I'm still baffled why Apple can't release a 5K display that they already sell that's the basis for the 5K iMac.
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LG UltraFine 5K Display Works at Lower Resolution With Older Macs Using Adapter
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"apparently it works with TB2 (with the apple adapter which is not DP compatible"
I thought TB2 IS DP 1.2 compatible.
I have not seen an in debpt review of the nMBP to estabilish wheather it supports Alt mode over USB-C, and if it does, which version. We know the AMD Polaris chip supports DP 1.3/1.4, but the Intel TB3 controller does not (until PCIe v4.0) only DP 1.2. There is no technical reason why you could not route DP 1.3 from the polaris chip to the type-c port and use Alt mode to output it. If on the other hand, you plugged a TB3 device into the type-c port, the sytem will route from the Intel TB3 chipset.
It does not make sence for Apple to include a DP 1.3 compatible chip, and not to use it's capability over an existing port (type-c). Why limit a new, future looking laptop, with DP 1.2 when 1.3/1.4 is available on-boad?
The only way to be sure, is to try and connect the way I've outlined.
It's also possible to connect the Dell 5k monitor (which uses 2x DP 1.2) using TB3 to 2x DP1.2 adaptor:
https://www.startech.com/uk/AV/Converters/Video/thunderbolt-3-to-dual-displayport~TB32DP2
I think the Dell OLED minitor UP3017Q requires DP1.3 type-c too. It would be a good test - if it was available.
BenQ's 4K HDR monitor requires DP 1.4
http://m.benq.com/news/1480997959_3_1037.html (towards the bottom of the page).
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I did buy it on day 1 back then. Yes, I am frustrated that I can't run 5k Displays with it, seriously am!
But It's not apples fault that it took so long for the display port standard to get up to speed.
Apples fault was that they fooled us with their 4k display advertisement back then. Everybody thought 4k is it, but only after a few months we realised that for a great 27" retina experience, 5k is needed, and that it will not be possible with this machine.
The Intel TB3 controller is also doing the Alt Mode switching. Thus, as long as the controller is limited to DP1.2, there won't be DP 1.3 in Alt Mode.
This is where I am really confused then...the rMB does have USB-C...and it is capable of driving a 4K display (we have one in the lab)...so why can't it supply a 4K feed to the 5K monitor in the same way that the MBPros can?
I thought USB-C was meant to make everything *simpler*...
Why couldn't the same method be implemented tho?
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oopsy, there's not DP2.0 yet, eh? Thanks for clearing things further. Anyway, i think its pretty obvious why it works as it works, people just complain without understanding tech behind it
Because it's literally a different number of pixels.
Hopefully this illustration will help. Each small square represents a pixel.
On a MacBook Pro in default scaling mode you see this:
When you put it in larger text mode, it redraws the interface at a bigger size - but the screen has the same number of pixels. The graphics card had the ability to scale the objects into the new size with the same total number of pixels, creating this.
Note the 'a' is bigger and now consists of more pixels (covers more squares) than the default scaling.
On the 5K display, on the other hand, the scaling cannot be completed because the older Macs can only put out a maximum of 4K. Therefore, at 4K we see this:
And displaying 4K on a 5K screen means the image must be stretched rather than scaled:
It's the same number of pixels, stretched to fill a larger area. Hence the image is less sharp.
(Alternatively, the image can be stretched to 5K size and have interface elements kept the original size. The same result happens: inferior image quality, because the quantity of pixels has not increased.)
Hopefully that explains it.
TL;DR: The display can't use the MacBook Pro method because scaling requires a newer and more powerful graphics card and can't be done by the display.
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For me, the better option is to delay the purchase of a new MBP until
1, They validate and install the battery they originally intended.
2, They add more memory as many have been asking for.
3, They improve the graphics well beyond what they offer now
4, The price falls to a more economically realistic price point.
5, Perhaps new processors by that time also.
By that time, perhaps 12 months from now there will also be more USB-C/Thunderbolt3 displays to choose from.
I've decided to repurpose my TB-Dispaly and replace it with a LG 31MU97Z-B for true 4K on my late2015 MBP and sit it out.
I use lots of Macs in work 4 & 5 K iMacs, nMP, MBP's and for the price point v's features the new MBP just isn't appealing to me.
1, They validate and install the battery they originally intended.
2, They add more memory as many have been asking for.
3, They improve the graphics well beyond what they offer now
4, The price falls to a more economically realistic price point.
5, Perhaps new processors by that time also.
By that time, perhaps 12 months from now there will also be more USB-C/Thunderbolt3 displays to choose from.
I've decided to repurpose my TB-Dispaly and replace it with a LG 31MU97Z-B for true 4K on my late2015 MBP and sit it out.
I use lots of Macs in work 4 & 5 K iMacs, nMP, MBP's and for the price point v's features the new MBP just isn't appealing to me.
What if we don't care about games (which I don't) and just want our work apps to look nice?
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Well, older tech works with regular (i.e. not Thunderbolt 3) 5K monitors. The problem with Apple's hardware is these standards that keep changing. TB2 has barely been in existence for very long, and it's already been dumped. TB3 support is sketchy even on the rMBP. This is annoying and confusing for consumers. I'm not touching TB3 with a 10' pole until it's been stable for a few years.
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Well the good thing is that 4K monitors are getting higher and higher refresh rates. I'd say give it a year or two and the shift over to 4K will be there
Oh... Right. There's no way for older macs to address physical pixels on the 5K display, meaning scaling can't do anything because you can't physically address those pixels. Yeah. Sorry. Slipped my mind there. You can do any scaling you want on a retina display as long as you have access to all pixels (obv). And if you could theoretically perform scaling on the display (via internal GPU), you'd still need a @2x output from the video card to the screen.
Yeah. ****.
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It's not been dumped? You can still use it. That's like saying by implementing USB3.0, USB2.0 has been dumped. Or by implementing display port, HDMI has been dumped. It still serves its purpose for certain applications. Some things are bleeding edge. TB3 has succeeded TB2, why is it wierd that interface get upgraded? Why aren't you complaning about USB2.0?
TB3 will be stable for a few years if early adopters use it. Else it cant be stable.
It's been dumped in that nobody will make anything for it anymore. Like, why can't TB2 drive a 5K display if it came out when 5K displays were available? Besides TB2 lacking this feature, it's confusing that there are 3 versions of Thunderbolt within 6 years, plus revision versions that actually matter for some devices (see: https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/03/2016-macbook-pro-thunderbolt-compatibility-issues/). Meanwhile, USB 2.0 was widely used for ~10 years before being upgraded, and now USB 3.0 has been the same since TB1 came out. Also, USB 2.0 is still being used, and it can plug into a USB 3.0 port. And USB 3.0 device can often plug into a USB 2.0 port (though with limited functionality).
Worse, as someone mentioned above, the latest MacBook has USB-C, which looks the same as that in the rMBP but doesn't have TB3 underneath and therefore cannot drive 5K. I'll bet most consumers won't know that. This is more of a problem with USB-C decoupling the connector and the protocol, which is a good idea but means that the industry will have to take time to settle. So, in the meantime, ten-foot pole... or at least no expensive investment in accessories that use these new ports/protocols. There are 5K displays than run on 2 DP 1.2 cables just fine.
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Apart of Apple intentionally excluding Thunderbolt 3 devices like all eGPU enclosures et al, yes, it is very stupid to ignore the 20 years old USB 1/2/3 standard. There are plenty of USB 2/3 devices on the market, but hardly USB-C devices, which are faulty by the way, 10Gbps issue: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-info-repository.1866301/page-8#post-24075060
I understand what you mean. How do you think it would be better to handle this? I like the idea of having a single port that can transform into anything I need at that moment, and when MB gets upgraded to TB3 that will be amazing. I was super-excited for TB because that means you can have everything you work with external, meaning its super simple to replace your computer and plug into an existing setup.
I do agree TB roadmap has been hectic. If USB3.0 connector stays for 10 years at least, then this is nothing short of amazing. I can swap laptops with all my peripherals lasting, not to mention its super simple to collab. Need to access my system? Sure, here's a single cable you have to connect to access basically everything. That's pretty neat.
So I want to have 2 UltraFine 5K displays, but I am holding off on the 2016 MBPro and opting for the 2015 MBPro
Am I correct in assuming I can run 2 of the 5K displays from the two Thunderbolt ports including on the 2015 MBPro at 4K resolution?
I don't mind 4K until I can purchase the MBPro with a better battery life and other kinks worked out
Am I correct in assuming I can run 2 of the 5K displays from the two Thunderbolt ports including on the 2015 MBPro at 4K resolution?
I don't mind 4K until I can purchase the MBPro with a better battery life and other kinks worked out
If you have that kind of expendable income, why not just buy a new MacBook Pro and then buy the refreshed model when it comes out? Most people aren't even having issues with them.
Nope, not correct. The only Macs that can drive either the 4K or the 5K monitors are one of their laptops with a USB-C port and only the 2016 MBPs can drive the 5K monitor at all.
The 2015 MBP can support a 5K monitor, but not the LG Ultrafines. It'll need both Thunderbolt ports to do so though.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206587
I'm sorry, but this is wrong. As per the support article for the 5K display on the Apple website, you can use an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter and a Thunderbolt cable to use the 5K display at 4K resolution using an older Mac with Thunderbolt ports and 4K support.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448
He uses an iPad Pro as his primary design machine, of course. That's the computer replacement for everyone.