LG UltraFine 5K Display Works at Lower Resolution With Older Macs Using Adapter

[Felix01]

Doesn't exist mate. It's either Mid 2014 or Early 2015. Probably the latter.

Au contraire, that came directly from the Apple support document:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207448

3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz

• Mac Pro (Late 2013)*
• MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) and later
• MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2014) and later
• iMac (Retina, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later
• iMac (Retina, 21.5-inch, Late 2015)
• iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
• MacBook Air (13-inch, Early 2015)
• MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)

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The 5K iMac should be able to run this at 5K no problem. Not sure about the 4K.

How do you figure? No currently-shipping iMac has a Thunderbolt 3 port (which you need to get the bandwidth for 5K).

 

[bill44]

I am very curious as to how they managed 5K 60Hz with a single cable as well, my bet is that it uses similar trick as the Dell in taking dual streams of DP 1.2. The thing is that with the MBP2016, with a single TB3 connection you are at max getting DP 1.2 as Intel decided to not put 1.3 in TB3 specs yet, despite the MBP already using Skylake.

Now if my guess is right, the difference is that the Dell exposes the dual links in form of 2 user accessible DP ports at the back panel, whereas the LG simply internally runs the dual DP 1.2 streams over a single TB3 stream. If that is the case, it would mean LG or some other manufacturer could in theory make a board which accepts both dual-DP1.2, and a TB3 input. But I do agree with you we may need to wait for the teardown to happen, as there may be Apple trickery going on, similar to how they managed Thunderbolt display daisy chain.

It's more likely it uses DisplayPort 1.3 Alt mode signalling. 2016 MBP with Polaris chip should support DP 1.3 alt mode using Type-C connector. LG monitor should internally support DP 1.3. Thunderbolt 3 only comes in when you need power delivery (which Type-C connector supports). TB3 does not support DP 1.3, only DP 1.2 or (I assume in this LG case) a proprietary MST DP 1.2x2.

The only way to test this, is to connect the LG 5K monitor to a DP 1.3 capable PC using a DP 1.3 to Type-C cable. If it works (minus power delivery), then it's a DP 1.3 Monitor.
Alternatively, connect a 5K DP 1.3 monitor (several coming onto the market right now) to a 2016 MBP and see if the MBP supports DP 1.3 Alt mode over Type-C (ignore TB3 bits).


BTW, as far as 4K is concerned, it's best to wait for the new LG monitor with HDR capability.

"The 32UD99 is a 32-inch, 3840 x 2160 IPS display that offers 95% DCI-P3 color and HDR10 support."

 

[ice29]

@bill44 doubt this is a DP1.3 monitor, apparently it works with TB2 (with the apple adapter which is not DP compatible) so it should be pure TB display. Can't imagine it supports all DP1.3 for the 15" MBP16 (with AMD), 2xDP1.2 over TB3 with 13" MBP16 and 1xDP1.2 over TB2 on the rest.
I would say they just use the same technology as the 5k iMac (already read it somewhere in detail, forgot where) - 2xDP1.2 "tunneled" over TB3, which practically makes this LG compatible only with Apple devices...

 

[alexanderasher]

Okay great. Now tell me if I can use this on a real computer because Apple's hardware stopped cutting it years ago.

 

[doctor-don]

Using an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and a Thunderbolt cable, the LG 5K Display can be used at 4K resolution with older iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac mini models.

Really?

REALLY?

My Apple Cinema HD Display has been functioning well for the past 8+ years. I see no reason to buy a replacement just for the sake of keeping up with the crowd.
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Boycotting this third party travesty until Apple brings back a proper refreshed 5k Thunderbolt Display.

How many years can you hold your breath?

 

[ABCDEF-Hex]

Thanks to all of the posters who provided much needed information on technical limitations and capabilities.
Too bad we have to skim over lots of negative comments to find some answers.

 

[dannys1]

Yup - Thunderbolt 3 only supports DisplayPort 1.2 which can't support single-stream 5k@60Hz - but it can cram two DisplayPort 1.2 streams down a single cable.

Once upon a time I saw this confirmed on an Intel website, but I can't find that again, although if you read between the lines on this (PDF) its pretty clear.



AFAIK the LG/Apple Ultrafine is the only single-cable 5k display on the market, so you're kinda extrapolating from a single data point there... The other 5k displays are the Dell (which seems to be discontinued) and HP which both use dual DisplayPort 1.2.

Plus (see above) since single-stream 5k@60Hz needs DisplayPort 1.3 and Thunderbolt only supports DisplayPort 1.2 then its almost certain that the LG is also MST once you get past the Thunderbolt controller.

Unless there's a bone fide display designing engineer in the audience who wants to enlighten us, there's absolutely no reason to believe that it is technically impossible to make a 5k display that can run off both TB3 and dual DisplayPort.

In any case, they could have added a single MiniDisplayPort input that just supported lower resolutions.

Most other mid/high-end displays support multiple inputs (including the Dell 5k and LG's own USB-C 4k display) - its always been a weak spot of Apple's displays, which they seem to have passed on to LG.

Running two Thunderbolt cables form a single MacBook Pro isn't very "dockable" though is it - plus you'd have to have the Magsafe running to it as well...so three cables - and you lot are all moaning about dongles and adapters (that you don't even need) as to some excuse why something sucks.

Not to mention the extra engineering needed to do that plus the extra ports on the back which would have confusing for many (looks like it has two Thunderbolt 2 ports it doesn't actually have) it'd have been a messy implementation at best when it was designed as a USB-C T3 monitor anyway. One cable with PD.

 

[smirking]

My Apple Cinema HD Display has been functioning well for the past 8+ years. I see no reason to buy a replacement just for the sake of keeping up with the crowd.

There is very real reason for some people to be snapping up these 5K displays and the new tbMBPs and it's not because they're thrilled about what they're buying or want to keep up with the crowd. I'm sure more than a few are, of course.

I'm getting both a tbMBP and LG Ultrafine 5K. All of my work is done on these things. I've been needing an upgrade for at least a year if not longer, but I've held out because I didn't want to invest in equipment before a truly capable 5K capable laptop came out and when it finally did, it wasn't what I wanted, but it was good enough and it's stupid for me to keep waiting when my livelihood depends on this. Also the 5K monitor, ugliness aside, is exactly what my eyes have been screaming for.

I too have an Apple Cinema Display. It's the 30" beauty. Mine's going on about 10 years. I love this thing, but if I can get one more hour out of each day with less eyestrain out of a 5K monitor, it'll be worth the investment.

 

[MH01]

Yes but it's still only 60Hz...sitting here with my two 144Hz monitors. If I turn down to 60Hz, it all gets noticeably slower.
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The 5K iMac should be able to run this at 5K no problem. Not sure about the 4K.

5K at 60mhz is where we are at, only the titan x pascal is finally getting to the point where we can run games at 60FPS.....some . I assume you run twin 1440p monitors ? 27"

 

[samdale67]

It does if you have one of the what, two or three, 5k displays that allow multiple signal inputs. You have to use both thunderbolt ports to get 5k using my computer... this doesn't allow for that.

Could someone confirm that the MacBook Pro 15" Mid 2015 with AMD Radeon R9 M370X will NOT work with this monitor at full rez?

 

[bryanw]

There has been some confusion as to whether the LG UltraFine 5K Display works with older Macs, but a new support document published today answers that question and makes it clear exactly which Macs can be used with the display and at what resolution.

At its full 5120 x 2880 resolution, the LG 5K display can only be used with Apple's latest 2016 MacBooks, which have Thunderbolt 3 support. That includes the 15-inch MacBook Pro, the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with no Touch Bar.

Using an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and a Thunderbolt cable, the LG 5K Display can be used at 4K resolution with older iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac mini models. A full list is below:

3840 x 2160 at 60Hz
- Mac Pro (Late 2013)
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) and later
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- MacBook Air (13-inch, Early 2015)
- MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)

3200 x 1800 at 60Hz
- Mac mini (Late 2014)

For the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, Apple recommends using the LG UltraFine 5K display as a second monitor as it might not turn on until the machines are booted into macOS. Features like Boot Picker and macOS Recovery may not work on the display when used with those machines.

Power delivery features are only available for Macs equipped with Thunderbolt 3, which means only the three newest MacBook Pro models will be able to charge through the display. Power is not delivered when connecting the display to a Mac using the Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, so on older Macs, a separate power supply will need to be used.

Apple started selling the LG 5K UltraFine Display this morning. While the first orders placed offered shipping estimates of three to five days, supplies were quickly exhausted. Orders placed now will ship out in two to four weeks.

Article Link: LG UltraFine 5K Display Works at Lower Resolution With Older Macs Using Adapter

There has been some confusion as to whether the LG UltraFine 5K Display works with older Macs, but a new support document published today answers that question and makes it clear exactly which Macs can be used with the display and at what resolution.

At its full 5120 x 2880 resolution, the LG 5K display can only be used with Apple's latest 2016 MacBooks, which have Thunderbolt 3 support. That includes the 15-inch MacBook Pro, the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with no Touch Bar.

Using an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and a Thunderbolt cable, the LG 5K Display can be used at 4K resolution with older iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac mini models. A full list is below:

3840 x 2160 at 60Hz
- Mac Pro (Late 2013)
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) and later
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- MacBook Air (13-inch, Early 2015)
- MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)

3200 x 1800 at 60Hz
- Mac mini (Late 2014)

For the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, Apple recommends using the LG UltraFine 5K display as a second monitor as it might not turn on until the machines are booted into macOS. Features like Boot Picker and macOS Recovery may not work on the display when used with those machines.

Power delivery features are only available for Macs equipped with Thunderbolt 3, which means only the three newest MacBook Pro models will be able to charge through the display. Power is not delivered when connecting the display to a Mac using the Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, so on older Macs, a separate power supply will need to be used.

Apple started selling the LG 5K UltraFine Display this morning. While the first orders placed offered shipping estimates of three to five days, supplies were quickly exhausted. Orders placed now will ship out in two to four weeks.

Article Link: LG UltraFine 5K Display Works at Lower Resolution With Older Macs Using Adapter

 

[pier]

5K at 60mhz

It's actually 60hz, not 60,000,000hz.

 

[SDAVE]

That's why I prefer standard interfaces like DisplayPort and USB though. It was the same old saga with USB and FireWire, the former was more compatible the later was better technically. TB is great but as an additional port not as the only port unless they can work out the backward compatibility issues. Also, why doesn't the display come with alternative connectivity built in?

Thunderbolt 3 via USB-C is standard...Even Windows laptops have it now.

You can transfer DisplayPort data via a TB3 connection (USB-C type connector) and many others, including USB3/2/1, FireWire, Ethernet, etc. etc.

Also eGPU is a TB3 standard from Intel, it's no more a "workaround".

 

[rdav]

Okay great. Now tell me if I can use this on a real computer because Apple's hardware stopped cutting it years ago.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to how well the Lg/Uf/5k works with Win/PCs, and not just the niche MBP(13).

 

[bryanw]

There has been some confusion as to whether the LG UltraFine 5K Display works with older Macs, but a new support document published today answers that question and makes it clear exactly which Macs can be used with the display and at what resolution.

At its full 5120 x 2880 resolution, the LG 5K display can only be used with Apple's latest 2016 MacBooks, which have Thunderbolt 3 support. That includes the 15-inch MacBook Pro, the 13-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar, and the 13-inch MacBook Pro with no Touch Bar.

Using an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter and a Thunderbolt cable, the LG 5K Display can be used at 4K resolution with older iMac, MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac mini models. A full list is below:

3840 x 2160 at 60Hz
- Mac Pro (Late 2013)
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2014) and later
- MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later
- iMac (Retina, 21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015)
- MacBook Air (13-inch, Early 2015)
- MacBook Air (11-inch, Early 2015)

3200 x 1800 at 60Hz
- Mac mini (Late 2014)

For the Mac mini and the Mac Pro, Apple recommends using the LG UltraFine 5K display as a second monitor as it might not turn on until the machines are booted into macOS. Features like Boot Picker and macOS Recovery may not work on the display when used with those machines.

Power delivery features are only available for Macs equipped with Thunderbolt 3, which means only the three newest MacBook Pro models will be able to charge through the display. Power is not delivered when connecting the display to a Mac using the Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, so on older Macs, a separate power supply will need to be used.

Apple started selling the LG 5K UltraFine Display this morning. While the first orders placed offered shipping estimates of three to five days, supplies were quickly exhausted. Orders placed now will ship out in two to four weeks.

Article Link: LG UltraFine 5K Display Works at Lower Resolution With Older Macs Using Adapter

[doublepost=1482332037][/doublepost]This is a pleasant surprise. According to the support document, the 5K display would work with my Mid-2014 MacBook Pro Retina albeit at lower 4k resolution. Upon checking support document for the LG 4K Ultrafine it does not say that these same older Macs work with it or is this an oversight. Can anybody clear this up for me as I wanted to get the less expensive 4k LG Ultrafine. I wouldn't mind plugging away with lesser resolution until I can afford to get one of new MacBook Pro's.

 

[citysnaps]

You are correct , I meant they could have added additional ports to the display to support their exsisting products still on sale . No reason it has 1xTB3 apart from being a partner product to the new MacBook Pro.

Sure they could have. But I suspect it was LG's view to support only new computers going forward as a 5K only display over TB 3, including supporting the 3 built-in downstream USB C ports, audio, and its webcam - all over a single cable. The fact that it is also possible to support other computers with TB 2 adapters at 4K may have mattered little to LG not being part of their plans and roadmap.

And that would be especially true if it meant the display's USB-C/audio/webcam features would not be available over existing TB 2 protocols.

 

[Chancha]

Could someone confirm that the MacBook Pro 15" Mid 2015 with AMD Radeon R9 M370X will NOT work with this monitor at full rez?

It seems to be technically impossible at this point. Your MBP absolutely need both 2 mini DisplayPorts to reach 5k 60Hz bandwidth. This LG monitor only accepts such bandwidth through a single TB3 connection. Some hardware needs to sit between these 2 machines for the full signal to pass through.

I actually own the same model, a fully maxed 15" 2015. The best option is to avoid this LG display altogether and wait. A couple months down we will see the same panel being used by other manufacturers who usually provide more versatile input options, and they will likely cost less also.

 

[bunglebungle]

Last time I tested my rMBP late 2013 it did 4K 60hz using displayport connection to 4K screen yes.

I use my 15" rMBP late 2013 connected to a Panasonic 4K THX TV 50" which has a miniDisplayport @60hz to adjust/show my fotos in Aperture. Therefore, it should be no issue.

 

[GoodWheaties]

...
I really dislike when people just assume things.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/buying-guides/hdmi-vs-dvi-vs-displayport-vs-vga/
"DisplayPort version 1.2 offers a maximum resolution of 3,840×2,160"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)#Thunderbolt_2
"Thunderbolt 2 incorporates DisplayPort 1.2 support"
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Because displayport 1.2 which TB2 works with doesn't support more than 4k resolution.

if you want more, whine to apple why they don't implement a dual-connection design (2x TB2 (dp1.2)->TB3 (dp2.0). I don't know whether or not display port ports can be combined like DVI could be.

Just to add a bit more information , these monitors use Thunderbolt 3 which is still using DisplayPort 1.2 just like Thunderbolt 2, but can run two DisplayPort 1.2 streams over a single cable. So the 5K monitor is like two monitors that are interlaced to the computer. This setup requires Thunderbolt 3 and that will not change until a 5K monitor (and cabling) is compatible with DisplayPort 1.3.

Just wanted to add that for readers.
Edit: there are dual cable 5K monitors but I think we can agree that is not very elegant.

 

[unagimiyagi]

[doublepost=1482332037][/doublepost]This is a pleasant surprise. According to the support document, the 5K display would work with my Mid-2014 MacBook Pro Retina albeit at lower 4k resolution. Upon checking support document for the LG 4K Ultrafine it does not say that these same older Macs work with it or is this an oversight. Can anybody clear this up for me as I wanted to get the less expensive 4k LG Ultrafine. I wouldn't mind plugging away with lesser resolution until I can afford to get one of new MacBook Pro's.

I have this exact same question. Was shocked to find that a 2014 15" MacBook Pro can't work with the ultrafine 4K.

Also will 2560x1440 hidpi look good on the ultrafine 5K while running in 4K mode? People are saying it's upscaled? Won't that look fuzzy?

 

[Mr. Dee]

Apple recommends using the LG UltraFine 5K display as a second monitor as it might not turn on until the machines are booted into macOS.

Really Apple? You are telling me, you couldn't use your engineering resources and partnership with LG to make it work as a primary monitor?

 

[MH01]

Sure they could have. But I suspect it was LG's view to support only new computers going forward as a 5K only display over TB 3, including supporting the 3 built-in downstream USB C ports, audio, and its webcam - all over a single cable. The fact that it is also possible to support other computers with TB 2 adapters at 4K may have mattered little to LG not being part of their plans and roadmap.

And that would be especially true if it meant the display's USB-C/audio/webcam features would not be available over existing TB 2 protocols.

I suspect it was a deal done between apple and LG to promote the new Macbook pro, and departure of the apple display. LG specifically made this display to launch with the Macbook pro. Had they made a display for the industry as a whole, it would not have these ports, it would also come with display port which is the standard, and no cam.

I own the new macbook pro, but find this display to be far too limited and a one trick pony, which is fine if I am buying an apple display, but not an LG one. Really this is just the Apple TB3 Display, with the same limited connectivity but with LG branding.

 

[rdav]

I suspect it was a deal done between apple and LG to promote the new Macbook pro, and departure of the apple display. LG specifically made this display to launch with the Macbook pro. Had they made a display for the industry as a whole, it would not have these ports, it would also come with display port which is the standard, and no cam. I own the new macbook pro, but find this display to be far too limited and a one trick pony, which is fine if I am buying an apple display, but not an LG one. Really this is just the Apple TB3 Display, with the same limited connectivity but with LG branding.

What are the odds that LG will release an update to the UltraFine/5k in a few months, with additional capacity for MST input, thus expanding their market to the huge number of punters with modern dual-DP v-cards? Both Win/Mac - The business case seems clear. And it should make buyers more confident while they wait for TB3/SST/5k usage to ramp up.

 

[theluggage]

Running two Thunderbolt cables form a single MacBook Pro isn't very "dockable" though is it

But if your Mac doesn't have Thunderbolt 3, that's the only option for any 5k display.

Obviously, you're not going to consider this display unless you have, or are contemplating buying a machine with Thunderbolt 3 that can take full advantage of it.

However, what if you've already got a Mac Pro, a 5k iMac or the top end 2015 15" rMBP that can already do 5k over dual cables? You're not ready for a new Mac right now - you may still be waiting for the new iMac, or you might get a new MBP but keep your existing desktop... a display that could work with both would be a huge advantage.

which would have confusing for many

What? They might actually have to look at the instructions the first time they connect their near-$1000 display? Oh, the humanity...

If you want "confusing" try explaining the difference between the LG 4k display with USB-C and the LG 5k display with Thunderbolt 3, why the downstream USB-C ports on the former don't support anything other than USB2 speeds, which USB-C/TB3 devices you can connect displays to, why there are half-a-dozen different types of USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 cables, why you can't plug a Thunderbolt 3 device into a MacBook etc...

The idea that using a USB-C connector for everything will simplify things for non-technical users is hilarious. USBC/TB3 device compatibility is completely bewildering if you don't have some idea about what is going on under the hood.

 

[baryon]

It's odd how a barely 3 year old top-of-the-line computer cannot run this one display (5120 x 2880, that's less than 15 million pixels), while it can run three 27-inch Apple displays (2560 x 1440 each) in addition to its own internal retina display (2880 x 1800) at the same time, a total of more than 16 million pixels.

I guess the reason is that the internal display doesn't go through Thunderbolt. But still, it's just odd that with all this expensive high tech, you still are pretty unable to use a modern display with anything that isn't brand new.