LG Named as Supplier of iPhone 8's 3D Facial Recognition System for Front-Facing Camera

[macduke]

Again, no they did not. Not one bit. That German computer club had published how to fake an RF type sensor back in 2000 or so. That's one of the reasons everyone stopped using fingerprint sensors.

They didn't stop. Before the Touch ID came out, Samsung and others were putting the easily compromised fingerprint sensors into their phones. Apple's solution was more secure (and faster) because it scans subdermal layers from multiple angles. I don't remember reading about it being hacked for some time, and even so it takes time to do. I'm not worried about some spies targeting me. I'm worried about something like Samsung where you can hold up a picture of a person on another phone and it accepts that! Any idiot can hack that, and that's what I'm worried about. I'm not saying Touch ID is absolutely secure, I'm saying it's secure enough that regular people don't have to worry about it. Samsung's solution isn't, so I was just hoping they've made some massive improvements so it's secure enough for most people. What I'd really like to see most is two factor biological authentication, with Touch ID under the display in addition to an iris scan.

 

[scrapesleon]

is anyone aware that the facial technology is not coming directly from Apple but from another company

 

[0924487]

Good luck unlocking your phone in the dark

Optical sensors do work in the dark environment. Just shine pulses of infrared beams and use the dual lens to capture the 3D image of your face along with its thermal signature. This can also work with iris scanning in combination. From an engineering perspective, this is doable.
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For those that think TouchID is moving to the back, I would say that the change to "Press to Unlock" in iOS 10 pretty much eliminates that possibility.

They can change that next month on IOS 11. WWDC 17 is coming in June. So not a solid evidence.
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I most certainly DO NOT agree.

• I often unlock the phone when it's far away from my face and is not aimed directly at it.
• I often have to unlock it in poor lighting/darkness
• whenever I use Apple pay (that's several times a day every day) I need Touch ID and the phone is far away from my face.

Even if the 3d sensing system works perfectly I still want Touch ID. No Touch ID on the front=no sale for me.

All of your problems can be solved by software integrations.

• Why would you unlock your phone if you aren't planning on looking at the screen? Just use Siri. If you do at a distance, as long as you can see the screen, it can see you too.
• Infrared facial recognition and iris scanning are NOT passive lighting sensors, thus works in black box situations
• For Apple pay, we can change the paying mechanism. Hold and drag the virtual home button unlock with your face, continue to hold the on-screen button, tab the POS terminal to complete the transaction.

 

[44267547]

is anyone aware that the facial technology is not coming directly from Apple but from another company

Is this a rhetorical question? Because you do realize the thread title states LG will be the supplier for the 3D facial recognition.

 

[CarpalMac]

Good luck unlocking your phone in the dark

If only there was some sort of camera that would work in the dark. Like vision, but at night.

 

[himanshumodi]

Do you mean the touch ID on the Back? I've thought about this and saw it on an Android and to me, it would be a drawback - my phone is always on my desk at work and having the touch id on the front allows me to, well, just place my finger on the phone to open it - the other way I would be required to lift the phone every time. People who are handicap might find the touch ID sensor limiting if it was on the back. Maybe two styles is the solution.
Having facial and IRIS recognition would be helpful for the FBI.

Well, I guess I am the only one, but I generally keep my phone facing down on my desk, to avoid the distractions of notifications. So the fingerprint sensor on the back... I wonder if it will actually be better for me. The potential problems I see are:

1. Trying to home in on the sensor - especially if it is a smallish area, size of the logo.
2. If they keep a larger area on the back as a sensor, then the cases would required a large cutout behind. And that would look horrible! I do need a case, because I am one of those guys who drop their phone quite a bit!

 

[recoil80]

I most certainly DO NOT agree.

• I often unlock the phone when it's far away from my face and is not aimed directly at it.
• I often have to unlock it in poor lighting/darkness
• whenever I use Apple pay (that's several times a day every day) I need Touch ID and the phone is far away from my face.

Even if the 3d sensing system works perfectly I still want Touch ID. No Touch ID on the front=no sale for me.

Ditto.
And is not a matter of being in a dark environment, even if they use lasers to detect the face the phone needs do be aimed directly at it and most of the times it is not the case, at least for me. For example at office the phone is always lying on the desk, I unlock it with touchID for a quick glance and I don't always grab it and get it close to my face.
And what about sunglasses? Does it work with them?
For Apple pay I prefer touchID instead of holding the phone like I'm taking a selfie just to make a payment. It ridiculous.

 

[ValO]

For those that think TouchID is moving to the back, I would say that the change to "Press to Unlock" in iOS 10 pretty much eliminates that possibility.

Why?
You can press the virtual on-screen button and the system/iphone lets facial recog kick in, and that unlocks the device.
Again: if it is reliable, wideangled with headtracking(so you don' t have to put your face exactly in front of the iphone), and it works in dark environments, and is very fast, there is no difference.
And for Apple pay:if touchid is on the back, you can press that while you put it in front of the terminal.

If that all works and it is reliable, you wouldn' t notice the difference.
The main reason for people wanting no touchid on the back is:
1. It is a change
2. S8 and other androids have it on the back.

 

[GoodWheaties]

They can change that next month on IOS 11. WWDC 17 is coming in June. So not a solid evidence.

Apple doesn't do things willy-nilly. They had "Slide-to-Unlock" for how many years? And as for "Face Unlock” I look at my lock screen 100 times a day just to check the time and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Pretty sure that would get annoying real quick.

 

[ValO]

Apple doesn't do things willy-nilly. They had "Slide-to-Unlock" for how many years? And as for "Face Unlock” I look at my lock screen 100 times a day just to check the time and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Pretty sure that would get annoying real quick.

Why? If facial recog only kicks in when you press the homebutton, you will still be able to look at the time, without unlocking it.

 

[kdarling]

They didn't stop. Before the Touch ID came out, Samsung and others were putting the easily compromised fingerprint sensors into their phones.

Sorry, a lot of history got edited out on my side to save space

I was speaking about PDAs, which begat smartphones later on. Fingerprint readers were getting quite popular around the turn of the century, as were gesture based unlocks (yes, the forerunner to the insecure swipe-to-unlock).

After it was shown how easy it was to fool such sensors, they fell out of favor for use as government and enterprise security. They later came back as more of a "good enough for consumers" convenience factor.

Apple's solution was more secure (and faster) because it scans subdermal layers from multiple angles.

Nope, it's the same sensor technology that the German computer club faked out almost seventeen years ago. It doesn't even have any real liveness validation like body temperature or pulse checks.

A fake slightly 3D molded print licked with saliva works fine. What Apple's PR machine meant was that it's more secure than using simple tech like photographic sensors.

I don't remember reading about it being hacked for some time, and even so it takes time to do.

Touch Id was hacked in two days. They even later showed how fake prints could be made from high resolution photos of someone.

And no, it doesn't take that much time or even special gear to make fake prints. That was ignorant talk from people who have never made anything in their life, especially circuit boards.

I'm not worried about some spies targeting me. I'm worried about something like Samsung where you can hold up a picture of a person on another phone and it accepts that! Any idiot can hack that, and that's what I'm worried about. I'm not saying Touch ID is absolutely secure, I'm saying it's secure enough that regular people don't have to worry about it. Samsung's solution isn't, so I was just hoping they've made some massive improvements so it's secure enough for most people. What I'd really like to see most is two factor biological authentication, with Touch ID under the display in addition to an iris scan.

I agree.

 

[Tech198]

would pretty worried if the from of the iPhone had two cameras.....

Touch Id was hacked in two days. They even later showed how fake prints could be made from high resolution photos of someone.

And no, it doesn't take that much time or even special gear to make fake prints. That was ignorant talk from people who have never made anything in their life, especially circuit boards.

And yet passwords, a step *back* from finger print technology, is still favorable.. if random enough

Its interesting how every other tech fails, but its only the "least secure" (passwords) but random passwords still hold true today as dominant player. and always will be. Also says, only the new stuff will be hacked as well.

 

[0924487]

Apple doesn't do things willy-nilly. They had "Slide-to-Unlock" for how many years? And as for "Face Unlock” I look at my lock screen 100 times a day just to check the time and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Pretty sure that would get annoying real quick.

Again, this can be solved by UI design. What if we let customers either press power button or force press the screen to wake the iPhone, then show a dynamic UI on screen that looks like a circle that zooms, at the same time 3D sense kicks in and verifies the user, if success, UI changes from white to opaque, then zooms out to show a less opaque thin film UI, then user can swipe the think film to slice it open, then UI graphics kicks in and zooms out completely. At the same time, decomposed icons fly in with ice and snow effect from all directions and defrost once assembled to complete the unlocking routine.

 

[Priebe109]

Good luck unlocking your phone in the dark

doesn't have to be based on visible light you genius

 

[bbplayer5]

Good luck unlocking your phone in the dark

Galaxy S8 can unlock my phone in pitch black with the iris scanner. Maybe the 3D facial recognition can see in the dark too lol