Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed

[Kaibelf]

Everyone has a car or even drives?

The even simpler solution would be to just have your butler bring your lunch (with Grey Poupon of course) when it's time to eat.

So basically anyone who happens to not bring an unnecessary bag with them is a billionaire? Useless hyperbole is lazy. It's your job, not your bedroom, home, storage locker, or gym.

 

[C DM]

Many complain that Apple was searching empty lunch bags. Bring your lunch in a paper bag and garbage it when done. No bag. No Search. No lost time.

Maybe Apple should just have gone with random searches and charged anybody with stolen property in their bag.

So people only bring lunch and nothing else when they go to work? And even if it's just lunch, everyone brings (environmentally unfriendly) diposable containers and utensils rather than reusable ones (may of which can help keep things not or cold too)?

 

[Kaibelf]

I wonder if the people who do the bag checks are still on the clock when they do them?

Yes, because they are usually a loss prevention position that also needs to run security for the store.

 

[C DM]

So basically anyone who happens to not bring an unnecessary bag with them is a billionaire? Useless hyperbole is lazy. It's your job, not your bedroom, home, storage locker, or gym.

So people don't bring lunch or something else to work? What indentured servitude system is at work there?

 

[TheHorrorNerd]

All those employees should quit. That'll leave Apple retail hurting for a bit.

Wait. Nope. Apple has like 30 employees for every 20 customers.

That's not exactly true...

 

[vooke]

A simple solution would be slashing the checking time to under 5 min. That way whether the 5 min falls on the employer or employee, the lost time is negligible

 

[C DM]

A simple solution would be slashing the checking time to under 5 min. That way whether the 5 min falls on the employer or employee, the lost time is negligible

That would be just too rational and reasonable though.

 

[Kaibelf]

Right because that's what I've come to love about Apple: that they do all the same stupid things that every other company does. Think different, alright.



Didn't say that. I said they should get their crap together and do the bag search on their own time, before the end of the employee's shift.

Actually, that's exactly what you're saying. You want your kid to stop working early when not everyone else gets to, but still collect the same money as people who are actually working. How incredibly selfish of you.

Wow, you get really aggressive about this? I take it you've never worked for an employer that makes these kinds of unreasonable demands or you have and were too weak to recognize that it's wrong. It's not about being special or deserving something special. It's about the company having demands but not wanting to pay for that. If they want to search bags, they need to do it on their own time. People have lives outside of work and an employer should take the fact that they employ human beings into account. Sometimes, people have to bring things to work. That's not unreasonable.

Actually, it's about YOU having demands for free money. Spare us all the "think of the children!!" nonsense. IF you need to bring things to work, then that's a YOU problem, and YOU can spare the time to make sure you're not taking anything from the store. I worked in a retail store, and this was the same thing that everyone did there every day, and we sure weren't a bunch of crybabies over it because it made sense. You act as if a normal person can't go about life without packed luggage on them every day.

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. The employer should get their act together and either do the bag search immediately after the employee clocks off or shortly before. And clearly, you have no idea the pittance that retailers are paying nowadays. It's not like a company is losing tons of cash because an employee isn't working for a few minutes at the end of their shift.

You sure are a fan of repeating the whole "get their act together" line. Perhaps you are just not a worthwhile employee and you, AGAIN, follow up by asking for the store to pay someone to NOT work when everyone else does work. Hand out much? And sorry, but it's retail. Want to complain about it being a pittance? Perhaps get with reality and understand these are jobs generally meant for very young people to have spare cash. If you are trying to work in a store and raise a family on that, then that speaks a lot more about your own choices than any obligation Apple or the world has. Exactly how much skill does it take for you to grab that little box off a shelf and hand it to me? How much do you think you deserve for that?

Do you think a big, national retailers expecting their employees to wait around 15-20 minutes is reasonable?

Yes, yes I do.

The entire freakin' industry does it. And guess what? That doesn't make it right. In fact, I'm disappointed to hear that Apple is just fine following the herd and treating their employees the same, disrespectful way any other retailer does. They should be ashamed.

Their job is to make money. If you think it's so shameful, then apply different rules at YOUR store. It's not Apple's job, nor anyone else's, to tip the scales in favor of some entitled brat millennials who think they have something to prove.

So people don't bring lunch or something else to work? What indentured servitude system is at work there?

Use a lunchbox. It doesn't have to be in the bottom of a giant purse along with 4575847548945789 other things. Those are the ONLY bags that take any time to really look into. As for other items, what do you really need to bring to work to stand around an Apple store? Honestly. Do you need a spare pair of shoes? A change of clothes? Makeup? Do you need all that other junk in the bag? No. You need your person, your outfit, and you SHOULD get ready before you leave your home like a professional.

Also, it's not indentured servitude, but it's not an office either. That's one of the realities of working in retail. The same as wearing a uniform to fast food, and washing your hands repeatedly in restaurants. You're coming very close to comparing it to slavery, which is pretty insulting to those who actually WERE slaves and indentured servants.

 

[C DM]

Use a lunchbox. It doesn't have to be in the bottom of a giant purse along with 4575847548945789 other things. Those are the ONLY bags that take any time to really look into. As for other items, what do you really need to bring to work to stand around an Apple store? Honestly. Do you need a spare pair of shoes? A change of clothes? Makeup? Do you need all that other junk in the bag? No. You need your person, your outfit, and you SHOULD get ready before you leave your home like a professional.

Seems like some people had to wait for a while to get whatever they brought with them looked at, be it a backpack or something else like a lunchbox. If they weren't checking something like lunchboxes then wouldn't the purpose of the checking be fairly ineffectual as people would catch on and only bring lunchboxes and then take things from the store that they could carry on a lunchbox (sure it won't be a laptop but it can definitely be quite a few expensive things).

And what if you are going somewhere after work or need to run an errand at lunch and you don't have a car or anything like that? Something that normal people do everywhere all the time. Again, what sort of indentured servitude system are we imagining here?

 

[Kaibelf]

Seems like some people had to wait for a while to get whatever they brought with them looked at, be it a backpack or something else.

Some people had to wait in line while the people who got their personal effects together got in line first. Those who didn't have a bag left the premises immediately. Same as any other store. Loose coats are checked, backpacks, purses, and other containers that aren't transparent. Those who didn't bring bags with them left immediately. That's why I have an issue with this lawsuit. They were asking to be paid more than those who didn't bring things with them, and it's not fair. The only other option would be to have them stop working early and pawn off their duties, again, to the people who didn't bring bags, and that's also not fair.

And the most annoying thing about it is, this kind of policy is incredibly common, and it's in all training and handbook materials. Clear as day. When people are hired, they sign these papers to agree to everything, so by them then claiming they were robbed, they were lying on the papers THEY signed. I really have no sympathy for people who break contracts.

 

[peppe1]

I worked for years at the old london flagship store (regent), so not a small one by any means, and bag searches were never a problem to anyone except thieves and awkward people that brought all their devices to work.

Shrink is a massive problem for any retail business, apple is no different but the searches never took long. We had little cards that had our apple device serial numbers on them and the guard would peek in the bag and check the last few digits of your phone SN. people dont need to bring their laptop to work, and if ur the guy in front getting his 5 laptops and 6 idevices out to check then ppl are gonna sigh at you, not the guards doing the checks most times.

 

[ThemePro]

Good news and I hope some of the dead weight quits since the money grab failed.

 

[fallenjt]

Absolute ********, Apple! Very disappointed in this. Makes me think Apple is a lousy employer for their retail staff.



Which isn't realistic. People lead busy lives. It's not always possible to avoid bringing personal effects with you to work. Sometimes you have things to do after work and have to bring personal effects with you.

If an employer wants to make a bag search part of the routine, then they need to make sure it's done within the parameters of the employee's shift. Outside of that, they are infringing on the employee's personal time. My daughter worked at a very large retailer (who shall remain unnamed) while going to college and they would often times keep her 15-20 minutes after work unpaid waiting for a manager to get a free minute to check her bag before leaving. Expecting that of people is reasonable, but not compensating them for their time is not.

I hope the attorneys representing the employees have other ways to attack this. It's wrong and should be corrected.

Go work somewhere else if you want. Apple force no one to work there. Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales and any department store do the same. Go sue them all. Btw, Sue airport security check too if you like for violating your privacy.

 

[Kaibelf]

Seems like some people had to wait for a while to get whatever they brought with them looked at, be it a backpack or something else like a lunchbox. If they weren't checking something like lunchboxes then wouldn't the purpose of the checking be fairly ineffectual as people would catch on and only bring lunchboxes and then take things from the store that they could carry on a lunchbox (sure it won't be a laptop but it can definitely be quite a few expensive things).

And what if you are going somewhere after work or need to run an errand at lunch and you don't have a car or anything like that? Something that normal people do everywhere all the time. Again, what sort of indentured servitude system are we imagining here?

Interesting how you completely ignored the part of my post where I SPECIFICALLY said a lunchbox would be easily and quickly searched instead of a large bag containing a menagerie of random items. That said, you want Apple (or whatever store) to pay you more money because you made plans or have errands to run which have nothing, AT ALL, to do with their business. Why? In what universe are they responsible for that? That's YOUR responsibility. Why do you insist on making YOUR plans and YOUR extra activities everyone else's burden?

And here you go again, talking about indentured servitude. That would clearly entail you weren't allowed to willingly walk away any time you want. No one forced these people to work there, and they are free to leave any time. They aren't bound to Apple. They are only bound by their own bills, and if they want to not have these rules, then they can exit the industry, or deal with the realities of the grown up world.

 

[fallenjt]

Right because that's what I've come to love about Apple: that they do all the same stupid things that every other company does. Think different, alright.



Didn't say that. I said they should get their crap together and do the bag search on their own time, before the end of the employee's shift.



Wow, you get really aggressive about this? I take it you've never worked for an employer that makes these kinds of unreasonable demands or you have and were too weak to recognize that it's wrong. It's not about being special or deserving something special. It's about the company having demands but not wanting to pay for that. If they want to search bags, they need to do it on their own time. People have lives outside of work and an employer should take the fact that they employ human beings into account. Sometimes, people have to bring things to work. That's not unreasonable.



Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. The employer should get their act together and either do the bag search immediately after the employee clocks off or shortly before. And clearly, you have no idea the pittance that retailers are paying nowadays. It's not like a company is losing tons of cash because an employee isn't working for a few minutes at the end of their shift.



Do you think a big, national retailers expecting their employees to wait around 15-20 minutes is reasonable?

The entire freakin' industry does it. And guess what? That doesn't make it right. In fact, I'm disappointed to hear that Apple is just fine following the herd and treating their employees the same, disrespectful way any other retailer does. They should be ashamed.

You never worked at retailers so you don't know crap. 80% stolen items are committed by employees, not customers. So, who should you check bags?

 

[bluespark]

Did you not read the article or do you just not know how the U.S. judicial system works?

The Supreme Court case concerned federal law. This one involved California law. The decision was unquestionably correct, though. As noted in the opinion, Apple legally could have prohibited employees from bringing bags to work. Instead, Apple allowed them, subject to a search. This was thus more accommodating than was legally necessary.

 

[Fishcake21]

Sounds like you not only haven't worked retail for the past several decades (if at all), but also didn't pay attention when the Supreme Court addressed this very issue recently as well and UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that people aren't entitled to get paid for this time.



So Apple's a bad retailer for using the same procedures in their stores that every other retailer does?



So you want the store to pay your daughter more than the others who work there because she made plans after work which have absolutely nothing to do with the store's function or her job.

Why does your kid deserve more money because she chose to bring a personal bag into a retail workplace? Is she a princess or somehow special? Should everyone else ALSO stay on the clock and be forced to hang out to accommodate your daughter's time waiting because SHE decided that she just HAD to bring in her bag to accommodate HER plans?

Or even worse, why should your daughter basically get to stop working before the others on the shift and NOT do the work the entire time she is scheduled? Why should everyone else have to work their shifts end-to-end while your kid gets to stand in a line and NOT work for the 15-20 minutes? Oh yeah. Because it's a party or something and it's just that important.

No. You can either deal with it, or get another job. Same as everyone else in that industry. You don't need to bring that purse to work. Use your pocket, and if it's too much to handle, get a different job.

OK uncle Ruckus. Let's let the employers beat you up silly and you will say it's ok because it's part of their job.

But you are rihht, one can always quit.

 

[Nevaborn]

I would be more surprised if they were not searched at work. They are surrounded but some of the most expensive and desirable consumer products ever made.

A search should take a few mins. If select managers are taking 20-30mins they are the issue not the process.

 

[sshambles]

Once had a job I was required to turn up for 15mins early before the shift started. Couldn't do anything about it. Just deal with it employees. If there's a way to get out of it, like clear bags or lunch containers, then make life easier on yourself.

 

[HangmanSwingset]

Getting your bag checked before you leave is part of the job, i.e. a task. If management doesn't want to make time for you to complete your task, that doesn't magically mean you should be off the clock our not compensated. You're technically working to complete said task, even if you're standing around picking your nose. It's beyond your control.

 

[C DM]

Interesting how you completely ignored the part of my post where I SPECIFICALLY said a lunchbox would be easily and quickly searched instead of a large bag containing a menagerie of random items. That said, you want Apple (or whatever store) to pay you more money because you made plans or have errands to run which have nothing, AT ALL, to do with their business. Why? In what universe are they responsible for that? That's YOUR responsibility. Why do you insist on making YOUR plans and YOUR extra activities everyone else's burden?

And here you go again, talking about indentured servitude. That would clearly entail you weren't allowed to willingly walk away any time you want. No one forced these people to work there, and they are free to leave any time. They aren't bound to Apple. They are only bound by their own bills, and if they want to not have these rules, then they can exit the industry, or deal with the realities of the grown up world.

How about taking the simplest rational solution and making sure bag searches are done within a minmum reasonable amount of time?

Once had a job I was required to turn up for 15mins early before the shift started. Couldn't do anything about it. Just deal with it employees. If there's a way to get out of it, like clear bags or lunch containers, then make life easier on yourself.

Doesn't mean that what you were asked to do was up to established laws/regulations/rules.

Go work somewhere else if you want. Apple force no one to work there. Macy's, Nordstrom, Bloomingdales and any department store do the same. Go sue them all. Btw, Sue airport security check too if you like for violating your privacy.

So why have any laws or regulations at all then?

 

[sk1wbw]

In his ruling, Alsup noted that employees could have avoided the searches, as some employees did, by not bringing personal bags to work.

This really doesn't make any sense. Just because you bring a bag to work doesn't mean the assumption that theft is there. Any interaction on a business level or a professional level between employees and managers should be done on the clock.

What's next, personal searches of cars? Your car has a trunk, so is the assumption of theft there as well?

 

[Serelus]

Sounds like you not only haven't worked retail for the past several decades (if at all), but also didn't pay attention when the Supreme Court addressed this very issue recently as well and UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that people aren't entitled to get paid for this time.



So Apple's a bad retailer for using the same procedures in their stores that every other retailer does?



So you want the store to pay your daughter more than the others who work there because she made plans after work which have absolutely nothing to do with the store's function or her job.

Why does your kid deserve more money because she chose to bring a personal bag into a retail workplace? Is she a princess or somehow special? Should everyone else ALSO stay on the clock and be forced to hang out to accommodate your daughter's time waiting because SHE decided that she just HAD to bring in her bag to accommodate HER plans?

Or even worse, why should your daughter basically get to stop working before the others on the shift and NOT do the work the entire time she is scheduled? Why should everyone else have to work their shifts end-to-end while your kid gets to stand in a line and NOT work for the 15-20 minutes? Oh yeah. Because it's a party or something and it's just that important.

No. You can either deal with it, or get another job. Same as everyone else in that industry. You don't need to bring that purse to work. Use your pocket, and if it's too much to handle, get a different job.

Interesting how you completely ignored the part of my post where I SPECIFICALLY said a lunchbox would be easily and quickly searched instead of a large bag containing a menagerie of random items. That said, you want Apple (or whatever store) to pay you more money because you made plans or have errands to run which have nothing, AT ALL, to do with their business. Why? In what universe are they responsible for that? That's YOUR responsibility. Why do you insist on making YOUR plans and YOUR extra activities everyone else's burden?

And here you go again, talking about indentured servitude. That would clearly entail you weren't allowed to willingly walk away any time you want. No one forced these people to work there, and they are free to leave any time. They aren't bound to Apple. They are only bound by their own bills, and if they want to not have these rules, then they can exit the industry, or deal with the realities of the grown up world.

Your argument is flawed in that you keep saying "When you bring something, it's YOUR problem."
Why is it that when the company wants to do these kinds of checks, it's not THEIR problem? People aren't making their "plans" and "extra activities" everyone else's burden. Companies are making it so people who actually LIVE a life outside the company have to compensate THEIR free time.

It's very simple, I bring my bag to work for things I am going to be doing in my personal time. My problem. You wanna do security checks, YOUR problem do it in your own time. You make it seem like standing in line is preferable to working, it's really not.

 

[Max(IT)]

How about taking the simplest rational solution and making sure bag searches are done within a minmum reasonable amount of time?

I strongly suspect that's what usually happen....

 

[Phoenixx]

Seriously this is just pathetic. How long does it take for someone to check your bag when you leave work at the end of the day? Thirty seconds. Maybe a minute at most. It's not like they are being asked to hang around for half an hour or so. I bet Apple's employees take much more time than a bag check takes visiting the bathroom each day. Talk about ridiculous.