Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed

[snowmoon]

I've read through this all before and I still believe that the SCOTUS and this case are against the plain reading of the statute at the federal level. This is on top of the fact that it's a crap policy that can only do more harm than good in terms of morale.

The standard the DOL uses is are you "engaged to wait" which means even if you are not doing work you are not free to go about your day free from interference. People should look it up and read the DOL guidance on the issue before commenting. I think the recent cases are an abomination in the law that is clear wage theft from vulnerable hourly workers. They are not slaves and deserve to be paid for their time that is controlled by their employer.

As someone who does not regularly drive I carry a bag most of the time. Personal items, umbrella, chromebooks, pens, paper, etc. I can only imagine someone with a handicap or a medical condition would have to have a bag with personal items as well.

All high value items at an Apple Store can be tracked by serial number and as far as I'm aware gift cards are only active once rung up. I am really at a loss as to what can be achieved through this policy.

 

[ScottNWDW]

Obviously all these people who are thinking that it is wrong for Apple to do a quick bag check as employees leave the store never held a retail job anywhere. Checking bags like this is a common practice at a vast majority of retail stores across the nation. I worked over 10 years in retail and with the exception of a big box store, had to have bags checked overtime you exited the store. None of those stores were Apple.

 

[numlock]

Obviously all these people who are thinking that it is wrong for Apple to do a quick bag check as employees leave the store never held a retail job anywhere. Checking bags like this is a common practice at a vast majority of retail stores across the nation. I worked over 10 years in retail and with the exception of a big box store, had to have bags checked overtime you exited the store. None of those stores were Apple.

sorry how is that relevant? because you accepted something everyone else should? obviously these people cant really make an issue about what goes on in other retailers.

 

[doctor-don]

Any reasoning as to why it was dismissed?

Frivolous.

 

[ScottNWDW]

sorry how is that relevant? because you accepted something everyone else should? obviously these people cant really make an issue about what goes on in other retailers.

If you don't like your bags being checked, don't bring them into work. It IS a COMMON PRACTICE in RETAIL to do this. Don't want your bag checked don't bring it. Simple By accepting a job where it is the policy to do the bag checks you accept the policy as well. If you don't either do not work there or do not bring a bag in. Period, Plain and simple.

 

[SkydiveGuy]

All these whining employees is exactly why I do all my shopping online.

If I can buy it without dealing with a human in a retail environment, I do it that way. Apple especially.

i order it in my pajamas, receive it at work where it's signed for my the mailroom staff.

Not only do I not need to deal with a "salesperson" but I don't have to waste my time and gas to do it.

I also get the one I want without them trying to up sell me on a warranty or add-ons.

 

[doctor-don]

I am sure on a judge's salary you can afford to eat out every day for lunch. But the low paid Apple store workers can't afford to do this and have to bring their lunch in a bag. Those overpaid judges just fail to understand this.

And before you ask, some people do not drive and use public transport to get to their job . . . or park their car in a place where it's not fiesable to run to it just to get your bag for your lunch.


A good judge would deliver the right verdict, not just uphold a law without thinking first to see if said law is corrupt or not. Not every law in the nation that passed parliament is in the best interests of the nation. Even in Australia we have had a few laws pass our state parmiament here in Queensland that will severely hurt the business confidence and certain industries bottom line.


Or you use the court of appeal and hope you get a new judge who has enough sense to see the right things.

If you are paid by the hour, when you clock off you are on your time, free to go. Being forced to stay there off the clock is wrong. In Australia that kind of case would be shut down so fast it would be blinding. The employer would lose in a heartbeat. I've worked ni hospitality industries. And for me I did have a few bag checks at some places and all of them were on the clock. The only thing non on the clock was me getting dressed into my chef's whites. But I had to that at work jsut before I started as you just can not travel to work or home from work in your whites. That's just a no-no and ungygienic.

Only in the USA would employeers be able to enforce unpaid overtime on the per hour wage paid employees.

A judge is not supposed to MAKE laws, he / she is supposed to interpret and enforce existing laws.

Do those employees bring their lunch as ONE lunch?

What is "fiesable"? My spell-check doesn't recognize it.

Proof-proof.

 

[SkydiveGuy]

Wow, that's one stupid ruling. You can avoid being mugged in the street by staying in your house. That doesn't make the mugger any less a mugger.

That's a horrible straw man arguement.

The proper way to look at it is: you can avoid being mugged by not walking down the street carrying something that a mugger wants to steal from you.

 

[numlock]

If you don't like your bags being checked, don't bring them into work. It IS a COMMON PRACTICE in RETAIL to do this. Don't want your bag checked don't bring it. Simple By accepting a job where it is the policy to do the bag checks you accept the policy as well. If you don't either do not work there or do not bring a bag in. Period, Plain and simple.

again what is the relevance that it is common place? that does make it right. that does not make the implementation of it right and that does not mean employees can not try and do something about it.

as stated multiple times it is a necessity for many to bring bags with them.

and people are afraid of that a tyrannical government will be the death of our rights.

That's a horrible straw man arguement.

The proper way to look at it is: you can avoid being mugged by not walking down the street carrying something that a mugger wants to steal from you.

how is yours better as it relates to this story?

 

[gnasher729]

Get your facts straight. This wasn't the kind of theft the lawsuit was addressing. The case you are referring to was a situation where the thief "purchased" the gift cards. Look it up.

Love it. "Get your facts straight". Put your thinking hat on. The question is whether a store can be sure to have only honest employees, or also employees that may be dishonest. The million dollar theft is clearly evidence that Apple has some dishonest employees.

 

[ScottNWDW]

On a recent trip to the local mall. I witnessed these bag checks being done at the apple Store as well as a few others. At the Apple Store they usually have 2-3 greeters at the entrance. An Apple employee leaving the store with a messenger bag, before walking out, walked up to a greeter opened the flap of the messenger bag, the greeter looked in nodded and the employee exited the store. Total time about 10 seconds. Are we really complaining about something that literally takes seconds to do? This same thing happened at 2 other stores during this mall visit. Each took less than a minute. Each did not seem to bother anyone. Have we really come to a place where we are going to split hairs over a common policy of retail, that for all intense purposes,can be avoided by not bringing in bags. Even at $10 an hour - which is high for an average retail employee - amounts to about 16 cents if it took the whole minute to do. In the case of the Apple employee I witnessed he lost out on 2.777778 cents. wow. Are we really suing over at most 50 cents extra on a weekly paycheck before taxes? Really?

 

[SkydiveGuy]

how is yours better as it relates to this story?

Exactly my point. It's a pointless arguement.

 

[muadibe]

A family member worked at Macy's selling jewelry. She, like many employees there, carried a transparent bag so they could be searched in just seconds. Apple employees may want to consider that approach.

 

[Blackstick]

Worked at Apple for years. Never had to wait more than 30 seconds to have a bag checked. Wised up, moved to Corp IT- double the money, quiet December, and mostly 9-5. Never looked back!

 

[yaboyac29]

I need to get searched prior to being on the clock in order to get to my job.. To make sure I'm not bringing threats into the workplace.

Takes less than minute. No way an Apple Store takes longer than that to search a regular employee compared to me (I have a more serious job than some stupid retail).

 

[numlock]

Exactly my point. It's a pointless arguement.

it was an hyperbole but i felt it conveyed what the poster wanted. yours does as well although i prefer the other one.

 

[snowmoon]

otal time about 10 seconds. Are we really complaining about something that literally takes seconds to do?

No, we are not, read the cases. The Amazon case which started all of this they are talking about upwards of 30 minutes per shift to get through the security lines. The case with Apple it was not 30 minutes per shift, but the time was highly variable and all of it adds up to real time. I believe the SCOTUS erred in it's ruling that hourly workers only need to be compensated for things integral to their duties since this will open the door to all kinds of abuse. The searches prevent the employee for going about their business and are for the primary benefit of their employer therefore it should be compensated time.

 

[Swampthing]

OK… This stupid vending machine refuses to take my dollar, and every day I have to spend tons of my own personal time trying to make my own dollar work! Some days I have to use extra personal time trying to find another dollar in my wallet! I am going to file a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer of this machine and the shopping mall and Pepsi for making me feel like a criminal by rejecting my dollar as if it were a counterfeit dollar and taking away all of my personal time!!!

 

[apolloa]

That's disgraceful, no employer can request you take an action required for them and not be paid for it including bag searches. This is nothing more then the usual corporation taking the mickey to save money.
You also can't discriminate and tell people don't bring a bag into work. But then they will surely check all your pockets too and again the time that takes should be on business time, not your own personal time.

Perhaps you should caclulate 10 mins by 5 then 4 then say 11 to account for one months holiday, then divide by 60 and see how many hours you are giving your employer for free a year for an action they request you do.
By the way it comes to around 36 hours which is probably a weeks pay for Apple staff.

 

[Romy90210]

OK… This stupid vending machine refuses to take my dollar, and every day I have to spend tons of my own personal time trying to make my own dollar work! Some days I have to use extra personal time trying to find another dollar in my wallet! I am going to file a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer of this machine and the shopping mall and Pepsi for making me feel like a criminal by rejecting my dollar as if it were a counterfeit dollar and taking away all of my personal time!!!

Sue the vending machines?

 

[numlock]

I need to get searched prior to being on the clock in order to get to my job.. To make sure I'm not bringing threats into the workplace.

Takes less than minute. No way an Apple Store takes longer than that to search a regular employee compared to me (I have a more serious job than some stupid retail).

yes the time it takes to search correlates with the seriousness and stupidity of the job. that is well known

but in all seriousness in these cases its not just about the time it takes to search but the wait to be searched.

OK… This stupid vending machine refuses to take my dollar, and every day I have to spend tons of my own personal time trying to make my own dollar work! Some days I have to use extra personal time trying to find another dollar in my wallet! I am going to file a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer of this machine and the shopping mall and Pepsi for making me feel like a criminal by rejecting my dollar as if it were a counterfeit dollar and taking away all of my personal time!!!

decent point of view. however the absurdity of comparing what you have to put up with to keep a roof over you head and not go to bed hungry as opposed to filling yourself with sugar is baffling.

 

[pdqgp]

I said they should get their crap together and do the bag search on their own time, before the end of the employee's shift.

why on Apple's time, they set the rules and the employee is the one who is choosing to bring the bag knowing that it would result in a search. Employees choice to do so means doing it on their time.

Everyone has a car or even drives?

Not the company's issue if their people drive or not or have a place such as a car to put their bag they knowingly will need to be searched.

 

[MasterRyu2011]

Sounds like Alsup doesn't bring lunch to work or remember what it's like to get paid by the hour anymore. He should have also noted in his ruling that quitting was an option and closed with a "neener neener."

What kind of lunch requires a backpack? Plus, most people eat out at the mall food court anyway. Yeah, I generalize much. When I worked in retail I don't ever remember taking a back pack with me. Then again, my car would be parked outside within 2 feet of the entrance, so I had the convenience of just going to my car to get whatever I needed.

 

[numlock]

why on Apple's time, they set the rules and the employee is the one who is choosing to bring the bag knowing that it would result in a search. Employees choice to do so means doing it on their time.




Not the company's issue if their people drive or not or have a place such as a car to put their bag they knowingly will need to be searched.

you know what. that dosent seem like it is that much of a choice for a lot of people.

 

[Benjamin Frost]

That's a horrible straw man arguement.

The proper way to look at it is: you can avoid being mugged by not walking down the street carrying something that a mugger wants to steal from you.

That's a moronic way to look at it.

I guess we should all go around in rags and not carry any iPhones or iPads. We should live in caves, not drive cars and not carry around any money in case we attract thieves or burglars.

The essential problem arises, I think, from how long is acceptable to spend on bag searches. If a case is to be made for bag searches outside hours, there needs to be a maximum time limit. I would suggest that 10 minutes is the upper limit that is reasonable. If they wish to spend longer, then those searches must only be carried out in working hours, and no time should be allocated for searching outside working hours. This allows flexibility for small businesses that only need a few minutes for searching, and large businesses which may need more time. It also makes it fair, as small businesses typically suffer more from work expenses, whereas large businesses are less affected.