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Leaked Intel Roadmap Reveals More Efficient Chip Than M1 Pro and Max to Launch Within Two Years
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Well said, people here trashing Intel for their recent mishaps, but the reality is this was a much-needed push in the industry. People also seem to forget that Apple was on the brink of bankruptcy just years ago for perhaps similar reasons. At the end consumers and technology/science are going to benefit from this war.
My question is whether this means Microsoft et al are planning to be hitting hard for x86 as the dominant form over switching to ARM or some kind of RISC derivatives?
Because of course most of the GNU/Linux dev has to follow the mainstream Wintel market anyway. Which means Linux on Arm will be more obscure, and they'll continue to put their eggs into the x86 basket.
It makes it easier, I suppose for developers who do not want to switch away from developing on x86. If it looks like it's not going that way, then x86 lives on for another generation. Amazingly.
Which is kind of bizarre at this point. Apple will be really alone in their dev. I know they like it that way, but it will make cross-platform development even more poky.
Because of course most of the GNU/Linux dev has to follow the mainstream Wintel market anyway. Which means Linux on Arm will be more obscure, and they'll continue to put their eggs into the x86 basket.
It makes it easier, I suppose for developers who do not want to switch away from developing on x86. If it looks like it's not going that way, then x86 lives on for another generation. Amazingly.
Which is kind of bizarre at this point. Apple will be really alone in their dev. I know they like it that way, but it will make cross-platform development even more poky.
It's both.
You can bet companies like Dell are knocking on Intel's door complaining that Apple's chips are far more efficient. So Intel is absolutely under pressure from Apple as well. At some point, if Intel doesn't move, someone else will — Qualcomm, perhaps, or Microsoft, or a consortium.
PC builders are a tiny slice of the market.
Linux on ARM isn't obscure. Android is Linux on ARM, so that's already billions of devices. An increasing amount of servers are Linux on ARM. Embedded stuff is increasingly Linux on ARM.
Very little has moved to x86 in recent years.
Apple is hardly "alone" in ARM. Odds are most of the devices in your household are ARM, not x86.
You also must believe that as Apple discussed issues with Intel and a desire to leave the Intel platform that Intel would have shared their plans and future goals. If they had this big of step and Apple believed it Apple may not have dropped Intel to begin with.
@samifathi correction: the 3nm won’t be used on the A15, the A15 is on the iPhone 13 and it is built on a 5nm+ process.
The iPhone 15, however, will be using an A17, in 2023, and that chip will probably use the new 3nm FinFet process. And in 2024-2025 TSMC is expected to transition from FinFet transistors to GateAllAround transistors, which will be another big jump probably.
The iPhone 15, however, will be using an A17, in 2023, and that chip will probably use the new 3nm FinFet process. And in 2024-2025 TSMC is expected to transition from FinFet transistors to GateAllAround transistors, which will be another big jump probably.
Intel promises to be in two years time where Apple was two years ago.
I’m not sure they can “apply what Apple did”, at least not with x86. M1 is an ARM based design, which have always been noted for their power efficiency relative to x86. And Apple has had a toe in ARM since the late 80s, when they became the first third party to work with Acorn on the ARM architecture. So Apple has strong familiarity with the ARM design (having used it in some of their biggest hits and biggest flops).
Except for less expensive components, lower power consumption and heat generation, not having to buy a new socket every year, or not wanting to support a company that has engaged in anti-competitive practices for much of its history.
Sorry but this is such an inaccurate statement. Sometimes it's good, but often it's bad. Look at streaming services for example, there's dozens of them and each one holds something someone wants to watch. Competition often leads to fragmentation and more expense for the consumer as a whole. (Obviously it won't do it in this case but I'm speaking in general).
Yup, intel is at least 2-3 years behind. With that said I expect performance gains to slow down/plateau in a few years for Apple as we hit smaller lithography and start running out of optimizations. At that point intel will probably be much closer as simple ST/MT performance slows down back to more typical 5-10% increases per year.
I think we'll continue to see more specialized SOC functions around machine learning, image processing, etc to be a trend.
1) Intel has been trying and failing to make high performance, low power chips since Atom in the mobile days. Apple left them after 15 years because they weren’t able to. Now all of a sudden they can?
2) Why is Intel focused on beating Apple? Apple is not a competitor and does not sell chips. Even if Intel’s chips are twice as good Apple will not come back. AMD is their problem that they are in denial about, who is not in “the rear view mirror” as claimed.
2) Why is Intel focused on beating Apple? Apple is not a competitor and does not sell chips. Even if Intel’s chips are twice as good Apple will not come back. AMD is their problem that they are in denial about, who is not in “the rear view mirror” as claimed.
For #2, it’s probably less Apple and more about keeping Intel partners in the Intel fold, lest they depart for AMD or (worse, from Intel’s perspective) ARM based chips. With customers that depart to AMD but stay on x86, it’s far easier to get them to switch back once Intel has some more competitive options (kinda like what happened during the Core era, where Intel regained much of the business and cachet they lost during the Pentium 4 era). If partners switch architectures, then Intel’s offerings would have to be so good that they’re worth the cost of switching architectures again. But Apple’s are the best ARM chips there are, though Qualcomm’s chips are probably able to handily out compete Celeron based systems in performance, efficiency, and cost and may rival the i3 and entry level i5 markets. So, by targeting Apple (and with Apple as a proxy for ARM), they hope to alleviate the fears of their OEM partners (like Dell, for instance).
Presumably because if they can't quickly match Apple's single-core performance/TDP ratio, other non-Apple ARM chipmakers like Qualcomm are going to have a much easier time entering the PC market and eating into their OEM sales.
Also probably hurts their brand image quite a bit to have been dropped by a major company due to their 2012-2020 stagnation, so they're probably also hoping to recover from that in the public eye.
Intel is moving to 3nm, that is what the battery efficiency is.
Currently, Intel is on 10nm, so there will be a huge jump in efficiency.
Impossible. Apple took up all capacity from TMSC. So what could Intel have done?
Now TMSC will also produce Intel chips, but on the new 3nm proces which is going to be a big jump.
From another thread, here's a plot I did yesterday of year-over-year iOS single-core performance gains relative to the Mac during the same time period (A5 and up for the iOS scores, because Geekbench 4):
Keep in mind that the Apple Silicon mac scores are a bit handicapped here because Geekbench 4 was x86-only, so M1 scores are via Rosetta 2. Anyway, it looks like the rapid pace of Apple single-core improvement has slowed a bit since ~2017, but is still on a faster rate of improvement than Intel has been for the past decade. I guess time will tell how those trends hold up!
LEAKED INTEL!!!! The next thing will be better than the previous.
BREAKING: Next years Ferrari will perform BETTER than the last one. Know that's shocking, as normally everything gets worse in the next release, right?
BREAKING: Next years Ferrari will perform BETTER than the last one. Know that's shocking, as normally everything gets worse in the next release, right?
Intel sounds like someone trying to win back a lover that jilted them.
It's over, man! Move on and find somebody new.
It's over, man! Move on and find somebody new.
Windows market is not at all like Mac. This is Apple’s third time transitioning and they have the “courage” to follow through and commit to moving forward. Windows market is not as tightly controlled, has always been x86, and is all about backwards compatibility. Microsoft is unable and unwilling to do this, which is why Visual Studio is not ARM native. They won’t even port their own software.
True that. Although their brand is nowhere as strong as Apple’s. Intel has always been the 800-pound gorilla of the chip industry, able to crush competitors (sometimes illegally) and was “Intel Inside”. But they can’t touch Apple, a trillion dollar company who just got up and walked away from x86 like it never even mattered. No one else in Intel’s history ever had the guts to do that. Must be driving them crazy ?.