Apparently the issue is that in enough cases that isn't the case at all.
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Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed
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Do you have any reason for your claim that the judge is overpaid? I'll believe you that he is well paid, but what makes him over paid?
For the lunch bag, you can bring your lunch in a paper bag that is thrown away after lunch. The problem isn't bringing a bag to work, the problem is taking a bag away from work (which might be filled with a few iPhones, for example).
That was _exactly_ the issue. Not the search, but waiting half an hour for someone being available to do the search.
There was an article not long ago about an employee stealing $1,000,000 worth of gift cards.
Frankly, where I work, the amount of stuff that I could steal without it getting noticed that things are missing is minimal compared to my salary. At an Apple Store, if I could leave with one iPhone 6 every day that isn't mine, that would be a lot of tax free money.
Makes me appreciate working in a professional job where there is trust. I'm fortunate in that when I was working for a well known supermarket in the UK searches were occasional and quick (which seemed OK to me). Waiting around is just unfair and really the search should be completed under 5 minutes from the end of the shift. I just hope the higher up (store and non store) management are also subject to checks to make the policy fair.
I think all in all it's legitimate. Obviously there has been crime around, even though it were only one or two persons out of a hundred. So the company or the respective stores have to protect their property. It's an actio reactio thing.
Were I do second your thoughts is how to handle it. Your daughter and others surely shouldn't spent some 20 minutes just for nothing and maybe missing their next bus. I just think this is not somehow being solvable, but somehow should be organized in a more convenient way by whatever company. Wherever there is some gatekeeper installed, we have to wait to get passed in or out at what occasion ever. Even though we actually do have permission...As external consultants for example we get controlled very often by our customers. But this is part of the job.
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These people didn't steal from their employer.
I used to work for a big company that checked our bags off-hours when we leave, wasn't an issue... Not sure why everyone is making a big fuss on bag checks. Just don't put personal **** in your bag and don't steal, it's a quick check...
And if you don't like it... just quit. Let someone else who's willing to get their bags checked so they can get your income.
And if you don't like it... just quit. Let someone else who's willing to get their bags checked so they can get your income.
Ideally, there would be some sort of checkout-area with lockers where employees could leave all their bags and belongings. But I can see that this technically not possible in every store, because the architecture simply doesn't allow it everywhere.
BTW: Are people actually padded down every single time? An iPhone or even an iPad Mini could easily be taped to one's back after all. Even more so, if you've got large shoulders ;-)
I can totally understand the need to check people's bags - there is no question about it. But if it's only a quick few minutes, it could well happen on company-time, couldn't it?
BTW: Are people actually padded down every single time? An iPhone or even an iPad Mini could easily be taped to one's back after all. Even more so, if you've got large shoulders ;-)
I can totally understand the need to check people's bags - there is no question about it. But if it's only a quick few minutes, it could well happen on company-time, couldn't it?
Get your facts straight. This wasn't the kind of theft the lawsuit was addressing. The case you are referring to was a situation where the thief "purchased" the gift cards. Look it up.
Meh.
My workplace has a policy that they CAN check our bags for any reason at any time, but they never do or have unless there is/was suspicion. With that being said pretty much every woman I know brings their purse with them everywhere, it's a little unreasonable to expect people to just forgo bringing a bag all together. They should just do the checks within the employees shift. If they really are as "quick" and a "non-issue" as you guys are suggesting, it shouldn't be an issue for them to do it in the final 30 seconds of an individuals shift. The way I see it is like this: If you're supposed to get off at 5 but it's a little busy and you leave at 5:10 they pay you for those 10 minutes of your personal time they used. It just seems silly they wouldn't compensate you for any time that you are required to be on the premises. Where does the line end if the employer just gets to hold you as long as they want? There should be a threshold in place so bag-checking doesn't get abused, maybe a 5-10 minuted window before the employee starts to get paid for their time. I'm not commenting on what the actual laws say, more so what is "right" for your employees. Also, I wouldn't clock out on our time clock until my bag was checked and I was cleared to go... and my employer wouldn't expect me to. I work in a hotel and our housekeepers are not allowed to leave until the executive housekeeper does a walk through of the rooms they cleaned and clears them. Those housekeepers stay on clock through that entire process, and this doesn't seem that different. We don't clock out until we are physically leaving the building.
Moral of the story is yeah, bag checks seem simple and fair enough. But clearly it's getting to a point where employees aren't being held a reasonable amount of time. The appropriate thing to do would be to fit the checks into the periods of time you're paying your employee for already, and if you hold them up 10 minutes.... I mean come on Apple... you can afford to pay your employees as a courtesy.
My workplace has a policy that they CAN check our bags for any reason at any time, but they never do or have unless there is/was suspicion. With that being said pretty much every woman I know brings their purse with them everywhere, it's a little unreasonable to expect people to just forgo bringing a bag all together. They should just do the checks within the employees shift. If they really are as "quick" and a "non-issue" as you guys are suggesting, it shouldn't be an issue for them to do it in the final 30 seconds of an individuals shift. The way I see it is like this: If you're supposed to get off at 5 but it's a little busy and you leave at 5:10 they pay you for those 10 minutes of your personal time they used. It just seems silly they wouldn't compensate you for any time that you are required to be on the premises. Where does the line end if the employer just gets to hold you as long as they want? There should be a threshold in place so bag-checking doesn't get abused, maybe a 5-10 minuted window before the employee starts to get paid for their time. I'm not commenting on what the actual laws say, more so what is "right" for your employees. Also, I wouldn't clock out on our time clock until my bag was checked and I was cleared to go... and my employer wouldn't expect me to. I work in a hotel and our housekeepers are not allowed to leave until the executive housekeeper does a walk through of the rooms they cleaned and clears them. Those housekeepers stay on clock through that entire process, and this doesn't seem that different. We don't clock out until we are physically leaving the building.
Moral of the story is yeah, bag checks seem simple and fair enough. But clearly it's getting to a point where employees aren't being held a reasonable amount of time. The appropriate thing to do would be to fit the checks into the periods of time you're paying your employee for already, and if you hold them up 10 minutes.... I mean come on Apple... you can afford to pay your employees as a courtesy.
those damn workers constantly stealing from the company while going to the bathroom more than once a day. rotten thieves if you ask me.
Which is insane. It's not really that acceptable to tell someone not to bring their own lunch and what not or else be stuck up to a half hour waiting for a bag check.
seems like the real issue is how safely apple stores its products. but when they can do security checks on peoples personal time there is no incentive to fix that. that and of course the respect and contempt you show your employees. one beauty of this race the bottom type of society.
i must say though that all these comments on how you should handle your lunch, lunch bag etc reminds me of the soup nazi episode and seeing rows of military personnel goose stepping.
totally off topic but when the biggest and richest companies are allowed this type of behaviour i am not very optimistic about the society in the future when more and more task will be done robots and ai.
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If that was the case, then it is a lot more understandable. Bag searches are understandable, and a good way to reduce staff theft, but waiting around for a long time for someone to be free to conduct them at the end of a shift isn't okay at all.
Amazon does this, as well; that may have been the case that precipitated the Supreme Court decision?
It's very controversial, and adds up to a lot of lost time for employees. What is the proper compensation for lost time outside the scheduled hours of your job? Why is there a disparity between salaried workers -who typically take comp time for their overage- and wage-earners who apparently are getting the shaft? The two Americas are very much in display with this decision. I'm sure the judge is very flexible with his own hours; those of us in the professional class typically have greater leeway.
I don't blame Apple -- theft by employees is staggeringly high. The products they sell are high-end, desirable items. That said, I wish they would lead by example and find a creative solution.
It's very controversial, and adds up to a lot of lost time for employees. What is the proper compensation for lost time outside the scheduled hours of your job? Why is there a disparity between salaried workers -who typically take comp time for their overage- and wage-earners who apparently are getting the shaft? The two Americas are very much in display with this decision. I'm sure the judge is very flexible with his own hours; those of us in the professional class typically have greater leeway.
I don't blame Apple -- theft by employees is staggeringly high. The products they sell are high-end, desirable items. That said, I wish they would lead by example and find a creative solution.
The issue isn't the searching or theft protection. That's their right as a business.
It's about the employee time, and in this case the disregard for it. I wonder what the test case will be for the Supreme Court here, perhaps asking them to stay over an hour after their shift, or an hour before, since it seems for the court it isn't about the amount of time, but rather the type of duty undertaken (and whether it's central to what they are being paid for).
I had a job (UK call centre) where I was expected to come in 15-20min early to setup my computer/workstation before getting paid. I always felt that if I was required to be there, that I should be paid for the time.
Interesting employer/employee legal times at the moment between stuff like this and Uber/Lyft "independent contractor" stuff.
It's about the employee time, and in this case the disregard for it. I wonder what the test case will be for the Supreme Court here, perhaps asking them to stay over an hour after their shift, or an hour before, since it seems for the court it isn't about the amount of time, but rather the type of duty undertaken (and whether it's central to what they are being paid for).
I had a job (UK call centre) where I was expected to come in 15-20min early to setup my computer/workstation before getting paid. I always felt that if I was required to be there, that I should be paid for the time.
Interesting employer/employee legal times at the moment between stuff like this and Uber/Lyft "independent contractor" stuff.
The judge is an ass.
The bag searches should be done on Apple's time. Apple is in the wrong on this matter. I can only presume that the company is so hard up for money that it desperately needs to save money to pay for those 5400rpm iMacs.
Tim Cook should think different and lead the way by paying his employees fairly.
The bag searches should be done on Apple's time. Apple is in the wrong on this matter. I can only presume that the company is so hard up for money that it desperately needs to save money to pay for those 5400rpm iMacs.
Tim Cook should think different and lead the way by paying his employees fairly.
1. Just because it would have been $60m dollars doesn't mean they should throw it out. "Oh no, we cant make apple pay that much!
2. Saying "don't bring a bag to work, some people don't" is redundant. Some people need a bag, some people want a bag, and that is ok.
3. All that said, I worked at a luxury retail store with the same check-as-you-clock-out policy and it never caused me any problems bar a 10 second delay to get on my way
2. Saying "don't bring a bag to work, some people don't" is redundant. Some people need a bag, some people want a bag, and that is ok.
3. All that said, I worked at a luxury retail store with the same check-as-you-clock-out policy and it never caused me any problems bar a 10 second delay to get on my way
interesting that when it comes to extremely high compensation in certain sectors its rationalised by the responsibility placed on those individuals. yet in certain sectors in retail we have people who can steal extremely expensive and desirable goods (while most dont) not being paid that much and even subjected to delays and searches on their own time.
This sort of logical thinking to avoid endless debates about how evil Apple is or how stupid the court system is silly.
Really... if you work retail, you know that anything you bring with you will be searched before you leave and it's done on your time. So, if you want to avoid this, use your head.
Sorry... but people got to stop whining about every friggin thing and start using their head. If the searches were to much for you... get a different job. Everyone thinks they're so freak'n entitled anymore and their time is so valuable. Get a clue... its a job and if you like the job and/or the pay check, you have to put up with their rules or move on. Bunch of baby's.
Wait until you get a real job and you're on salary and you realize how many times you work 10-12 hours a day for the same compensation.