Lawsuit Alleges Apple Broke FaceTime on iOS 6 to Force iOS 7 Upgrades, Save Money

[smacrumon]

There's a solution: Update to a newer version of iOS.

This is starting to sound like the DOS vs Windows upgrade all over again.

Customers should not need to update if they do not wish. Customers should also not expect Apple to insert buggy virus code into the OS that kills FaceTime because of a sketchy financial arrangements.
You should read the MacRumors article to begin with. It's quite damning. Apple has clearly engaged in completely unconscionable conduct.

 

[Vorkeyjones]

I think what concerns me most is have they done a move like this since that time? Are there software tweaks that break things intentionally now? Tin foil hat aside and conspiracy theorists have arsenal now.

Like how they ruined the music app for all people not using Apple Music, or how they harass people with update messages every time they unlock their phone just to get everyone on the latest iOS.

Apple is a pretty slimy company these days.

 

[mtcowdog]

IDK. Software has to update to be relevant and secure. iOS is also free. Want to stay in the dark ages, the flip phone is your best friend. Otherwise, if we share a network and you want to stay in the past, uh, no.

 

[DaveN]

Where is the smoking gun where Apple admits that the bug was intentional? I didn't see any.

 

[miniyou64]

Clearly the most absurd statement I've read in a very long time. This is "alternative facts" carried to an unbelievable extreme. If the software is so bad, why do you still have any apple products? Hypocrisy?

Just because its better than the competition doesn't make it as good as it used to be. Apple software is far less usable and has far more bugs since 2012.

 

[C DM]

Customers should not need to update if they do not wish. Customers should also not expect Apple to insert buggy virus code into the OS that kills FaceTime because of a sketchy financial arrangements.
You should read the MacRumors article to begin with. It's quite damning. Apple has clearly engaged in completely unconscionable conduct.

Assuming the implications hold up.

 

[Defthand]

How is this any different from what happens in tech all the time, for instance when Microsoft stopping support for Win XP and then something probably breaking? What damages can be proven if iOS7 is free?

Ending support for a feature and crippling a feature are unlike. It's not like FaceTime was retired altogether. The feature was an advertised benefit of owning the phone. The phone cost money—money that the Plaintiff will have to spend again to regain the feature without compromising hardware performance.

Software advancements obsolete hardware too soon as it is. However, this wasn't a matter of FaceTime improving or evolving. It was a benefit for Apple alone.

 

[idunn]

The technical term for this is fraud.

If proven in a court of law, particularly if well publicized, then a serious blight on Apple's reputation. *

Beyond that, losing this case would allow Apple and other tech companies less leeway in software upgrades, etc., lest being accused of intentionally trying to upsell their customers by obsoleting otherwise serviceable hardware and/or software.



* Already tragically besmirched through abuse and neglect of the Macintosh franchise.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Thanks for talking about off topic material such as encryption and MISSING THE ISSUE of Apple inserting code into iOS 6 designed to BREAK FACETIME. That's what the article is about. That's what the documents allege. People suspected it, now we have the evidence to back up the hunch.
Inserting code into software that kills features is completely damaging property. We call this viruses, malware, ransomware etc. CUSTOMERS bought iPhone iPad with iOS 6 because it has FaceTime. CUSTOMERS should expect what they bought should continue to work whether or not they upgrade. That's simple to understand.
Customers, paying customers, had the choice of staying on iOS 6 and have Apple kill one of the main features, FaceTime, or update to iOS 7 and have the update kill the usability of the device by slowing it down, causing jittery performance, app crashes and incompatibility etc.
Plain and simple, Apple effectively inserted a virus code into iOS 6 designed to kill FaceTime. It might not have affected you, but it affected millions of other users.
I'm shocked and disappointed with Apple. An interesting legal case to be following. I hope the judgement is extremely impactful so that this kind of thing doesn't occur ever again.

If I break my own stuff, it's not vandalism. If I take money out of my own bank account, it's not theft.

Who owns FaceTime? Apple. Apple created it, Apple owns it, Apple could "break" it.

Only Apple didn't "break it" - they changed the technology used to deliver the FaceTime service. The service continued for everyone who was willing to update their OS, at no charge. That's pretty much business as usual in the tech field. "You have to upgrade your version of Adobe Flash to view videos on this web site."

And talk about overly-dramatic... was FaceTime one of iOS 6's "main features?" Really? How many bought an iPad or iPhone with iOS 6 ONLY because it had FaceTime? Didn't previous versions of iPhone and iPad also have FaceTime? FaceTime was introduced on iPhone 4, running iOS 4. By the time iOS 6 had come along, the only "news" was that FaceTime would now work over cellular data networks as well as wifi. If we can trust Wikipedia, FaceTime barely made it to the list of significant iOS 6 features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_6

 

[cigar]

Customers should not need to update if they do not wish. Customers should also not expect Apple to insert buggy virus code into the OS that kills FaceTime because of a sketchy financial arrangements.
You should read the MacRumors article to begin with. It's quite damning. Apple has clearly engaged in completely unconscionable conduct.

point on that is called windows trending which apple is doing as we speak i have wrote my disapproval to the worst CEO in USA tim cook and nothing but him throwing away my letter's lol.... what a joke....

 

[farewelwilliams]

They (allegedly) crippled software that was working fine to force people to upgrade. You don't see anything wrong with that?

i don't think Apple did it "intentionally". it's more like apple screwed up but had no intentions of supporting old users. remember how the Mac App Store certs expired and created headaches for every single Mac user?

 

[vpn]

Still using ios 6, just switch to skype for video call.

 

[Tech198]

I actually would believe this lawsuit....

The same thing happens when u go to Live chat, any times do u need help and the very first thing an Apple tech tells your is, "upgrade the OS", then we will sort out your issue.. 80%of the time.. as that solves everything more likely...

Plus, it gets you on the latest OS... so why wouldn't Apple make users upgrade just to use Facetime in this case.

Apple's goal is to keep new users happy and up-to-date, not to leave a longer trail of old users who want problems fixed on their OS. And I would gather Apple will do anything to do it. "accidental" or "by force"

The ways of the limited eco-system

 

[Septembersrain]

Like what? Give some examples.

Like how people are screaming about the phone battery dying at 30%. Like the people who say their device has slowed to an almost unusable state.

They'll see this and think there is indeed planned obsolence. I'm not saying there is but in this case, it pushed people into a new OS. Some might construe that as they'd be willing to push people into what they want them in for profit.

 

[5105973]

there are too many holes in these arguments. Majority "older" devices at the time were perfectly capable of running iOS7. My 4 ran it fine...but yes, eventually old devices will slow down. that is technology. people experiencing bugginess and whatnot likely had other issues compounding the problem and were unwilling to restore their device. I met many people in my years at the Genius Bar who came in saying "EVER SINCE I UPDATED TO IOS 7 MY PHONE IS SLOW. APPLE DOES THIS ON PURPOSE TO FORCE US TO UPDATE." then i'd look at their phone at they have an 8 or 16gb model, with almost NO free space, tons of software crashes logged in diagnostics, using Facebook constantly all day. Restoring their device and removing some of the crap from it would have fixed their issues but they'd decide

customer: "no i don't want to lose all of my photos and texts."
me: "ok so run an iCloud backup"
customer: "no i don't want to pay $3 a month" (mind you they are holding a $5 starbucks cup at the time)
me: "ok then import your photos to a computer and restore from iTunes"
customer: "my PC is old and slow and i don't want to deal with it"
me "ooookkk....."

you give people the options and they don't want to do it out of laziness. because they are not educated about the product

I won't argue with what you said as I'm sure you're quite correct in your observations about your customers. That must have been an extremely trying job at times requiring incredible amounts of patience and tolerance I don't even possess as a mother sometimes. I can't begin to imagine what your workdays were like, even though I also worked with the public in various industries.

The point still remains that the straw that broke the camel's back for some customers, or at least the ones who think they have a claim in the lawsuit, was the allegedly intentional breaking of FaceTime. I'm just discussing what's in the article. And my speculations, as I state as the discussion progresses, are mere conjecture on my part. There is a lot I don't know about the law as it pertains to this proposed lawsuit and a lot I can't accurately extrapolate about Apple's business prospects in general. I can only give my reactions as a customer and a reader of this snapshot of Apple's long business history and extrapolate a little bit from THAT. That's about it. I do appreciate corrections on my errors and additional insights such as you've provided.
[doublepost=1486170843][/doublepost]

"Less jaded", ha. It happened a 2.5 years ago. Either rose tinted glasses or new to Apple. I've used Apple (and Microsoft, Linux - still do) for decades and they all have the same caveat "be wary of upgrades". Not everyone will affect all users equally, as use cases vary. But upgrading software can always bring negative results, always has, pretty much always will.



How is it crappy? Read the article. $50m a year in fees. Eventually that would come down on the users. Things aren't free. An in-house solution was developed to alleviate that cost. It would've been stupid to continue paying, how do you justify a cost that can be taken care of?



Yes, the way to build a successful brand that prides itself on long lasting electronics is to make them work worse on purpose. This comes up all the time. What we do know is features are added and they strain older hardware. But it's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. If no updates were given you get uproar. If updates are given with features missing you get uproar. One thing I have noticed is that the last few generations of SoCs are so powerful that newer software seems to run better for longer. Less of the upgrade slowness that can creep in on lowered powered devices from early iOS models.

The situation wasn't great though and Apple could've handled it better. Perhaps they could've continued paying the Akamai relay fees for those on iOS 6, as they would've reduced rapidly as the majority of users got on board with iOS 7. However history has trained me to understand that Apple can be pretty ruthless with legacy technologies (I noticed recently that Apps may need to be updated soon to support 64-bit, for example: https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/...oon-end-support-for-unmaintained-32-bit-apps/).

But we know, and if people don't they should that being within the walled garden of Apple brings positives and negatives such as this. Ultimately you play by Apples rules. If you want freedom, I would suggest another brand as the strategy has worked well for Apple and I don't see them changing course.



I imagine there is a problem with your mini 4. I still use an iPhone 6 with the same A8 SoC as your mini 4 (albeit the version in my iPhone is slightly slower clocked and has half the RAM). My iPhone still performs pretty well, definitely isn't as slick like my wife's 6s but the difference is marginal. If your mini 4 is choking I imagine other issues. As my iPhone 6 hasn't choked - we obviously visit different sites - so I'm happy to try an example link if you provide one and will report back.

Comparing a competitor device that slows after months versus a 4 year old 2nd Gen iPad mini is a bit of a stretch. Of course the mini is no longer going to fly. I notice the same slower response on my parents iPad 2 - but they haven't complained yet so I'm happy to let them use it for now. Your mini 4 should be performing better tho, I'd recommend a back & restore to start.

Not new to Apple (hubby and I go back to Apple IIe and I had most of the iPhones but was not on forums). But I don't remember the forums being quite so down on Apple when I started here when I got an iPhone 6Plus. Jeez, when was that? I can't see my start date in this window.

I say "crappy" and shady and you say "ruthless" but I did say I could understand why Apple did what they did. I am just saying they now risk a perception problem or rather, this revelation can feed into the conspiracy theories that float around in Apple discussions about Apple engineering planned obsolescence in such a crafty way.

I did jump over the walled garden. I have an HTC 10 and the somewhat redundant pairing of an S7 and S7 Edge. I prefer my iPhone 7 Plus, sad to say. Lol, I was hoping to like my Android alternatives much better so I could be really immature and thumb my nose at Apple for taking away my headphone jack. And maybe if I still had my Note 7 I might. Maybe. But there were some key areas my iPhone is stronger in vs the phones I do have in my possession. Key for me, not anybody else so I'm not going into that here.

Yeah I have to do some more work in the mini 4 and see what's up. But I compared it to Samsung phones because people say those need troubleshooting to unclog slowdowns over time, too. I haven't run across that myself, yet except maybe on Apple Music which is starting to lag on my Samsungs running Marshmallow, but my husband says he has on his.

You've made good counterpoints to my post. Thanks!
[doublepost=1486170924][/doublepost]

Well, it's still kind of speculation based on what was put in the lawsuit. What we don't know are all the communications that tell a different story that doesn't support the lawsuit that were intentionally not inserted as they would weaken the lawsuit. We're not looking at some investigative journalism here. We're looking at someone who wants a payday - probably even after the statute of limitations. They're only going to characterize the facts in the way that shows support for their lawsuit.

Very good point. I didn't think about that.
[doublepost=1486171356][/doublepost]

Bugs happen. Deprecated features happen. Apple deprecated FaceTime on iOS 6 after over 80% of users had switched. Apple can't be expected to support every stinking feature of every version of iOS forever. PLUS FaceTime isn't a 'core feature' of the OS.

An update to Windows 7 broke parts of an older version of Office. Yeah, the clients I had bitched about it, but they upgraded.

I can see their point, but damn, the MAJORITY of users had moved on by then. If they had to support that feature until they reached 100%, they would be paying cash for a long time. Hell, I heard of someone that was pissed because their iPhone 1 wasn't supported any longer. The ORIGINAL iPHONE! Move on people...

Lol, I love your turn of phrase! It's very grumpy and I approve.

I think they should have just outright pulled the plug. The way they did it, or the way this article depicts them doing it, is they undermined their own software and then they went back and fixed it anyway for the people who were still on iOS 6. So they were still stuck paying Akamai anyway. Anyway, talk about damned if you do and damned if you don't. I admit to being confused about why they would break it and then fix it. I suppose they made a "course adjustment" and assumed that the introduction of the bug would never come to light. Or since you used the term "deprecate" then am I to take it that this is actually a standard practice?

PS does anyone know how I can avoid having so many of my replies to different people strung together into one giant wall of text? This is atrocious. I'm just trying to catch up on replies, not annoy the community. My apologies for this.

 

[techfreak23]

I'm pretty sure that Apple states in its TOS, much like multiplayer video games, that service can be terminated at any given time. You can't really expect a company to continue support for software that's almost 5 years old ESPECIALLY when licensing deals would add to the decision to cut that software off. This lawsuit will go nowhere.

 

[5105973]

You have to prove that, not merely allege it. Proceed.
Certificates expire. What was Apple's nefarious motivation for having to re-issue hundreds of PKG installers?

I am reacting to what was stated in the article. I'm not the journalist. Certificates do expire but according to the article Apple introduced a bug to make them do so prematurely. I already stated and the article also alludes to their motivation for doing this.

 

[C DM]

I'm pretty sure that Apple states in its TOS, much like multiplayer video games, that service can be terminated at any given time. You can't really expect a company to continue support for software that's almost 5 years old ESPECIALLY when licensing deals would add to the decision to cut that software off. This lawsuit will go nowhere.

Seems like the implication here is that something somewhat different happened.

 

[5105973]

Where is your proof? Or do you just repeat whatever absurdity you hear? If apple is so bad, how can you continue to use apple products? Isn't it time for you to move over to windows, please.
[doublepost=1486149118][/doublepost]

So you believe everything you read without confirmation? How very sad.

For technical information which I don't have a formal educational background in, yes, I rely heavily on articles like this one and reactions from more expert members of the community to clarify and correct misperceptions. Sometimes I ask my husband to clear things up for me. But these days his work is pretty consuming and talking about technology is not as fun for him anymore as it's "talking shop" when he'd rather talk about music or art or politics with me. So I save my tech oriented conversations for this forum.

I think you will find my reactions to other counterpoints presented to my post were very positive as they were polite and largely non confrontational attempts at discussion from other forum members. For other subjects I have better grounding in, no, I don't need to rely on others so much.

I think you missed several portions of my posts on this thread in which I state quite clearly that I understand why Apple would do what they are said to have done. I just think it could reflect badly on them, and I stated clearly why I thought so. I also stated that no, it would not stop me in particular from buying Apple products as I personally haven't run into anything to indicate they've done anything to cripple my devices. I have one iPad mini 4 giving me a bit of a bother and I could read something like this and jump into conspiracy mode. I say quite clearly however, that I won't. I am going to troubleshoot the thing.

I don't need to move over to Windows because I already have a Windows desktop and a Surface. I have Android phones, too. I try and get somewhat fluent with all of the platforms. I have met some great people here on MacRumors who have helped me get my bearings with different aspects of different operating systems.

I seem to have incurred your displeasure and I do regret that. I don't see what is absurd about the article or my posts, but other members have kindly given me counterpoints to help me see things from other viewpoints. If you also wish to, I'm open to reading what you have to write about it.

 

[617660]

I'm pretty sure that Apple states in its TOS, much like multiplayer video games, that service can be terminated at any given time. You can't really expect a company to continue support for software that's almost 5 years old ESPECIALLY when licensing deals would add to the decision to cut that software off. This lawsuit will go nowhere.

You seem to think that TOG is the end-all be-all solution to any legal issue consumer may bring up.

We are not expecting Apple to support a software for 5 years, even though microsoft does that (so it's not unheard of), but we expect Apple NOT to break the software. The least they can do.

 

[MadeMyDay]

I owned the original iPhone. Perhaps I should sue Apple for forcing me to upgrade to a newer model. SMH

 

[C DM]

I owned the original iPhone. Perhaps I should sue Apple for forcing me to upgrade to a newer model. SMH

Yes, because that somehow has anything to do with what this is about.

 

[smacrumon]

If I break my own stuff, it's not vandalism. If I take money out of my own bank account, it's not theft.

Who owns FaceTime? Apple. Apple created it, Apple owns it, Apple could "break" it.

Only Apple didn't "break it" - they changed the technology used to deliver the FaceTime service. The service continued for everyone who was willing to update their OS, at no charge. That's pretty much business as usual in the tech field. "You have to upgrade your version of Adobe Flash to view videos on this web site."

And talk about overly-dramatic... was FaceTime one of iOS 6's "main features?" Really? How many bought an iPad or iPhone with iOS 6 ONLY because it had FaceTime? Didn't previous versions of iPhone and iPad also have FaceTime? FaceTime was introduced on iPhone 4, running iOS 4. By the time iOS 6 had come along, the only "news" was that FaceTime would now work over cellular data networks as well as wifi. If we can trust Wikipedia, FaceTime barely made it to the list of significant iOS 6 features https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_6

You might like to read the article again. A bug written by Apple meant staying on iOS 6 killed FaceTime, while moving to iOS 7 killed usability forcing upgrades.

 

[cosmichobo]

I can appreciate people being annoyed about this - Feature on my device I paid a lot of money for X months/years ago no longer works; proof that reason was a fiscal one.

But... Should I also sue Nintendo because they no longer support Mario Kart Wii? That damn pissed me off when they stopped running the online servers! However, I didn't go to a lawyer...

 

[C DM]

I can appreciate people being annoyed about this - Feature on my device I paid a lot of money for X months/years ago no longer works; proof that reason was a fiscal one.

But... Should I also sue Nintendo because they no longer support Mario Kart Wii? That damn pissed me off when they stopped running the online servers! However, I didn't go to a lawyer...

If to get it working they told you to download an update that you otherwise didn't care for which got it working but also made the whole system perform noticeably slower/worse with other changes to it that you didn't care for which in turn pushed you to make a decision to buy a newer system to get that better experience back which you wouldn't have decided to do had you not upgraded the older system just to get something working that was working fine all along and was only broken basically just because?