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oplayer is pretty darn good as much as I 've used it.
up until Air Video Player/Server Lite stopped working for me on iOS4.2 beta for iPad i never had a complaint! it plays everything i throw at it, because the computer transcodes on the fly! ive never had a worry in the world. but now it is broken and support wont likely come out until iOS4.2 is properly released. in any case, i recommend this software over ANY "built-in" media app.

Use the lite versions, the free ones (buzz player has one too) and if they suit you go buy the players themselves. Anyone hard up for 2-3 $ shouldn't be here to begin with, they should be out looking for a (better) job. And I am saying this with no intention of offending anyone.
i am having difficulty understanding why you insist on adding these weird replies that are just begging to have somebody reply in an angry manner, its almost like you want somebody to reply?
 
The Free software Foundation has forgotten why people used to write software in the first place or why open source software started out. Sharing code is pointless if end users are not able to use the programs created for the code. Without making it accessible to end users, development becomes just a bunch of meaningless mental masturbation.

What a load of crap. The FSF has always had the same goal, Freedom of the code itself. It's not about the developers, the GPL's goal and Stallman's goal has always been to make sure that the software remains open to everyone. No one can take GPL source code and close it down.

This entails that the end-user needs to be able to ask for the source (it's not obligated to provide it with the binary, a written offer for it is sufficient), modify it, rebuild it and run it themselves on their own accord.

However, the App Store model prevents this. It's as simple as that. One developer who contributed code thinks that his rights are being infringed upon and has written a complaint.

The point is, the App Store prevents users from accessing code on their devices, no matter how you look at it. You need to jailbreak the phone to be able to run your own apps without having to go through Apple's distribution channel. People directly involved in the VLC project, not the FSF, are now arguing that this is contrary to the GPL's intent.

The FSF have been using outdated information. And also brought videolan into this (not just the single developer).

The FSF haven't brought anyone into this. They have simply sided with one developer who of his own accord filed a complaint. How hard is it to understand ?

1 guy decided his code was infringed upon. 1 guy filed a complaint. The FSF just offered their support.

The FSF didn't bring anyone into anything. If you want to blame anybody, blame the initial dev that thought his copyright was being infringed upon.

How is the GPL draconian?

It prevents him from stealing the code of others and closing it down for his own profit. Like Microsoft did with a lot of BSD code that made its way into Windows, with the copyright notice for the Regents of University of Berkeley hidden inside the binaries (ftp.exe being the most glaring example).
 
He's not closed minded only. He's a bona fide troll with the same pattern in almost all his posts and the same modus operandi. And I am sorry you quoted him because I can read him now (I can't if you don't because he's on my ignore list). I am just giving you the heads up here so you can have a more enjoyable forum experience too without getting annoyed by some poster who does this intentionally and routinely and somehow never gets banned.

Sorry you had to see it :) Funny how Apple gets bashed no matter what. While Apple being walled garden is bad, GPL being just as closed and walled is somehow OK.
 
So Apple now is not only stealing other's technology but also involved in copyright infringement. Great. Hopefully SFLC will sue over Safari too.
 
I'm not usually one for conspiracies, but in relation to the person who made the complaint to Apple, this paragraph of their website did ring an alarm bell:

"I am currently working as a Linux kernel and system software engineer for Nokia in Helsinki, Finland. I am also one of the core developers of the VLC media player at the VideoLAN project"

Nice catch, explains why the rest of the VideoLAN developers want him to ****...


So Apple now is not only stealing other's technology but also involved in copyright infringement. Great. Hopefully SFLC will sue over Safari too.

I think you win today's prize for most confused person on the forums. Congratulations. I doubt you understood a single thing you said.
 
It may have already gone I got this when i tried downloading :(
 

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'(iii) You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five
different Accounts at a time on compatible iOS-based devices.'

-> Here I don't understand the "from up to", so I have a very hard time
answering this part.
Does it mean that "whatever license of the Product, you shall always
be allowed to store the Product on at least 5 iOS devices" or
"You are not allowed to store the Products on more than 5 iOS devices" ?

I don't understand why this paragraph is so difficult to understand for someone analysing the documents. It quite clearly states in essence that any iOS device can support five iTunes Store accounts. For example, I have both USA and UK accounts (allowing me to access review copies of software usually provided with gift codes not supported by the UK store); both my iPad and iPhone have these apps, but they're clearly treated differently - when the USA apps need updates, I need to log in with that account.

I don't believe it has any relevance to the discussion at all, tbh. It's not a restriction on the software purchased.
 
The FSF didn't bring anyone into anything. If you want to blame anybody, blame the initial dev that thought his copyright was being infringed upon.

They are using the OLD app store policies to point towards infringement.... They haven't bothered to check out the revised one to see if there is an actual issue. The single developer who complained was using the FSF's last attack on the OLD policy as an example of how his code was being infringed upon. This has caused a HUGE amount of confusion.
 
Read the developers response to FSF.... the only point of "restriction" that he seems unsure about is the "5 Authorized iTunes Devices". Since you can only authorize 5 iTunes instances to use your account the FSF may latch onto that as limiting.

But since the 5 authorized iTunes is not about limiting the application (i.e.: it does not limit the number of computers you can run the app on), but rather, limits the number of computers you can download it from on a single iTunes account and NOTHING limits the number of iTunes accounts you can have, then I don't see any limitation.
 
They are using the OLD app store policies to point towards infringement.... They haven't bothered to check out the revised one to see if there is an actual issue. The single developer who complained was using the FSF's last attack on the OLD policy as an example of how his code was being infringed upon. This has caused a HUGE amount of confusion.

What exactly has changed in the policies ? The initial gripe, if you bothered to read it, was that the software needed to be signed by Apple to run on the iPhone. It has to pass through Apple's distribution channel.

Unless I've been living under a rock, I doubt Apple has changed this. The old, the new policies, nothing addresses this, at least in the eyes of that single developer and the FSF agrees.

Now it's up to the VLC project to deal with this. Either they convince this guy that he's wrong so he pulls his complaint, either they rewrite the code he's contributed in order to remove any and all of his contributions from the iOS version of the software so they can either relicense it or just bless it as is.

Nothing a damn thing the FSF can do or say other than they agree with the lone guy. All the FSF hate here is misplaced and is filled with a lot of ignorance on what is actually the FSF's true goal.

Read the developers response to FSF.... the only point of "restriction" that he seems unsure about is the "5 Authorized iTunes Devices". Since you can only authorize 5 iTunes instances to use your account the FSF may latch onto that as limiting.

But since the 5 authorized iTunes is not about limiting the application (i.e.: it does not limit the number of computers you can run the app on), but rather, limits the number of computers you can download it from on a single iTunes account and NOTHING limits the number of iTunes accounts you can have, then I don't see any limitation.

The limitation is that as a licensee of the GPL'ed software, I can't modify the source code as is and run it on my device without first going through Apple's distribution channel to obtain a signature. It has nothing to do with a limit of the number of devices, but everything with not being able to run code on the iPhone without Apple's blessing (jailbreaking notwithstanding).
 
What exactly has changed in the policies ? The initial gripe, if you bothered to read it, was that the software needed to be signed by Apple to run on the iPhone. It has to pass through Apple's distribution channel.

Unless I've been living under a rock, I doubt Apple has changed this. The old, the new policies, nothing addresses this, at least in the eyes of that single developer and the FSF agrees.

Now it's up to the VLC project to deal with this. Either they convince this guy that he's wrong so he pulls his complaint, either they rewrite the code he's contributed in order to remove any and all of his contributions from the iOS version of the software so they can either relicense it or just bless it as is.

Nothing a damn thing the FSF can do or say other than they agree with the lone guy. All the FSF hate here is misplaced and is filled with a lot of ignorance on what is actually the FSF's true goal.

http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2010-November/077457.html

Read it... It's been updated on the front page.
 
The limitation is that as a licensee of the GPL'ed software, I can't modify the source code as is and run it on my device without first going through Apple's distribution channel to obtain a signature. It has nothing to do with a limit of the number of devices, but everything with not being able to run code on the iPhone without Apple's blessing (jailbreaking notwithstanding).

This isn't true at all.

If you want to, download the source code, and compile it. Yes, you have to buy the tools.. But you can do it without going through the store. And this was NOT the issue. The complaint wasn't anything to do with DRM.
 
This isn't true at all.

If you want to, download the source code, and compile it. Yes, you have to buy the tools.. But you can do it without going through the store. And this was NOT the issue. The complaint wasn't anything to do with DRM.

Uh ? The tools are free. Xcode and the SDK can be downloaded by anyone, free of charge and have a non-restrictive license.

The problem is running the code on your own device. So what if it compiles, I can't exactly run it as-is. That is the complaint the FSF has with the iPhone model if you read the blog post that was linked to earlier :

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/w...phone-dont-mix


That's saying the exact same thing I am, the problem is with the distribution model itself. The fact that you must go through Apple to obtain a valid signature and install the software on your device. The guy is saying the same thing I am, except he's arguing that it doesn't go against the GPL.

He also states right off the bat he hates the App Store models and that his opinion is not fact and should be analysed by the proper authorities to determine if the initial complaint is legit or not.

Again, the Macrumors community paints a story as black and white when it's all just great shades of grey. This is between the VLC people. Let them sort it out themselves. The solutions are laid out on the table.
 
What a load of crap. The FSF has always had the same goal, Freedom of the code itself. It's not about the developers, the GPL's goal and Stallman's goal has always been to make sure that the software remains open to everyone. No one can take GPL source code and close it down.

This entails that the end-user needs to be able to ask for the source (it's not obligated to provide it with the binary, a written offer for it is sufficient), modify it, rebuild it and run it themselves on their own accord.

However, the App Store model prevents this. It's as simple as that. One developer who contributed code thinks that his rights are being infringed upon and has written a complaint.

The point is, the App Store prevents users from accessing code on their devices, no matter how you look at it. You need to jailbreak the phone to be able to run your own apps without having to go through Apple's distribution channel. People directly involved in the VLC project, not the FSF, are now arguing that this is contrary to the GPL's intent.

There would be two questions: What is the legal situation, and what purpose is served by the whole matter?

First, since all iOS apps just like all MacOS X apps are packages, it is very simple to include the complete source code inside the package. Anyone wanting to put GPL'd software on the app store should do that, because then there is no question about delivering source code anymore. I don't know if the VPN guys have done this; if they haven't it is probably a good idea.

Second, you don't have to go through the App Store to install software on an iOS device; you can install on up to 200 devices if you are a registered developer. Yes, it costs $99 per year, but the original developers paid that as well, so it is completely unreasonable to complain about this.

Third, there is a very difficult question what role Apple plays legally in this. If I write an application, put it on the app store, and you buy it, did you buy that app from Apple, or did you buy it from me and Apple was only helping me by supplying bandwidth and handling the monetary side? I'd say it is very similar to buying from eBay.

But the other side is: What purpose does this serve? I can download VPN, install it on an iPad, and get the source code. At that point, I am able to use this source code for creating a different application, just as I can write my own source code to write applications. There are obstacles, obviously. If I want the code to run on an iPad, I need a Mac, need to download XCode, need to learn Objective-C (now I have everything to run the code in the iPad emulator), and pay $99 for a developer license. But there are no obstacles that you don't get elsewhere, you need a development machine, tools, and time. And there is nothing at all stopping you for example from making this code work on Android, or Windows Phone, or a Blackberry, at least nothing from Apple's side.

So my conclusion is: From the "open source" point of view, this is an own goal (which is why apparently most of the VPN developers are annoyed with this. If I was one of those developers, I'd write to this guy asking _exactly_ which lines of code he claims to have copyright on, and then replace them). Clearly, most of the developers _want_ this app in the iOS store. And clearly, people _can_ get the source code and modify it and pass it on. From a legal point of view, it is quite unclear whether this app can be on the app store, but Apple is quite in the clear as long as they remove it as soon as somebody complains. So the only ones that can be legally attacked are the ones who did the actual work. Nice move.
 
The limitation is that as a licensee of the GPL'ed software, I can't modify the source code as is and run it on my device without first going through Apple's distribution channel to obtain a signature. It has nothing to do with a limit of the number of devices, but everything with not being able to run code on the iPhone without Apple's blessing (jailbreaking notwithstanding).

The source code is freely obtainable and can be modified. I don't think the GPL puts a requirement on the distributor to provide you the means to compile and run the object code. I think the GPL (last I recall -- and I may be wrong) simply requires you to provide the source code to it -- its up to you to get it onto your device (I remember that being the case with the firmware on Netgear WiFi routers a while back). Its a fine line since what good is the source code without a way to run the compiled object code.

We'd have to look hard at GPLv2 to see if there is something in there regarding enablement of redistribution. The interesting thing about the Netgear case was that other manufacturers were capable of using their same firmware on their devices if they so desired.

In this case anybody is free to use the VLC source code to create an app for other devices -- which seems to be in the spirit of the GPL. Of course with jailbreaking you can create a modified version to run on your iOS device as well. I wonder if the GPLv2 has language around that.
 
Uh ? The tools are free. Xcode and the SDK can be downloaded by anyone, free of charge and have a non-restrictive license.

The problem is running the code on your own device. So what if it compiles, I can't exactly run it as-is. That is the complaint the FSF has with the iPhone model if you read the blog post that was linked to earlier :

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/w...phone-dont-mix

You need to read the NEW 'rules'.... The long post.
THIS ONE.

http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2010-November/077457.html
 
The source code is freely obtainable and can be modified. I don't think the GPL puts a requirement on the distributor to provide you the means to compile and run the object code. I think the GPL (last I recall -- and I may be wrong) simply requires you to provide the source code to it -- its up to you to get it onto your device (I remember that being the case with the firmware on Linksys WiFi routers a while back). Its a fine line since what good is the source code without a way to run the compiled object code.

We'd have to look hard at GPLv2 to see if there is something in there regarding enablement of redistribution.

 
You need to read the NEW 'rules'.... The long post.
THIS ONE.

http://mailman.videolan.org/pipermail/vlc-devel/2010-November/077457.html

See my updated post.

The source code is freely obtainable and can be modified. I don't think the GPL puts a requirement on the distributor to provide you the means to compile and run the object code. I think the GPL (last I recall -- and I may be wrong) simply requires you to provide the source code to it -- its up to you to get it onto your device (I remember that being the case with the firmware on Linksys WiFi routers a while back). Its a fine line since what good is the source code without a way to run the compiled object code.

We'd have to look hard at GPLv2 to see if there is something in there regarding enablement of redistribution.

Uh ? Had ? Yes, there is such a requirement. Section 3. :

The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for
making modifications to it. For an executable work, complete source
code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any
associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to
control compilation and installation of the executable. However, as a
special exception, the source code distributed need not include
anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary
form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the
operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component
itself accompanies the executable.

Emphasis mine of course.

That's the beauty of the GPL, it doesn't require lawyers to read through.
 
Uh ? The tools are free. Xcode and the SDK can be downloaded by anyone, free of charge and have a non-restrictive license.

The problem is running the code on your own device. So what if it compiles, I can't exactly run it as-is. That is the complaint the FSF has with the iPhone model if you read the blog post that was linked to earlier :

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/w...phone-dont-mix


GPL v2 (which VLC is licensed under) only requires that there are no additional contractual restrictions. (Technical restrictions are only adressed under GPL v3). Apple has apparently addressed this concern since the GNU Go issue. Please read comments from at least two of the core developers at VideoLan who believe this to be the case. I recognize that one of the VLC developers also feels this is not the case.

The FSF comments shows they are more confused than anyone. Ideally everyone would stop all their grandstanding and political games and take 5 minutes to sit together and talk it through.

Since the FSF has very little desire to promote free software, we can not count on them being a useful mediator. (FSF of the past few years only seems interested in hooking the GPL to as many things as possible)


There does not appear to be any incompatibilities between the Apple App store of today and GPL v2. Seems more like a VLC developer who happens to work for Nokia saw an opportunity to stick it to Apple and embarrassed everyone else involved in the project. The FSF rehashed their old arguments without even bothering to check if they had been addressed at any point in the past few months.
 
I was never saying it was black or white. I was only saying the FSF was mistaken. Which was causing confusion. Confusion being the key word here.

:)

And where did you get the FSF is mistaken ? Even the post you refer to claims to have no factual basis, only an opinion. Yet you're sitting here stating as fact that the FSF is mistaken.

Again, let the involved parties sort it out and come to factual conclusions themselves before we start throwing around facts.

Ideally everyone would stop all their grandstanding and political games and take 5 minutes to sit together and talk it through.

In the open source world, mailing lists are where you take 5 minutes to sit together and talk it through. The fact that blogs like Macrumors who really have no clue about how the open source world does thing, out in the open, pick up on this stuff and paint it as some kind of epic struggle doesn't really help the already open source challenged Apple community in getting a proper idea of what is really going.
 
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