This is exactly what my response will be.
[doublepost=1494576839][/doublepost]
Every bomb dropped recruits more terrs.
[doublepost=1494577043][/doublepost]
Don't fancy our chances against gunships and cruise missiles.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Laptop Ban May Expand to Flights Coming to U.S. From Europe
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
[doublepost=1494576839][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1494577043][/doublepost]
Ohh Where can I go buy some of them? Oh... Probably any old Gun show in Louisiana with a fake driving licence.
Sure, so stop arguing about it. It means citizens have the right to own firearms, pistols, rifles, etc.... Case closed no more discussion needed.
Do you understand why this is?
[doublepost=1494579405][/doublepost]
As though the US Military would bomb it's own people. 0 Chance of that happening.
Pretty sure the military would break apart if the governemnt tried to turn it on its people. It would not go well.
OK, I understand. We need the TSA because otherwise we would have people bringing explosives on planes in their shoes or underwear.
Oh but only two made it aboard planes as opposed to all the zero that they stopped. This is a highly effective solution that every nation in the world has adopted not because it makes people feel warm and fuzzy and the US demanded it in order to enter our country but because it works.
It can just as well mean that the collective people of a state who sometimes make up the militia has the right to bear arms to protect the free State. It doesn't state that every individual has the right to bear arms at anytime.
In most of the world it would mean that the militia has the right to arm its members in the protection of the free State. In the US you have a cultural tradition of toting around firearms since it's been a lawless land for so long. Nothing wrong with that. Feeling secure is very important to people's well-being. In fact it's the second "floor" in Maslow's Hierarchy!
Incidentally, it's the first floor for gun manufacturers and gun lobbyist. When I think about it you can actually fill your entire pyramid with the need for guns.
I never understood this mentality. So you are saying that it is pointless to have security because they haven't caught anyone? You don't think or believe that it could be used as a deterrent and provide some level of secuity?
News flash for you... Security in our airports was lacking over security in Europe before 911. As I said, it was not uncommon to see a Polizei walking around with a MAC-10 or similar weapon. They have since dialed it back to closely match what we have implemented in the USA. The Europeans have been dealing with terrorism a lot longer than the USA even BEFORE the boarders were opened.
Yeah but now you're debating the interpretation. You're not supposed to do that according to the person I responded to.
I think there is more to it than that, particularly for the kinds of extremists who commit suicidal attacks. I read a story awhile back about somebody involved in the Nuremberg trials after WWII. They were ask what made the Nazi's so horrible. The answer was 'patriotism', which was used to justify an 'us-vs-them' world view along with the idea that self-sacrifice (and the murdering of others) was necessary for the survival of the state to which they were loyal. The fools in ISIS seem to me to fall into the category of blind patriots, but I worry we're seeing blind patriots in Western countries.
Locking Doors is a choice that one makes. A choice to live in fear.
Get in your car and drive east of the nation's Capitol and your likelihood of returning in one piece diminishes with each yard you drive. 3 - 20 Killings per day depending on temperature, humidity and day. Warm Humid Sunday, 10-20 is a potential number. Kids, Bystanders whatever... falling victim to violence - caused by the inhabitants of the Nation's Capital Wash.D.C, not the people traveling with Laptops.
Instead of dealing those issues - they decide to ban laptops on flights because Terrorists could turn it into a bomb.
You can bring a laptop as long as you check it in with luggage. You just cannot bring it into the cabin.
So it is OK if it goes off in the luggage compartment - as LONG as it doesn't go off in the cabin.
What kind of logic is that ? If it were a real danger and laptops could potentially hold dangerous bombs I seriously doubt that they would be allowed to be checked in to luggage. And if they can detect a bomb inside a laptop in the luggage they too could check for it in the hand luggage.
Say for a minute the Laptop-bomb danger is REAL... And culprits could build a bomb into an iPad or Laptop which would be able to take down a plane. Would you feel safe with such a thing being checked in to Luggage ?????
[doublepost=1494593287][/doublepost]
what terrorists ???
The ones the Media and Government create to keep us all in FEAR...
If it weren't for the media - 99.99% of all people wouldn't know what one looked like nor would they ever stand a chance of meeting one.
In the US - the chance of being killed by a US Citizen with a Gun or Knife is so much greater than falling victim to a terrorist with a suicide bomb. Heck chances for an innocent person to get wrongfully shot by a US Police Officer are greater than getting injured in a Terroristic attack. Think about that.
I aint scared of a terrorist with a bomb belt - whom I have only come to know because the media celebrates him with 24/7 live coverage...
What I am scared of, however, is sending my kids off to any kind of standard school, anywhere in the US. Because you never know when some kind of frustrated and scared individual will bring a gun to school and start shooting.
But hey, lets ban laptops on schools too - They just might hold a bomb.
No, lets ban laptops all together. No More laptops... They are even more dangerous than Guns.
Soon you will have The National Laptop Association.
[doublepost=1494593884][/doublepost]
If the Media and Television would not cover this at all -> the guy would have never done it.
The media is a Godsend to ALL frustrated individuals.... Each media outlet might just come out and say it...
"If you contemplate suicide -> at least go out as a hero -> We've got your back.
Get into a car, truck, airplane or whichever can do damage to other people and do it.
In return we'll make sure the entire world knows who you are, were and stood for"
That is a very very very attractive offer to a suicidal person who has nothing to loose...
End your life with the whole world knowing who you are and what your beliefs were...
Last edited:
What I'm saying is the ROI isn't there for TSA checkpoints. It's primarily security theater. It makes passengers feel warm and cozy that our government is watching out and getting all the bad guys so we'll be willing to fly. The reality is that time and time again when tested they fail. I'm too lazy to cite all the articles for you this morning but you can Google and find numerous examples of tests in which firearms etc... were passed through airport screening. I also referred to two real examples of live explosives - not as part of an internal test but possessed by terrorists intent on detonating them in flight - passed through this same security screening. To contrast, there are zero examples of thwarted attacks by TSA checkpoints. And yes, we would know, they post everything they confiscate on Instagram (check it out sometime, plenty of novelty items taken from tourists).
Intelligence, air marshals, and aware passengers have been our real line of defense since September 11th. I'd like to see resources diverted from things that are expensive and almost entirely for show (TSA checkpoints) to more effective or innovative approaches.
Life is dangerous. Some nut can walk into a movie theater with a gun and start shooting people, we're not all afraid to watch movies unless they install a government agency to search everyone entering though. There are any number of ways that someone can kill on an airplane too (and that will get through security checkpoints). It's time to acknowledge that TSA is a failure and find a better path forward.
You don't have any idea what this man's motivation was, so don't pretend you do. There may have been a religious component (yes, despite his apparent lack of religious practice), and it may have been as you said, that he was merely seeking to make a posthumous name for himself. Then again, it could also have been because some French deli had given him a lousy sandwich. The reality is that he's not alive to tell us, so it's all just speculation. The only thing that's certain is that he did it. You can't blame the media, you can't blame the gun, you can't blame the truck and you can't blame the deli owner. You can only blame the man who committed the crime. Most of us don't do it, which means there was something wrong with the man, not any of the inanimate objects, or media (which may be an inanimate object itself, under a certain light).
I see you're hailing from London. So, I understand why you still don't get "it" ... even though 1,000s of British soldiers had to die before King George got "it". Even more ironic, the ideas of "Natural Law" did not originate in North America. They came from several sources and philosophers and were eloquently expanded upon by an Englishmen named John Locke. I highly recommend that you read his seminal book, "Two Treatise of Government" (1689) before you try to comment on The US Constitution, The Bill of Rights, and American Ideas.
The Founders wrote these words in plain English. The Second Amendment is very clear. There's no need for lawyers or laymen to use "semantics" to understand what it means unless one is trying to undermine the established meaning.
"A well regulated Militia*, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
* see: "US Code Title X Chapter 246" that expands on the definition of "Militia"*
That part where is states: "... being necessary to the security of a free State" is not directed only at external "enemies". It's intended for ALL enemies whether foreign or domestic. Hence, if the State is no longer "free" for the "Individual" aka "We The People", then "The State" has become a domestic enemy. This is the very basis of why The Colonies, composed of British subjects, took up arms against The Crown who had the most powerful military of the time.
How you do not understand this is baffling.
Like most that do not understand what their reading and those that do not understand natural law, they refer to the empty straw man fallacy that one must have nuclear weapons, tanks, etc to resist their government. I don't have the time to dive into why this is such a weak argument, both intellectually and spiritually. Look at history on those that have resisted tyranny and you'll find that they usually did it against all odds and they didn't wait until they had a bloated budget and resources to match their oppressors.
[doublepost=1494615119][/doublepost]
Truthertech, this is so sadly wrong. Most other countries do NOT use "TSA type model". Why? Because the TSA is kabuki theatre that is only suppose to give the illusion of safety while (1) providing jobs to the low strata of the work force (2) a source for government contracts to connected industries.
If the TSA is known for anything it's for stalling travel, harassing passengers, and stealing property. But it doesn't have a positive reputation for deterring terrorism.
The Israelis have gone on record to say that the TSA is a complete and utter embracing joke in regards to deterring real terrorism. [Google it]
Last edited:
You said "nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs", which is... well, it's kind of sad and I was just reminding you that there are other ways to pass time besides "staring at advertisements". The rest of what you say here, well, that's just you making stuff up about a "slippery slope" and all that. I get that you have very important computer programming to do, and I really sympathize dude. It must suck that you have to program on the seatback tray of an airplane tho.
[doublepost=1494624805][/doublepost]
Super confused right now. I thought "security" was like thing #1 that conservatives LOVE. So a bunch of whiny liberals can't fly for a few hours without their precious laptops and... you're siding with them? Just trying to figure out who the snowflakes are here.
Why not just ban Trump from Twittering and Facebook to make flying safe and America Great again.
Probably because the British have moved on. We don't base modern views on that period anymore and it baffles me why Americans are so obsessed with it.
This is not at all what fascism looks like.
It's what Terrorism and a Government response to terrorist threats looks like.
Then you don't understand security. Let's put it this way... If I have soldiers guarding the entrance to my compound but they haven't seen any attacks or terrorists, would it be wise for me to remove them? Your home has never been broken into , would it be wise for you to leave the doors unlocked? The simple answer is no...
You can google crap to back any side of a story. I have no doubts that they missed some items, **** happens. However, the amount of crap they collect should tell you that it is actually working and just because you think a person is "a tourist" doesn't mean they actually are. I have seen children fire at soldiers.
Life is dangerous (I have lived in danger most of my life in some of this crappiest areas on earth) but that doesn't mean we should just relax and drop our guards. The TSA (while I do despise them) do provide a level of protection even if you don't understand it.
Perhaps, but it doesn't help to have a porous border with Mexico and Central America, which have homicide rates approaching and surpassing some combat zones. Mexico is second only to Syria by IISS figures...
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/americas/mexico-second-deadliest-conflict-2016/
The amount of gangs and criminals in the U.S. is a really big issue that many don't seem to want to tackle any way other than just "gun control", which means nothing to people who care not for the law.
By all means, go for it... but don't be surprised when nothing improves because it isn't the source of the problem. Having people who want to harm other people is the root.