of this country as is the freedom of religion or the freedom of speech.

The practical affects of the Second Amendment tend to skew toward bad in some cases. Suicide, accidental deaths, etc... are all very likely increased because of the right to bear arms. But these problems can be solved without giving up our liberty. Suicide can be mostly solved by investment in mental health care. Accidental deaths can be largely solved by proper training. Even if we did nothing, though, and even if we made an inappropriate direct connection where we said firearms == x amount of deaths, it would still be worth it. Just as we don't remove the freedom of speech when some journalist is beheaded in Belgium for speaking his/her mind, we don't remove the right to bear arms when somebody accidentally shoots their own foot.

 

[daflake]

It's the most important right you have? Why are Americans so obsessed by owning guns? lol

Because it is one of our rights, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[smallcoffee]

What would you class as "a sensible compromise"? .

It depends

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It depends

Depends on what?

Well, my question stands.

In the context of this discussion, what would you consider to be a sensible compromise? Or, is such a thing possible?

Reading these threads, I have been struck by the intemperate tone taken by many who have posted, and have come to the conclusion that it may not be possible have any sort of sensible discussion on this matter.

 

[smallcoffee]

Depends on what?

Well, my question stands.

In the context of this discussion, what would you consider to be a sensible compromise? Or, is such a thing possible?

Reading these threads, I have been struck by the intemperate tone taken by many who have posted, and have come to the conclusion that it may not be possible have any sort of sensible discussion on this matter.

Well I don't know what you're seeking compromise on. If it's something like, close the "gun show loophole" or expand background checks, I'm all for both. If it's something like "ban rifles because they look scary" then that's not something I'm really interested in discussing because it's misguided and doesn't solve any real problem.

If it's "get rid of the Second Amendment" then I'll fight even sensible legislation in order to make it much more difficult for someone to achieve that goal.

 

[daflake]

Well I don't know what you're seeking compromise on. If it's something like, close the "gun show loophole" or expand background checks, I'm all for both. If it's something like "ban rifles because they look scary" then that's not something I'm really interested in.

If it's "get rid of the Second Amendment" then I'll fight even sensible legislation in order to make it much more difficult for someone to achieve that goal.

As a gun owner, I am for the above, but the problem is that as soon as we start talking about sensible legistration, stupid things like the "scary black rifle" or "magazine size ban" start creeping into the conversation. Hell, wasn't it a year ago that they tried to get wet nitrate banned (you know, so they could ban ammunition)?

If you could keep the crazy out of it (on both sides) I am sure sensible laws could be passed. Will it help? Probably not for many years but it would be a start.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well I don't know what you're seeking compromise on. If it's something like, close the "gun show loophole" or expand background checks, I'm all for both. If it's something like "ban rifles because they look scary" then that's not something I'm really interested in discussing because it's misguided and doesn't solve any real problem.

If it's "get rid of the Second Amendment" then I'll fight even sensible legislation in order to make it much more difficult for someone to achieve that goal.

Fair enough and thanks for the considered response.

 

[niploteksi]

One could perhaps say that we have seen more killings take place in America by gun compared to people being killed by laptops or tablets on planes but yet we still decided to ban those on planes instead of banning guns in public.

Basically you should legalize guns on planes. That would have been the logical solution to the problem with dangerous laptops.
[doublepost=1494931508][/doublepost]

Reading these threads, I have been struck by the intemperate tone taken by many who have posted, and have come to the conclusion that it may not be possible have any sort of sensible discussion on this matter.

Maybe not sensible, but at least entertaining.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

As a gun owner, I am for the above, but the problem is that as soon as we start talking about sensible legistration, stupid things like the "scary black rifle" or "magazine size ban" start creeping into the conversation. Hell, wasn't it a year ago that they tried to get wet nitrate banned (you know, so they could ban ammunition)?

If you could keep the crazy out of it (on both sides) I am sure sensible laws could be passed. Will it help? Probably not for many years but it would be a start.

But - reading countless numbers of these threads on this forum - I have been struck by the intemperate tone - which does prompt thoughts on the lines of "keep the crazy out of it".

It seems as though it is extraordinarily difficult to have a sane and sensible conversation on this topic.

Nevertheless, @smallcoffee's suggestions on background checks and on addressing the gun show loopholes strike me as perfectly sensible.

 

[niploteksi]

Nevertheless, @smallcoffee's suggestions on background checks and on addressing the gun show loopholes strike me as perfectly sensible.

In my country we've had gun-amnesty days when people may drop of weapons and ammunition anonymously and without any fear of being prosecuted even if they turned in grenades or automatic weapons.

They have collected tons of firearms and ammunitions this way.

 

[daflake]

But - reading countless numbers of these threads on this forum - I have been struck by the intemperate tone - which does prompt thoughts on the lines of "keep the crazy out of it".

It seems as though it is extraordinarily difficult to have a sane and sensible conversation on this topic.

Nevertheless, @smallcoffee's suggestions on background checks and on addressing the gun show loopholes strike me as perfectly sensible.

It very much is... I have never been able to have a level headed converstation (especially on a forum like this) about firearms. Both sides want all or none, so I don't expect anything to happen on it anytime soon sadly.
[doublepost=1494932225][/doublepost]

In my country we've had gun-amnesty days when people may drop of weapons and ammunition anonymously and without any fear of being prosecuted even if they turned in grenades or automatic weapons.

They have collected tons of firearms and ammunitions this way.

That simply won't work in the USA. The Constitution allows us to have them so people aren't willing going ot turn them in. As it stands now, you can take guns you don't want to the police station and have them destroyed.

 

[dan110]

So kids deaths are nonsense in your eyes? Let alone all the other rampant gun crime?

Fact is that small children kill more people in the US than terrorists.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-toddlers-kill-more-people-than-terrorists-do

Why? Because the US has an archaic view regarding guns and whatever you say the laws in some ways are so inflexible that no one dare their political careers tackling it. NRA and money is king in this matter.

As for states being profitable... I hope so.. the US is 40x the size of UK - it's half the size of California and 5x the population... oh but wait a minute US has the second highest national debt and is basically owned by china.

Say hello to President Dumbf for me Pardner, yehaaaar pow pow pow.

This is why you'll always be the US' mistress in the anglophile world.

(1) Again for the slow witted, our gun culture helped us to free ourselves from King George. Apparently, you're not taught that in school. Its also that culture that has protected the UK since WWI, WWII, and The Cold War. But we're nice enough not to throw that in your face. Without the US there would be no independent UK. I'm sure you didn't learn that in school either. #tryharder

(2) As Maggy warned you socialism works until the money runs out and it has in the UK. Furthermore, your foolish romance with the EU's socialism broke you even further to the point that Nigel Farage had to work tirelessly to save you from your own international folly.

Yeah, stay over there. We're doing just find on this side of the pond. I'm glad we're tightening up our borders against the unwanted and the feeble minded.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

(1) Again for the slow witted, our gun culture helped us to free ourselves from King George. Apparently, you're not taught that in school. Its also that culture that has protected the UK since WWI, WWII, and The Cold War. But we're nice enough not to throw that in your face. Without the US there would be no independent UK. I'm sure you didn't learn that in school either. #tryharder

(2) As Maggy warned you socialism works until the money runs out and it has in the UK. Furthermore, your foolish romance with the EU's socialism broke you even further to the point that Nigel Farage had to work tirelessly to save you from your own international folly.

Yeah, stay over there. We're doing just find on this side of the pond. I'm glad we're tightening up our borders against the unwanted and the feeble minded.

Oh my god I've just read this arrogant tripe and laughed out loud. Saved us? No we are taught America was an important ally that helped, not 'saved' like your Hollywood films like to portray. I'm sure you do learn the latter part in your schools though as I see all too often Americans 'throwing that in our faces' with hilarious effect.

Nigel Farage saved us? Just because that racist bigot showed up at a few Trump rallies and you liked him, does not mean he has any integrity over here. The desire to leave the EU long precedes Farage and his joke of a political party. They held their hands up and admitted they had no clue how to run the country without EU money and no longer have an MP. Like Piers Morgan I think Farage would go down a storm in the US. He's yours...

 

[Cox Orange]

work tirelessly to save you from

I find it funny that "the right" in these days often uses the language of a certain time and/or societies/states. "Our dear leader Vladimir Illjitsch works tirelessly to save us from..." (they were referring to Lenin, but you find that style still today in Russia, as well as in other autocracies, when the people hail their leader).

Like: "no one is sacrificing himself as much as our dear leader [insert first real name or describing names like "the great sun of the earth"]." and of course they work endlessly 24/7 for their "people". As if they speak of a messiah or a marrtyr. He doesn't just work for the people (like every elected politician should), no they save them from something, like Jesus has died for their sins.

 

[prowlmedia]

This is why you'll always be the US' mistress in the anglophile world.

(1) Again for the slow witted, our gun culture helped us to free ourselves from King George. Apparently, you're not taught that in school. Its also that culture that has protected the UK since WWI, WWII, and The Cold War. But we're nice enough not to throw that in your face. Without the US there would be no independent UK. I'm sure you didn't learn that in school either. #tryharder

(2) As Maggy warned you socialism works until the money runs out and it has in the UK. Furthermore, your foolish romance with the EU's socialism broke you even further to the point that Nigel Farage had to work tirelessly to save you from your own international folly.

Yeah, stay over there. We're doing just find on this side of the pond. I'm glad we're tightening up our borders against the unwanted and the feeble minded.

With all your insults, blustering, living in the past and ranting about King George (says it all really); like most republicans, you can't or don't want to actually read or reply to what is posted and just keep babbling away like the Presidump....I am American, I was born in Colarado. #tryharder

 

[stylinexpat]

Basically you should legalize guns on planes. That would have been the logical solution to the problem with dangerous laptops.
[doublepost=1494931508][/doublepost]

Maybe not sensible, but at least entertaining.

Sad that these days one can not take an iPad or laptop on a plane with them these days to watch a movie or do some work. I reckon iPad and laptop sales for Apple will drop next quarter

 

[ericwn]

It's the most important right you have? Why are Americans so obsessed by owning guns? lol

It's just a symptom of what you get when you have low education. You focus on the things that make a bang or a boom as if they had any real relevance in life.

 

[smallcoffee]

It's just a symptom of what you get when you have low education. You focus on the things that make a bang or a boom as if they had any real relevance in life.

Nah. I think what happens is most people become complacent with rights guaranteed by the constitution. They think "oh we don't need that", whether it's the right to bear arms, or speak your mind. That's why we have things like the NSA spying on Americans and rampant a growing police state. If you have an Xbox or Pinterest you don't need to think about the consequences of the dissolution of civil rights. Why do that when you can be a good boy or girl and let the state decide what is best for you? Oh btw, don't vote because "it doesn't matter".

 

[Tech198]

Basically you should legalize guns on planes. That would have been the logical solution to the problem with dangerous laptops.
[doublepost=1494931508][/doublepost]

Maybe not sensible, but at least entertaining.

oh ya.... a dog fight with guns going off in all directions... passengers taking cover, and no one can do nothing about it.... and no one will be left to get off at the other end.

1000 people left U.S, but no one arrived...

It doesn't matter where a laptop is on a flight....

 

[ineedamac]

I think the real issue is that lots of laptops will be stolen. I would never put something that valuable in my checked luggage.

I think the issue is also how many laptops that are in checked luggage are broken. Plus all of the wasted hours are the airport when I could be working while waiting for my flight but I can't since my laptop is in my checked luggage.

 

[MRrainer]

So, will baggae handlers receive a crash course in how not to throw, destroy and mutilate luggage?

Once the laptop is stolen, it's handled very carefully so it can be resold on eBay "in mint condition".