Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed

[littyboy]

The judge is an ass.

The bag searches should be done on Apple's time. Apple is in the wrong on this matter. I can only presume that the company is so hard up for money that it desperately needs to save money to pay for those 5400rpm iMacs.

Tim Cook should think different and lead the way by paying his employees fairly.

You are NOT required to bring a bag, so why would it be on Apple's time?

 

[pdqgp]

naive as in they are not currently maximising their shareholders return? is that what you are claiming?

Naive if you think legal costs are simply absorbed.

and again you ignore your own post. i would too if i you.

feel free to continue the discussion around my posts if you'd like. you're the one clearly ignoring existing labor laws, case law and supporting frivolous lawsuits vs suggesting labor negotiations that should be occurring here.

 

[LordVic]

Sounds like you not only haven't worked retail for the past several decades (if at all), but also didn't pay attention when the Supreme Court addressed this very issue recently as well and UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that people aren't entitled to get paid for this time.



So Apple's a bad retailer for using the same procedures in their stores that every other retailer does?



So you want the store to pay your daughter more than the others who work there because she made plans after work which have absolutely nothing to do with the store's function or her job.

Why does your kid deserve more money because she chose to bring a personal bag into a retail workplace? Is she a princess or somehow special? Should everyone else ALSO stay on the clock and be forced to hang out to accommodate your daughter's time waiting because SHE decided that she just HAD to bring in her bag to accommodate HER plans?

Or even worse, why should your daughter basically get to stop working before the others on the shift and NOT do the work the entire time she is scheduled? Why should everyone else have to work their shifts end-to-end while your kid gets to stand in a line and NOT work for the 15-20 minutes? Oh yeah. Because it's a party or something and it's just that important.

No. You can either deal with it, or get another job. Same as everyone else in that industry. You don't need to bring that purse to work. Use your pocket, and if it's too much to handle, get a different job.

Just because this has become the expected, and legal norm pushed down by corporate america, does not mean it's morally right.

The reason the judge gave is more an indictment that the legal system, and himself have very little in common with most of the working class.

Or bring their lunch in a brown bag or plastic sack that they either throw away or crumble into a small wad into their pocket? Been there, done that, problem solved.

Let's see - you're forced to change into a required uniform on your own time, and complain about the US forcing unpaid overtime? Pot, meet kettle.

a combination of ignorance and arrogant in 2 sentences.

Ever try going to work on a busy crowded subway/ commuter train for an hour or two each way while carrying a little brown paper bag? and thats it? its unreasonable expectation and completely asinine to tell anyone else that is what they should be doing.


And for changing / dressing on 'his own time'. he can change entirely within his own time frame. He controls how long / short it takes him to change. it could take him secods to minutes tops and he's entirely the dictator of that time.

In the bag check, the bag checks were on the Managers time frame. People would have to wait for manager to be free, would have to wait for others to be checked. Sometimes, reported of up to half hour or more of time where the employee has had to wait around. This should be "on the clock" since he's still waiting at the employers discretion.

 

[numlock]

Naive if you think legal costs are simply absorbed.



feel free to continue the discussion around my posts if you'd like. you're the one clearly ignoring existing labor laws, case law and supporting frivolous lawsuits vs suggesting labor negotiations that should be occurring here.

so i take it you believe they are not maximising their shareholders return now? im sorry that is the only way i can understand your comment.

i actually was quite clear when i said they took those costs (like any other) into consideration and im sure they have decently good projections on what their legal fees will be.

you are the one that is ignoring your own post which i originally quoted. this treatment of workers wont be any worse if labor laws were to change and if courts were to change their opinion.

if they werent so childish i would report your thinly veiled personal attacks.

 

[Gasu E.]

A good judge would deliver the right verdict, not just uphold a law without thinking first to see if said law is corrupt or not. Not every law in the nation that passed parliament is in the best interests of the nation. Even in Australia we have had a few laws pass our state parmiament here in Queensland that will severely hurt the business confidence and certain industries bottom line.

The Queensland Parliament is irrelevant when discussing a US case. As was noted in the article, the US Supreme Court has already ruled on this type of situation, and set a precedent. Maybe you don't understand judicial precedence, or maybe it doesn't apply in Australia (which is doubtful, or your court system would be a free-for-all). But in the US it is paramount, thankfully.

 

[avanpelt]

If word got out that you could bring a bag in and automatically get paid extra while you waited for your employer to search the bag, everyone who didn't have somewhere to be right after work would start bringing bags in just to get a little more money for each shift.

 

[numlock]

You are NOT required to bring a bag, so why would it be on Apple's time?

the obvious reason would be that it would create a huge incentive for the companies to send their employees on their way home as soon as possible which would mean no issue at all.

 

[LordVic]

Au contraire, it is not a straw man argument at all.

In the first case, according to the judge, an Apple employee can avoid being mugged for his time if he abstains from a certain action, namely by not taking a bag to work.

I can likewise avoid a street mugging of my property by not leaving my house.

Following either route in the above examples would be an infringement of liberties.

Apple should have no expectation that an employee will be a thief. Likewise, I have no expectation that I'm going to get mugged tomorrow. Apple should be grown up about this and deal with matters of theft if and when they arise, rather than treat every employee as a potential thief.

Apple and the Judge were outright victim blaming.

lets call it for what it is. "you dont want us to steal your time, don't have a bag"
No justification truly as to WHY, or HOW, just "it's the bag carriers fault"

it's actually pretty insulting when you look at it from this perspective isn't it

 

[C DM]

That is like micromanaging... from the employees side.

The funny thing is that if the employees win the case, they would have received like 20 cents each, the lawyers would keep the rest. I mean... this is just business for the lawyers, they saw an opportunity there.

Likely wasn't about that as many class action lawsuits aren't but about bringing attention to something so that something is hopefully done about it.

 

[pdqgp]

so i take it you believe they are not maximising their shareholders return now? im sorry that is the only way i can understand your comment.

No, I believe they will absolutely adjust to account for the cost of litigation. They won't simply pull that out of profits and not take it back in.

this treatment of workers wont be any worse if labor laws were to change and if courts were to change their opinion.

good thing the courts spoke out here yet again and said they aren't changing their opinion then.

 

[C DM]

If word got out that you could bring a bag in and automatically get paid extra while you waited for your employer to search the bag, everyone who didn't have somewhere to be right after work would start bringing bags in just to get a little more money for each shift.

Or perhaps just ensure that companies would do what they want to do in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[numlock]

No, I believe they will absolutely adjust to account for the cost of litigation. They won't simply pull that out of profits and not take it back in.



good thing the courts spoke out here yet again and said they aren't changing their opinion then.

which brings the question if they think they can sell goods for a higher price (to recoup costs associated with "frivolous" lawsuits) without losing so many sales its detrimental why not do it now?

i would hate it if my sense of fair and unfair and right and wrong came courts far removed the life of normal people.

 

[pdqgp]

I would hate it if my sense of fair and unfair and right and wrong came courts far removed the life of normal people.

You're entitled to pull your sense of whatever from where ever you'd like. thankfully litigation like this however is settled in court.

which brings the question if they think they can sell goods for a higher price (to recoup costs associated with "frivolous" lawsuits) without losing so many sales its detrimental why not do it now?

Their legal fees here will be on their balance sheets likely under organizational costs or somewhere. Typically legal fees will be written off over a number of years. As with any cost it will likely be accounted for, especially when impacting earnings. Again, somewhere down the road the costs will be made up for.

 

[PS4DailyLove]

Apple stores have a right to search - too many bad apples working for them (pun intended) and every retailer I worked for in my youth did this. But they should have instituted a gentler policy. (But then again I guess Jobs was always an anti-rank-and-file jerk.) I think there're bad apples among the store managers - btw do the managers get searched, too? Finally, I wonder if the former employees who sued were spies sent by Apple's competitors.

 

[avanpelt]

Or perhaps just ensure that companies would do what they want to do in a reasonable amount of time.

Sometimes that's just not feasible. If you've had a store full of customers all day and you have 8 employees leaving at the same time and one manager available to check the bags, some of the employees are probably going to have to wait.

We all deal with aspects of our jobs that are not ideal. The Apple Store employees can deal with this. If they're pressed for time after work, they have the option of leaving a bag in their car or with the person who will be picking them up from work.

 

[C DM]

Sometimes that's just not feasible. If you've had a store full of customers all day and you have 8 employees leaving at the same time and one manager available to check the bags, some of the employees are probably going to have to wait.

We all deal with aspects of our jobs that are not ideal. The Apple Store employees can deal with this. If they're pressed for time after work, they have the option of leaving a bag in their car or with the person who will be picking them up from work.

Then you perhaps have an extra person or persons that can help with that when needed. Seems quite rational.

 

[numlock]

You're entitled to pull your sense of whatever from where ever you'd like. thankfully litigation like this however is settled in court.

again your insults are laughable. but sadly with a corrupt political system and politically appointed judges its a very sad state of affairs and probably one of the worst times in recent history to use the courts as your moral compass.

and why not raise the prices if they think they can and it wont hurt?

Sometimes that's just not feasible. If you've had a store full of customers all day and you have 8 employees leaving at the same time and one manager available to check the bags, some of the employees are probably going to have to wait.

We all deal with aspects of our jobs that are not ideal. The Apple Store employees can deal with this. If they're pressed for time after work, they have the option of leaving a bag in their car or with the person who will be picking them up from work.

that dosent seem like the biggest issue apple ever faced.

 

[areyoupullingmyleg]

You just don't get it. And I expect that nothing will ever change your cold view. Retail workers aren't machines. They are people. What Apple is doing is appalling, really. A company that prides itself on humanitarian acts, and working towards "the greater good" to come out and pull a stunt like this is bogus. I used to work retail for Best Buy. And as much as it pains me to say, they were light years ahead in this aspect. Best Buy had a policy where you would get your bags checked and then clock out. If you didn't have a bag then you would sail right through.

My guess is that you're some wannabe hotshot barely making the cut at your "respectable" job.

Learn to appreciate and respect those those that you deem beneath you.

But I guess I'm just some guy on the internet. Or maybe I'm the CEO of some fortune 500.

You sound like a guy I would never hire.

Sounds like you not only haven't worked retail for the
past several decades (if at all), but also didn't pay attention when the Supreme Court addressed this very issue recently as well and UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that people aren't entitled to get paid for this time.



So Apple's a bad retailer for using the same procedures in their stores that every other retailer does?



So you want the store to pay your daughter more than the others who work there because she made plans after work which have absolutely nothing to do with the store's function or her job.

Why does your kid deserve more money because she chose to bring a personal bag into a retail workplace? Is she a princess or somehow special? Should everyone else ALSO stay on the clock and be forced to hang out to accommodate your daughter's time waiting because SHE decided that she just HAD to bring in her bag to accommodate HER plans?

Or even worse, why should your daughter basically get to stop working before the others on the shift and NOT do the work the entire time she is scheduled? Why should everyone else have to work their shifts end-to-end while your kid gets to stand in a line and NOT work for the 15-20 minutes? Oh yeah. Because it's a party or something and it's just that important.

No. You can either deal with it, or get another job. Same as everyone else in that industry. You don't need to bring that purse to work. Use your pocket, and if it's too much to handle, get a different job.

 

[pdqgp]

again your insults are laughable. but sadly with a corrupt political system and politically appointed judges its a very sad state of affairs and probably one of the worst times in recent history to use the courts as your moral compass.

wasn't insulting you. feel free to go off on a tangent showing where this decision was based on corruption. rhetorical....please don't as it would be painful to discuss that with you.

and why not raise the prices if they think they can and it wont hurt?

I think they did recently raise the prices of iPhones. in response to this suite....those costs again will be amortized and recognized as cost increases to their business model over the next several years. as a fellow business owner I'm sure you realize that though.

 

[Precision Gem]

Maybe if the employee's don't steel from their employer, they wouldn't need to have their bags checked after leaving work. Honest employees should be upset with their dishonest coworkers, not their employer.

 

[Jennism]

This is common practice for retail. Sounds like a bunch of whiners. I'm pretty sure they would have signed a contract when hired stating that they would be subject to a bag search when leaving the building.

 

[numlock]

wasn't insulting you. feel free to go off on a tangent showing where this decision was based on corruption. rhetorical....please don't as it would be painful to discuss that with you.



I think they did recently raise the prices of iPhones. in response to this suite....those costs again will be amortized and recognized as cost increases to their business model over the next several years. as a fellow business owner I'm sure you realize that though.

hey hey. "pull your sense of whatever from where ever you'd like" its obvious what you mean there.

and i never said this decision was based on corruption. i have however said that money is corrupting politics, that they are politically appointed and completely out of touch with the working man.

as far as i know the iphone has been the same price for years. perhaps you mean internationally?. whether some costs have gone down and legal fees up resulting in the same price neither of us will ever know.

 

[C DM]

Maybe if the employee's don't steel from their employer, they wouldn't need to have their bags checked after leaving work. Honest employees should be upset with their dishonest coworkers, not their employer.

Sure, but what can they do about it? Pay for it by spending a long time in line after they finished their work?

This is common practice for retail. Sounds like a bunch of whiners. I'm pretty sure they would have signed a contract when hired stating that they would be subject to a bag search when leaving the building.

The practice might be common, but the unreasonable amount of time related to it isn't and shouldn't be.

 

[Quu]

Not really. I'm sure 99.99% of the public doesn't know/care about this.

Well I care and if you read my post I said:

Not very good PR for Apple. This makes them look bad to me like a greedy employer that doesn't care about their employees. For shame.

I was not speaking for the general population.

 

[numlock]

Maybe if the employee's don't steel from their employer, they wouldn't need to have their bags checked after leaving work. Honest employees should be upset with their dishonest coworkers, not their employer.

first of all i object to guilty until proven innocent but lets examine this a little bit.

• i would be unhappy with apple not doing a better job in their hiring.
• i would be frustrated at apple because it would be out of my hands to fix this issue.
• i would expect that if i do my job well and checks have shown that i do not steal that i will earn some trust but somehow i doubt that will happen.