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Larry Ellison Compares HP CEO's Forced Resignation to Jobs' Ouster at Apple

hexor said:
Ellison is an idiot. Like any experience in your life it shapes who you are and without Steve being kicked out he wouldn't be who he is today.. and there never would have been a NeXT company to buy!
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I see it differently. If Steve had remained at Apple and brought in the talent that made NeXT what it was into Apple from the very beginning, maybe, just maybe, Apple would not have stagnated the way it did in the first place and their main OS would have been brought into line with current technology much sooner than they managed to get OS X out the door.

But we don't know really. Did getting fired make him better or did it just prevent him from making Apple what it is today sooner ?

backdraft said:
Well if thats the case then Apple can buy HP when it hits rock bottom. They can pick up their IP and any useful tech.
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Please god no. Apple doesn't understand HP's market. Business, Enterprise. Stuff Apple dreams about understanding one day. I don't want to have to go to an Apple store to get one of my RX8640 serviced. The things weight a ton and a half and shutting any of them down for more than 5 minutes results in several levels of management breathing down my neck.
 
No question about it, Jobs revived Apple when they needed it most. However, lately I'm not sure he is worth what everyone hypes him up to be.

I figure I'll get flamed for this, but frankly he has been a disappointment lately. I don't think he is stimulating an organic growth. I think he has begun promoting those that simply agree with him. I don't think they are thinking different much anymore. It seems to me everyone is thinking the same.
 
darwen said:
No question about it, Jobs revived Apple when they needed it most. However, lately I'm not sure he is worth what everyone hypes him up to be.

I figure I'll get flamed for this, but frankly he has been a disappointment lately. I don't think he is stimulating an organic growth. I think he has begun promoting those that simply agree with him. I don't think they are thinking different much anymore. It seems to me everyone is thinking the same.
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Thats a question someone whos been around the tech indestery a long time (meaning 20 + years kids) can answer.
 
Yep ....

IMHO, HP ran aground when the last of the original family ceased having any say in the business. Under Carly's watch, we saw what happen, really? HP merged with the nearly bankrupt Compaq? So two companies with competing, similar products merge and it costs who knows how much to re-brand everything and decide which products to keep and which to can... No exciting new technologies obtained out of the deal, or even a new customer base (since most people buying Compaq were just as happy to buy HP, or vice-versa). And Hurd? Exactly ... just another axe-wielder hired to pinch some more pennies and make "strategic purchasing decisions".

I don't blame the board for asking Hurd to resign, at all. If you're dishonest enough to charge up $20,000 to the company, via falsified expense reports (when it's not like you couldn't have just afforded to pay those bills yourself, with the salary you get as CEO), how can you have any faith in the man's other decisions? EG. When he suggests a merger, is it because it's a good idea for HP, or is there some kick-back in the deal for him or his personal friends?


PygmySurfer said:
As a former HP employee, I think I can safely say Crazy Larry is way off base here. Hurd did nothing but buy up companies, and cut jobs.

I'm sure Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard have been spinning in their graves the past few years, seeing what has become of this once great company.
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kingtj said:
No exciting new technologies obtained out of the deal, or even a new customer base (since most people buying Compaq were just as happy to buy HP, or vice-versa).
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Uh ? Really ? You do know the consumer x86 boxes is just a small facet of what was Compaq and what HP was and is today right ?

No exciting stuff out of Compaq ? You do know they had acquired Digital corporation before getting bought out by HP right ? There were probably a few engineering gems in there (including Tru64, OpenVMS, and the Alpha architecture).
 
At that time compaq was famous for their white towers with the color face plates. You could buy a set of faceplates and just swap them out. the CD holder in front. At the time Compaq had the best looking machines in the Pc indrestery. (Dell had the ugly gray. HP also getting in to the gray. Emachines was beige. You get the idea)

sure you can say the stole the idea from Apple (color machines), but still. They were nice looking. They ran ME and XP though.

B00005V7J8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
 
darwen said:
No question about it, Jobs revived Apple when they needed it most. However, lately I'm not sure he is worth what everyone hypes him up to be.
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Agreed. I look at it the same way I look at Churchill; Few people will say that Churchill wasn't the leader that England needed during WWII. Arguably, one of the reasons that Germany never set foot on English soil was his leadership. However, once the war ended and it was time to return to normal life, Churchill wasn't the man for the job anymore and he was ousted.

Same with Steve. He revived Apple from the bring of death and made them a powerful force in technology. However, the his traits that once saved Apple might be hurting them now because Apple needs a different kind of leader now that the "war" is over...

Just my 2 cents.
 
Ansuz82 said:
Agreed. I look at it the same way I look at Churchill; Few people will say that Churchill wasn't the leader that England needed during WWII. Arguably, one of the reasons that Germany never set foot on English soil was his leadership. However, once the war ended and it was time to return to normal life, Churchill wasn't the man for the job anymore and he was ousted.

Same with Steve. He revived Apple from the bring of death and made them a powerful force in technology. However, the his traits that once saved Apple might be hurting them now because Apple needs a different kind of leader now that the "war" is over...

Just my 2 cents.
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Well remember back in the early to mid 90s. Apple had a truck load of models for their computers? (Few all in ones. Few towers, few desk towers (the horizontal ones) and wasn't there a few issues with the mac OS? Once steve came back and pissed off a lot of mac users with the microsoft partnership he cleaned up the line and with in a few years he became CEO.

Speaking of whitch, compare macworld 1997 and macworld 2007.
 
Whether or not Hurd screwed the bimbo is irrelevant.

He was asked to "resign" because he falsified his expense reports (also known as "theft"). (Larry Ellison's comment that "he is the CEO so he obviously didn't type his expense reports himself therefore he is not responsible" is probably the lamest comment I have ever heard.)

Most employees caught stealing from their companies would be fired with no benefits/compensation (termination with cause).

Hurd gets caught stealing from his company and gets a $50 million bonus. Go figure...
 
Ansuz82 said:
Same with Steve. He revived Apple from the bring of death and made them a powerful force in technology. However, the his traits that once saved Apple might be hurting them now because Apple needs a different kind of leader now that the "war" is over...

Just my 2 cents.
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The thing is though, that Jobs have also successfully expanded the company in to new markets while still growing in the previous ones. He saved the Mac. He brought in the iPod. And with perfect timing he has brought in the iPhone and iPad. At least there is no signs what so ever that he is hurting them now - the fact that 50 percent of their revenue now comes from products that didn’t exist three years ago is IMO a clear sign that he is still pushing the company in the right direction at the right time. Any other opinion is simply subjective and speculative, because if you look at the numbers, they're ****ing awesome right now.
 
AAPLaday said:
Look how smart Steve looked back when he used to make an effort :eek:
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Take a picture of yourself now, come back 20 years later after surviving cancer , and then we'll talk regarding your senseless comment above...
 
There may always be reasons that a CEO is fired in addition to the ones they reveal. I didn't think that was the case here, but I guess there's no way to know what we don't know.

But I know just how Mark Hurd feels since I was fired once too. Except the only charge against me was that I did a bad job watering the neighbor's lawn. And my severance payment was $50 million less.
 
You deserve slightly less than what you make for your bosses

The comments in here are ridiculous. Hurd was not "dime-a-dozen". CEOs are never dime-a-dozen. They make their money because they can lead a company. They are ultimately where the buck stops when it comes to the performance of a company and they work crazy hours. On top of that, in most cases they've been working their way up the whole time. They're incredibly driven people who are often born to lead.

You don't promote people like Woz to CEO because they're great engineers BECAUSE they're great engineers. You'd be taking them out of the jobs they're the best at. You promote people to CEO who can rally people behind them and give people confidence in the company. Sure, this guy was no Steve Jobs... but let's be honest... No one is Steve Jobs besides Steve Jobs and that's why there's another article written about him every other day. Besides Jobs, there are a lot of visionary CEOs out there who do a lot of hard work and take a lot of ****.

It's rarely about the money for these guys because otherwise they would have stopped at a job with far fewer headaches that only pays a couple million a year. They make the companies they work for millions and billions of dollars and they deserve a big chunk of that. If Michael Jordan brought the NBA millions of dollars, then he is not overpaid. It was him bringing in all that money. It's these CEOs decisions – not armchair punditry – that give thousands their jobs and paycheques. Layoffs suck, but they do so to increase profits and others in their employ can continue to work.
 
ChrisGonzales90 said:
At that time compaq was famous for their white towers with the color face plates. You could buy a set of faceplates and just swap them out. the CD holder in front. At the time Compaq had the best looking machines in the Pc indrestery. (Dell had the ugly gray. HP also getting in to the gray. Emachines was beige. You get the idea)

sure you can say the stole the idea from Apple (color machines), but still. They were nice looking. They ran ME and XP though.

B00005V7J8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
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Well as a relative industry old timer(20 years) the biggest plus for me with Compaq was the knowledge it acquired when they purchased DEC - man those time served service engineers were the best. They had real knowledge and experience about the kit they were maintaining and I learnt a lot from them as they were so willing to have a chat - this slowly changed as soon as HP got them - that company visibly wore these guys out and most of them left/retired.

I miss those days with my Vax servers and Compaq servers/PC's - ah well.
 
macshark said:
Whether or not Hurd screwed the bimbo is irrelevant.

He was asked to "resign" because he falsified his expense reports (also known as "theft"). (Larry Ellison's comment that "he is the CEO so he obviously didn't type his expense reports himself therefore he is not responsible" is probably the lamest comment I have ever heard.)

Most employees caught stealing from their companies would be fired with no benefits/compensation (termination with cause).

Hurd gets caught stealing from his company and gets a $50 million bonus. Go figure...
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+1 Bingo!

Larry's comment is your typical CEO frat club member covering for their own.

Guess, membership does have it's privileges even if you break company rules. Which is wrong but this has been happening since the beginning of time, so there's nothing we can do about it.
 
Dusse said:
The thing is though, that Jobs have also successfully expanded the company in to new markets while still growing in the previous ones. He saved the Mac. He brought in the iPod. And with perfect timing he has brought in the iPhone and iPad. At least there is no signs what so ever that he is hurting them now - the fact that 50 percent of their revenue now comes from products that didn’t exist three years ago is IMO a clear sign that he is still pushing the company in the right direction at the right time. Any other opinion is simply subjective and speculative, because if you look at the numbers, they're ****ing awesome right now.
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I don't disagree, but I wonder how long that can last. The "i" series was certainly well timed and it earned them a major place in the tech sphere but Apple is big enough now that they they are targeted by competition. Thats a new thing for Apple.

The iPhone was a true Apple-esque revolution but what has changed since it was released? Sure, there are new features here and there but the phone itself isn't all that different. Meanwhile, you have consumers beginning to look to the competition, which has improved by leaps and bounds in those years. Don't forget that Android, for all its faults, is a major competitor now an has been moving up on Apple's strong market push.

Lets also not forget that users are asking for a lot of things that Apple isn't giving. Regardless of your opinions on the features themselves, there are users asking for Flash, for bluray on Macs, for the a mid price machine, etc. Apple did well in the past by following its own path but as their market share increased and competition heats up its going to get harder and harder to keep high growth without listening to what people want

I won't ever say that Jobs isn't an amazing leader - he is. He did amazing things that are almost unequaled in the tech industry. My only point was that he was the leader Apple needed to get them where they are but I don't know if hes the leader to take them where they are going...
 
This from Larry Ellison, the guy who in 1997 said that if he were Steve Jobs, he would liquidate Apple, sell off all their assets, and call it a day.

On the one hand Ellison makes an interesting point that Hurd's performance was correcting the mess Carly Fiorina made (and got paid a $40 million severance as "punishment" for running HP into the toilet).

On the other I can't help but think Ellison has a lot of hindsight and no foresight.
 
ChrisGonzales90 said:
At that time compaq was famous for their white towers with the color face plates. You could buy a set of faceplates and just swap them out. the CD holder in front. At the time Compaq had the best looking machines in the Pc indrestery. (Dell had the ugly gray. HP also getting in to the gray. Emachines was beige. You get the idea)

sure you can say the stole the idea from Apple (color machines), but still. They were nice looking. They ran ME and XP though.

B00005V7J8.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Click to expand...

I think at the time Dell also had white towers, but were transitioning to the grey/black scheme.
 
Avatar74 said:
This from Larry Ellison, the guy who in 1997 said that if he were Steve Jobs, he would liquidate Apple, sell off all their assets, and call it a day.
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That was Michael Dell. :rolleyes: Ellison became an Apple board member in 1997 after Jobs forced most of the old Apple board to resign.
 
Avatar74 said:
This from Larry Ellison, the guy who in 1997 said that if he were Steve Jobs, he would liquidate Apple, sell off all their assets, and call it a day.

On the one hand Ellison makes an interesting point that Hurd's performance was correcting the mess Carly Fiorina made (and got paid a $40 million severance as "punishment" for running HP into the toilet).

On the other I can't help but think Ellison has a lot of hindsight and no foresight.
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Michael Dell?
 
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