Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Actually, yes.

So you would prefer a two generation old processor? I was under the impression that the 320m was only there for hardware video acceleration and not for serious heavy lifting like CAD or gaming. The i5s + HD3000 should do those tasks better than the 320m.

Me? Actually, yes - which is why I pulled the trigger on a 2010 model as soon as I heard a whisper that the 2011 would be Intel IGP-only. C2D is slower, but can still do everything an i5 can do. Sandy IGP can't do everything the 320m can do (no CUDA, fake OpenCL, likely won't run some of the games / apps 320m will). 320m is 30-50% faster in GPU-bound benchmarks, which could be the difference between playable and slide-show. There were rumors that Apple would ditch the ODD to add a discrete GPU to the 13, but I've been around long enough to realize that Intel IGP was the more likely scenario. Maybe next time.
 
Don't like it? Vote with your wallet and don't buy it :rolleyes: It's like beating a dead horse. Do we need to call the waaaahmbulance?
 
Yep

Don't like it? Vote with your wallet and don't buy it :rolleyes: It's like beating a dead horse. Do we need to call the waaaahmbulance?

Agreed. Apple is motivated by money, same as any other corporation. If 13" sales fall off enough, perhaps Apple will rethink their GPU strategy (or maybe they'll just kill the 13" in favor of the MBA).
 
No one will care. They've DICTATED what you WILL use if you buy the 13". Otherwise, pony up the cash for a high-end 15" or 17". Those are the ones that really matter anyway.

13" is for casual use. Apple has dictated that. You want power? Go big. That's the way it is.

Next thread.
 
It's a moot point, as C2D is end of life and Apple wasn't prepared to completely redesign the bottom-rung MBP to ditch the ODD and add a discreet GPU - especially when there are so many takers for a $1200 IGP-only model.

Bingo.

Besides. Thar be iPhones, iPads and iLion to get out the door.

Can't mess with dem pesky GPU's for the $1200 minions.
 
Look at this thread...

I have said the same thing only to be slammed by those that are Apple apologists or blind to their ignorance.

I have used Mac's longer (10+ years) than most of these people and I am a stock holder to boot.

I am not only getting frustrated by this for my own wants/needs, I am also mad as a shareholder.

Why you may ask? SWITCHERS! There are so many untapped switchers out there because of Apples disregard for a Discrete GPU in the 13".

Most students if given the question on best laptop size would answer 13". Lugging around a 15+ incher is just plain inconvenient. However, most of these people game as well. This keeps a 13" Apple products out of the question for most. Especially since most of them do not buy new computers every revision.

From a design standpoint, one could say that the 13" needs an internal/external revamp to make this happen. I would say that this is just a plain example of Apple being so far out of touch with OSX and its users that its just plain stupid.

Looking at it from another perspective, I guess they are banking on Gameloft and other iOS developers to push out games that don't require much balls to push. This is actually genius in a way, because they get a cut on all software sold through the App store.

iOS is ruining the OSX/Mac experience. Look at the Mac Pro refreshes. Hell almost has to freeze over before they revamp/refresh that line. With the iMac, the consistently put one revision below cards inside, BUT at least theres one inside.

If I were to buy one today, it would be the high end 15" anti glare. But I challenge you to price that out, and compare it to other products on the market. Take away OSX & Windows. Think of it as just hardware for the dollar. Then think about it from the switchers position the wants the dedicated GPU. Then think about how many lost sales and boosted interest in OSX has been lost. Then think about all the high end developers Apple could have had making games or other software.

In short, the users lose. Apple will still continue to rake in the cash with iOS as it is now the crown jewel of the Apple empire.
 
<QQ snip>
You do realize that for most of those students Facebook games are all they play, right?

Also, Apple can't update the Mac Pro until LGA 2011 comes out in the fourth quarter of this year.

It's not about being an apologist. I've used Macs for sixteen years now, and Apple has consistently improved upon their machines and software. Are they slower now? Sure. Are they removing some product lines? Sure. Does that mean they hate their users or are out of touch with them? The fifty-plus billion dollars Apple has in the bank argues that they've got something on the ball.
 
For now iOS products are the crown jewel ... yet soon VERY soon in the mobile world the iOS product parts will not allow for such high margins per unit sold or even per 10'000 unit sold.

Motorola almost tanked for similar attitude in their mobile lineup being stagnant in hardware & RAZR design being over used.
SE as well had to seriously revamp their staff and vision.
Nokia as well and THEY have the largest access to parts/chipsets in the highest volumes to rack out the best margins.

Those Taiwanese OEMs are going to get smart and wise soon enough!! Apple is beginning to back themselves in a corner relying so heavily with Foxconn. They'll get gready on Apple.

YES I completely agree with the 13" with regards to Students but also for adults that live active lives and travel very often or just are more "mobile" daily travelling with their laptops. High end resolution is not so important as having 1 machine to live up to the potential of doing a wide range of work.
I don't think I'm liking the direction of where Lion is heading - almost like a fools OS on the candy outer-shell. I cannot see Bertrand Serley as being the head of this direction. Sure I love OS X and I'll upgrade but grudgingly so with current news about it.

I'm still holding out hope that the Intel HD 3000 is on par with the NVidia 320M. Right now NVidia has no interest with laptop IGP type GPU's ... their all about Tegra2/2.5/3 going forward since their patent deal agreement with Intel means Intel cannot touch that Tegra technology.

Oh and this talk about Apple couldn't use a dedicated GPU with Intel Core i (2nd gen chips) is bullcrap as Samsung, Asus, and a few others have ALREADY begun doing so in their lineups - be damned with Intel. Apple just has a tighter restriction with Intel going in bed with ThunderBolt and with no AMD focus backup to the 320M/330M in terms of efficiency and power.
 
You either get SB+Intel HD or C2D+whatever else. Personally, a notebook launched in 2011 with processors from '08 would be a total joke.
 
The fact that its a 13" MacbookPRO says enough. If someone wants a mac to browse the net or do basic tasks they should buy an air or a macbook. By calling it a PRO they are implying that it should be up to par with the 15 and 17 if not damn close. I think the refresh is great, but they should have alteast put a HD 6500 in there ? Even the 330M was a little bit weak for "pro" status IMO.

Still a beautiful laptop though.
 
For now iOS products are the crown jewel ... yet soon VERY soon in the mobile world the iOS product parts will not allow for such high margins per unit sold or even per 10'000 unit sold.

Motorola almost tanked for similar attitude in their mobile lineup being stagnant in hardware & RAZR design being over used.
SE as well had to seriously revamp their staff and vision.
Nokia as well and THEY have the largest access to parts/chipsets in the highest volumes to rack out the best margins.

Those Taiwanese OEMs are going to get smart and wise soon enough!! Apple is beginning to back themselves in a corner relying so heavily with Foxconn. They'll get gready on Apple.

YES I completely agree with the 13" with regards to Students but also for adults that live active lives and travel very often or just are more "mobile" daily travelling with their laptops. High end resolution is not so important as having 1 machine to live up to the potential of doing a wide range of work.
I don't think I'm liking the direction of where Lion is heading - almost like a fools OS on the candy outer-shell. I cannot see Bertrand Serley as being the head of this direction. Sure I love OS X and I'll upgrade but grudgingly so with current news about it.

I'm still holding out hope that the Intel HD 3000 is on par with the NVidia 320M. Right now NVidia has no interest with laptop IGP type GPU's ... their all about Tegra2/2.5/3 going forward since their patent deal agreement with Intel means Intel cannot touch that Tegra technology.

Oh and this talk about Apple couldn't use a dedicated GPU with Intel Core i (2nd gen chips) is bullcrap as Samsung, Asus, and a few others have ALREADY begun doing so in their lineups - be damned with Intel. Apple just has a tighter restriction with Intel going in bed with ThunderBolt and with no AMD focus backup to the 320M/330M in terms of efficiency and power.

Geez that's a lot of speculation based on one missing wished for item.

After reading a lot of these posts where people complain about the new MBPs. There are some valid concerns but everyone seems a bit missing one of the interesting things about the new MBPs.

Apple's stepping up their updates. The same bits and pieces that makes up the new MBPs just came out for PC laptops too. Apple's no longer behind on that front. Be happy about that.
 
Apple's stepping up their updates. The same bits and pieces that makes up the new MBPs just came out for PC laptops too. Apple's no longer behind on that front. Be happy about that.

Apple is no longer selling MBPs with yesterday's hardware at tomorrow's prices. Its selling today's hardware at tomorrow's prices :p Going from c2d to SB i7 is huge leap. Still not happy? The next refresh is just another 10 months away.
 
The fact that its a 13" MacbookPRO says enough. If someone wants a mac to browse the net or do basic tasks they should buy an air or a macbook. By calling it a PRO they are implying that it should be up to par with the 15 and 17 if not damn close. I think the refresh is great, but they should have alteast put a HD 6500 in there ? Even the 330M was a little bit weak for "pro" status IMO.

Still a beautiful laptop though.

A lot of your post makes no sense. How on earth does naming it MacBook Pro imply it should be on par with 15" notebooks? You're honestly saying a 13" Notebook with a 2.7GHz dual core i7 (which for the record, is more powerful then all the processors of the last generation) should not be considered a Professional product?

Honestly, it's a 13" Notebook, you HAVE to make compromises at that size. Deal with it.
 
You do realize that for most of those students Facebook games are all they play, right?

Also, Apple can't update the Mac Pro until LGA 2011 comes out in the fourth quarter of this year.

It's not about being an apologist. I've used Macs for sixteen years now, and Apple has consistently improved upon their machines and software. Are they slower now? Sure. Are they removing some product lines? Sure. Does that mean they hate their users or are out of touch with them? The fifty-plus billion dollars Apple has in the bank argues that they've got something on the ball.


That's a very arrogant view to take. I've been playing all sorts of games on my mid-2009 13" MBP, from Mass Effect 2 to New Vegas to Street Fighter IV and so on.
 
If I were to buy one today, it would be the high end 15" anti glare. But I challenge you to price that out, and compare it to other products on the market. Take away OSX & Windows. Think of it as just hardware for the dollar. Then think about it from the switchers position the wants the dedicated GPU. Then think about how many lost sales and boosted interest in OSX has been lost. Then think about all the high end developers Apple could have had making games or other software.
.

um, I did what you asked, speced out a alienware m15x as close as possible, and it was just over 2800 excluding taxes. Plus even its highest end cpu is much slower than that of the highend 15 inch macbook pro and the gpu is only slightly better according to my research. The elienware is also about as think as 2 macbook pros, and has pretty sad battery life. I've always thought that macbook pros were overpriced, but with this refresh I am picking up the top end 15inch next week, the thing bench marks about 600 points more than a mid 2009 mac pro (quad) and is as only about 700 points shy of the 2009 mac pro 8 core. It also beats a 2008 8core mac pro pretty easily, according to some research on geekbench.

This thing, with its power, portability and its build quality is easily worth the money for me now.
 
A lot of your post makes no sense. How on earth does naming it MacBook Pro imply it should be on par with 15" notebooks? You're honestly saying a 13" Notebook with a 2.7GHz dual core i7 (which for the record, is more powerful then all the processors of the last generation) should not be considered a Professional product?

Honestly, it's a 13" Notebook, you HAVE to make compromises at that size. Deal with it.

So 13" means you there is NO way you can utilize a matte screen? Sure didn't seem to stop the 12" Powerbook.
 
LOL, I laugh at people here thinking that the only problem with intel's GMA is the bad performance. Have you guys experienced their extremely crappy drivers at all?

Apple mad a BIG mistake adopting Intel's new GMA and I feel sorry for anyone who bought the MBP13 2011.
 
LOL, I laugh at people here thinking that the only problem with intel's GMA is the bad performance. Have you guys experienced their extremely crappy drivers at all?

Apple mad a BIG mistake adopting Intel's new GMA and I feel sorry for anyone who bought the MBP13 2011.

What problems? Curious...
 
Last year when refresh was out, almost everyone complained about the C2D chip on the 13", and all of them said that they'll trade the discrete graphics on behalf of a better processor (i5 or i7).

Now they've what they asked for 10 months ago, sandys i5 and i7 on the 13", with them there's left no space for a dedicated GPU.

So, come on, want a faster processor and dedicated GPU?, get a 15". Want the portability of the 13"?, so you have to deal with the 3000 HD.

BTW, I was waiting for at least an i5 on the 13" last year, and because they didn't show up I decided to buy the base 15", to be honest, best decision ever, no way I go back to 13" those extra 2" of screen are a big difference.
 
Who actually buys a 13" notebook for the GPU? I have an idea: if you need to do graphics lifting, buy something that isn't an ultramobile laptop.

It is very cool to have the IGP and CPU functioning cooperatively in the interest of battery life and user experience. It makes a great deal of sense in this application.
 
LOL, I laugh at people here thinking that the only problem with intel's GMA is the bad performance. Have you guys experienced their extremely crappy drivers at all?

Apple mad a BIG mistake adopting Intel's new GMA and I feel sorry for anyone who bought the MBP13 2011.

why feel sorry, not everyone needs anything special in the graphics department, I couldn't make due with it, but for most people that I know an improvment in cpu of this magnitude is great.

and what did you want them to do? keep the old C2D's? people just cant be pleased anymore, they want rid of the core 2 duos, and when apple does that they just complain about the sacrifices that had to be made. These sacrifices were also obvious before the changes where even made, we already knew that if they upped the cpu we were stuck with intel graphics.
 
That's a very arrogant view to take. I've been playing all sorts of games on my mid-2009 13" MBP, from Mass Effect 2 to New Vegas to Street Fighter IV and so on.
You might personally, but most people who play all of those games either use a dedicated gaming PC or have a higher-end Mac to do so on. People who go for a 13" MacBook/Pro generally don't need more GPU power, don't want it, or don't care. As always there will be exceptions to the general rule, but the general case is pretty much the way to bet.
 
I'm still holding out hope that the Intel HD 3000 is on par with the NVidia 320M. Right now NVidia has no interest with laptop IGP type GPU's ... their all about Tegra2/2.5/3 going forward since their patent deal agreement with Intel means Intel cannot touch that Tegra technology.
NVidia has no interest with any sort of IGP chipsets at all because Intel barred them from making IGP chips such as the 320m for the Core i architecture, and there's little market for non-AMD IGP's in AMD-based systems.

Oh and this talk about Apple couldn't use a dedicated GPU with Intel Core i (2nd gen chips) is bullcrap as Samsung, Asus, and a few others have ALREADY begun doing so in their lineups - be damned with Intel. Apple just has a tighter restriction with Intel going in bed with ThunderBolt and with no AMD focus backup to the 320M/330M in terms of efficiency and power.
You're neglecting the fact that Apple is indeed using dedicated AMD GPU's with their higher-end notebooks. In fact, the 320m/330m was NOT a dedicated GPU, but a complete I/O chipset with IGP, which is specifically barred by Intel for the Core i series CPU's, primarily because Intel intends to actually integrate the IGP onto the CPU itself in most applications.

That's a very arrogant view to take. I've been playing all sorts of games on my mid-2009 13" MBP, from Mass Effect 2 to New Vegas to Street Fighter IV and so on.
You are also sadly not of the majority of students who would be looking to buy 13" MBP. What he said is very much on the mark, as the price/performance crown for ~13" notebooks has always belonged to someone other than Apple in recent history, and most serious gamers favor absolute performance for the money at a given size over factors such as longevity, system weight, industrial design, and battery life. Apple always tries to go for a balance of performance, portability and overall design (aesthetic as well as engineering), but that means that compromises have to be made on all fronts to create a balanced package. One issue being that 13" simply isn't big enough to fit a dedicated GPU alongside a large enough battery to squeeze out decent battery life in addition to handling heat dissipation issues. At less than 1" thin, the 13" barely has enough cooling capacity to handle the CPU and I/O chipset, let alone having to deal with a separate GPU. The 320m was an I/O chipset with IGP, so it reduced the number of significant heat sources and required footprint on the logic board. Since they can no longer do that, Intel graphics integrated onto the CPU is the only realistic, up-to-date option Apple had.

In the case of the new 13" MBP, the target demographic is getting more of what they need and less of what they don't by trading graphics power for raw processing power. Intel's new IGP is enough for everyday tasks that involve heavy 2D multi-media, even though it is lacking in 3D graphical prowess.
 
why feel sorry, not everyone needs anything special in the graphics department, I couldn't make due with it, but for most people that I know an improvment in cpu of this magnitude is great.

and what did you want them to do? keep the old C2D's? people just cant be pleased anymore, they want rid of the core 2 duos, and when apple does that they just complain about the sacrifices that had to be made. These sacrifices were also obvious before the changes where even made, we already knew that if they upped the cpu we were stuck with intel graphics.

Yes I know that and it's sad. I just hope Intel get their act together because the predecessors before HD3000 had REALLY bad drivers.

Drivers and stability is top priory before performance, even for casual usage.
 
i dont think it matters to joe average....

i was in richmond b.c. cdn apple store tonight...im seeing lots of people around the mbp's and im thinking "ah cool they must be playing with the new ones".....nope,they were the older ones...not a new one in sight......so i ask one of the sales person "why no new ones out"...he said "they look the same and most people wont notice difference"...i was thinking he was nuts...but on way home i got to thinking that joe average buyer probably really wont care,and apple will continue to sell a ton of these..............
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.