Law Enforcement Reportedly Looking Into Circumstances of Lost Next-Generation iPhone

[kironin]

The act of him not doing enough to return the device and then selling it makes it theft. Not that he found the iPhone, the fact that he didn't do much really to return it and then sells it makes it theft.

Problem with that. Apple employee has no means of getting it back. Founder did not leave it with the bar management or did not tell bar management. Founder did not turn it into the police station. Founder called CS department who would have no idea what to do. Founder then sold device to Giz. Apple Employee did not know the person who found it. So how was the Apple Employee supposed to go back and get it back again?

good point, if you found someone's phone or wallet at a bar, why would you want to bother with it. Wouldn't the first normally honest impulse be to turn it over to the bar management for their lost and found? It can't be the first thing of value someone has left accidentally at that bar.

Forget that it's a iphone prototype, just say it is someone's run of the mill phone. Why would you take it from the bar where it is likely they would come back looking for it?

 

[.Andy]

The state of California states that picking up a phone that doesn't belong to you is theft.

So if the individual picked up the phone and gave it to the bar owner it still would have been theft?

 

[thatrandomguy]

After some debate yesterday with other people here whether such a move could be legal (I'm not a lawyer, which is why I argued it could be unethical but legal)...

Gizmodo appears to have tried covering their asses, and they did a pretty good job, except their argument for buying is "fakes are common, we didn't know if it was Powell's, or if it belonged to someone else, etc..."

That falls apart under the penal code because it holds the seller responsible to return it.

Gizmodo KNEW that the seller didn't legally own the phone, and therefore, knowingly bought stolen property.

There's no legal provision for "Buying it to return to the owner ASAP", it's just stolen.

And I say this as a PC user that doesn't like the iPhone... (I enjoy my iPod Touch, however).

 

[johnqh]

i disagree

i believe most people wouldnt even go that far as what that guy did

heck all you need to do is look at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20078671/
and corresponding video
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/dateline-takes-on-ipod-thieves/688cses
A non attended ipod/iphone will get taken right away

Or how about this?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleytalong/iphone-glued-to-sidewalk-prank-hpz

Fact is that most would NOT ask for the original owner

Sad to say that an individual who does seek out the rightful owner is a rare thing these days

So? That doesn't make it legal.

That only means Gizmodo is stupid to buy a stolen phone and make it public.

 

[dukebound85]

So? That doesn't make it legal.

I never said it did

Merely commenting on human nature where the other poster implied people would do the right thing

Most people wouldn't

 

[LagunaSol]

So if the individual picked up the phone and gave it to the bar owner it still would have been theft?

How about "picking up the phone, walking out the door with it, identifying the name of the owner, yet selling it to someone else anyway" is theft.

 

[johnqh]

Best advice for Apple from me is to **** about this and surprise us with something new on the official launch with an added feature or 2.

Oh, if the fanboys didn't notice, this phone is hardly a breakthrough device, nor was anybody surprised by its features.

It is a criminal manner, so it is not up to Apple now.

 

[.Andy]

How about "picking up the phone, walking out the door with it, identifying the name of the owner, yet selling it to someone else anyway" is theft.

No calm down. Mikeapple claimed this which is what I was clearly replying to;

The state of California states that picking up a phone that doesn't belong to you is theft.

Is this actually the law that the physical act of picking up a phone that isn't yours is theft? Seems pretty broad and would "legally" make criminals of just about anyone.

 

[*LTD*]

Loving some of the legalese in here. No, I don't know any better myself but at least I don't posture as otherwise.



'Now Mrs Simpson don't you worry. I watched an episode of Matlock in a bar last night. The sound wasn't on but I think I got the gist of it...'

Classic! I love Lionel Hutz!

 

[calderone]

I never said it did

Merely commenting on human nature where the other poster implied people would do the right thing

Most people wouldn't

What is this "most?"

 

[MacSlut]

this is a perfect case of perfectly waste of court time.

the phone was lost, not stolen.

No, it was stolen. Gizmodo knowingly purchased stolen goods. Look up California Penal Code Sections 496 and 485. Look up California Civil Code 2080.

This is exactly why they should be prosecuted. People think "finders keepers" is the law, but it's not. Ordinarily I would suggest going lightly, giving a warning etc..., but these guys were total douchebags in releasing the engineers name and profile.

By prosecuting the person who stole the phone and prosecuting the folks at Gizmodo who knowingly purchased the stolen phone, in this case you're given justice to the douchebags and setting an example. I live in the area, and I hope people learn from the example that "finders keepers" is not the law.

 

[johnqh]

I never said it did

Merely commenting on human nature where the other poster implied people would do the right thing

Most people wouldn't

We really don't know, because the video does not show the people who walked by and ignored it.

And some people who pick it up have the intention to turn it in to the store manager.

If you see an un-attended iPhone, you would pick it up (everyone would). However, that does not indicate your next intension.

 

[HyperZboy]

It is a criminal manner, so it is not up to Apple now.

And a complete waste of taxpayer dollars too.

Isn't "KALI - FORNYA" broke?

LOL

 

[nsayer]

Please explain to me how someone losing an item, another finding it equates to theft.

Ok. This happened in California. California has laws. One of those laws says that if you find something valuable, you have a duty to return it to its owner. The guy who found the phone didn't take any steps that a reasonable person under the circumstances would have taken were they truly interested in getting the phone back to its rightful owner. Instead, they sold the phone to someone else for 5 large. That's a felony.

 

[Ademius]

Apple stands much more to gain from a civil suit than criminal prosecution, if they really want to retaliate against the site. While the rumour community almost entirely depends on leaks, most are far from this thorough. Leaks of this magnitude probably does more harm than good by halting sales rather than build up hype and speculations the months before the official announcement.

Other than that, the ethics of how Gizmodo came into possession of the prototype also seems questionable. I do hope that Apple files a civil suit, if for no other reason than a deterrent. Mostly, the guy who found it selling something that clearly does not belong to him is the most disturbing part of the story.

 

[nsayer]

Would it be right for me to say [...] that all women can't drive and are idiots on the road?

Um, yeah, pretty much.

 

[Maserati7200]

From the same crowd that endlessly speculates & breaks down every supposed Best Buy inventory screen shot & NOW you are mad someone gave you a legit sneak peek two months early???? Give it a rest people. The engineer is a Apple employee= HE IS APPLE. APPLE LOST THE PHONE. APPLE IGNORED MULTIPLE REQUESTS TO RETURN THE DEVICE. APPLE NEEDS TO SHUT UP & GO BACK TO COUNTING THEIR MONEY.

Well said. However, I don't like that gizmido named the employee who lost it. That was just cruel and uncalled for. This man probably won't be able to get far with his career now if he wanted to switch companies.

 

[LagunaSol]

Is this actually the law that the physical act of picking up a phone that isn't yours is theft? Seems pretty broad and would "legally" make criminals of just about anyone.

Common sense would say there is more to the law than what he spelled out.

 

[HyperZboy]

Once LENO and LETTERMAN have gotten a hold of it, it's in the court of public opinion, not the system of justice.

That's why all these comments make me laugh my ass off.

It's not in Apple's best interest to do anything but get the phone back and continue to keep quiet.

They've already gotten all the FREE PR they could have ever asked for and more than even Apple could have afforded to PAY FOR!!

DUH!​

But yes, I do feel sorry for the people being named, but since they have, people will know now if Apple took action against them at least. The Apple employee is probably the most hurt person here.

I doubt anything will happen to anyone else, although Gizmodo is on shaky ground for sure.

 

[convergent]

There is a lot of debate here about the definition of "stolen". I've listened to a couple of people explain this thing from the context of California law, and from what I can gather, it makes no difference whether it was stolen or not. In California, Gizmodo is guilty of the same offense here because they clearly knew that the item didn't belong to the person they were dealing with, and its equally illegal in California to deal with something that is lost or stolen. The finder also didn't turn it over to the bar owner, which is what any ethical person would have done. The bar owner reported that he was contacted numerous times by the Apple engineer asking if someone had found it, and the finder never ever mentioned it to the bar owner. So the finder is guilty and so is Gizmodo. I doubt the head of a gadget blog will be able to argue that they a) thought this person legitimately owned and could sell an Apple prototype, and b) that they were selling it for $5K and it was just an average device that anyone could buy. What do you think is going to happen if this goes unpunished? No company is going to be safe if people can easily get $5K for a prototype. Just to qualify the seriousness of trade secret crimes, I was working as a consultant a few years back and one of the subcontractors for my client got disgruntled with his employer and faxed the blueprints to the machine he was working on to the client's two biggest competitors. He was facing 75 years in prison for that crime. All of these people should have the book thrown at them for their part in this.

 

[quagmire]

Um, yeah, pretty much.

Haha.

I was expecting that......



But, my point still stands.

It isn't right to say Americans are stupid because of one Americans stupidity, it isn't right to say Texans are rednecks because of a few people, etc.

 

[*LTD*]

Oh c'mon fanboys, get back in the REAL WORLD!​

You mean theft is legal in the "real world"?

With LENO and LETTERMAN all making fun of this whole ordeal and Apple, if Apple and Steve Jobs sue either Gizmodo or fire the employee or go after the poor but now rich idiot who found the phone, guess who will look bad?

Leno and letterman are jokers. That's their job. No one off the tech fan sites (as in, the "real world") will give a damn, because no one really cares if Apple slaps down an insignificant tech blog on the ass-end of the net. Just like they didn't give a damn (or even notice) when Apple shut down ThinkSecret. You know what people *do* care about? More cool Apple gear.

Of course no fanboys will get anything I just typed and will cite legal precedents, blah blah blah, like anyone gives a rats ass.

Of course not. Because it's nonsense.

Yep, all that legal "blah blah" is meaningless. LOL

Best advice for Apple from me is to ****

Do you think it's in Apple's interest to follow your "advice"? Have they been following it up until now? How's *not* following your advice working out for them?

Oh, if the fanboys didn't notice, this phone is hardly a breakthrough device, nor was anybody surprised by its features.

Apple's already done the whole "breakthrough" phone thing. They're busy with the "breakthrough computer" now. Have you got yours yet?

 

[johnqh]

And a complete waste of taxpayer dollars too.

Isn't "KALI - FORNYA" broke?

LOL

Actually, from California point of view, it absolutely makes sense to pursue the case to protect one of the most valuable employer and tax payer in the state.

Damage to Apple means damage to the state. Let's calculate

Assume the damage to Apple is 10,000 phones in sales (my low estimate). Gross margin at 50%, selling price at $500 each (unsubsidized). That's $5 million damage to Apple in sales, $2.5 million lost income.

California business income tax rate is about 10%. So the state loses about 250K in income tax collection.

If 10% of the sales happen in California, that's about anothing 50K lost sales tax collection.

Total damage to the state: 300K.
Total damage to IRS: 600K (Apple's federal corporation income tax is probably around 25%)

You bet the state should pursue the case.

 

[dukebound85]

Actually, from California point of view, it absolutely makes sense to pursue the case to protect one of the most valuable employer and tax payer in the state.

Damage to Apple means damage to the state. Let's calculate

Assume the damage to Apple is 10,000 phones (my low estimate). Gross margin at 50%, selling price at $500 each (unsubsidized). That's $5 million damage to Apple in sales, $2.5 million lost income.

California business income tax rate is about 10%. So the state loses about 250K in income tax collection.

If 10% of the sales happen in California, that's about anothing 50K lost sales tax collection.

Total damage to the state: 300K.
Total damage to IRS: 600K (Apple's corporation income tax is probably around 25%)

You bet the state should pursue the case.

Where are you getting those numbers?

 

[StyxMaker]

Ah jeez. Unless it was actually pick-pocketed, Apple should not press charges on this. Not good PR.

I wonder what they'll do.

In a criminal case the victim does not 'press charges' the DA investigates and decides if charges are appropriate.