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Marx55

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jan 1, 2005
1,913
753

QuarterSwede

macrumors G3
Oct 1, 2005
9,778
2,026
Colorado Springs, CO
I thought I had just read (yesterday or the day before) that an Intel engineer said Light Peak wouldn't be ready till sometime later this year. Maybe I misread something?
 

snberk103

macrumors 603
Oct 22, 2007
5,503
91
An Island in the Salish Sea
But it's based on copper, not optical fiber.

Yep, if true... it's gonna be a mess. Are the plugs going to be interchangeable (copper/optical fibre). Can you buy a LP peripheral today with the copper cable, and then "upgrade" to the optical fibre cable when it's ready?

Will computers ship with ports that will support both the copper and optical cables, or will there be LPv1 (older, slower, copper) and then LPv2 which is what was promised....

Questions Questions.... I suppose all will be made known in due time....
 

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Apr 12, 2001
63,278
30,339
Light Peak Ready for Implementation on Copper, Not Yet on Fiber Optic




140549-light_peak_neon.jpg


We've been following Intel's work on its "Light Peak" computer connection standard from some time now, watching as the company has been demonstrating connectivity promising speeds of 10 Gbps over fiber optic cables, with the possibility of extending the technology to 100 Gbps transfer speeds in the future. Rumors have pegged Apple as being likely to be at the forefront of Light Peak adoption, and several Intel demonstrations using Mac hardware have fueled interest in the technology on the part of Mac users.

As reported by IDG News Service, Intel announced at CES last Friday that Light Peak is in fact ready for implementation, with the major caveat being that the standard is initially being deployed over copper wiring instead of fiber optics.
"The copper came out very good, surprisingly better than what we thought," Perlmutter said. "Optical is always a new technology which is more expensive," he added.

Perlmutter declined to comment on when devices using Light Peak would reach store shelves, saying shipment depended on device makers. Intel has in the past said that devices with Light Peak technology would start shipping in late 2010 or early this year.
There has been some question about whether sticking with copper over fiber optics for the initial implementation will result in a speed reduction, but PCMag reports that Intel has been able to hit 10 Gbps over copper, buying it time to continue to refine the fiber optic implementations as it looks forward to 100 Gbps.
Although data transmission speeds will reach higher levels with fiber-optic cabling - including a proposed scale of up to 100 gigabits per second within a decade - the reality on the ground is that optical cabling is quite expensive compared to copper. Intel tipsters have indicated that the company will still be able to hit its initial target of 10 gigabits per second using copper cabling which, itself, will be more than adequate for the typical short connection lengths needed by computer consumers.
The initial 10 Gbps implementation of Light Peak offers over twice the theoretical speed of USB 3.0, which itself is still in the early stages of rolling out. The two standards are not necessarily incompatible, however, as USB and other protocols could run on top of Light Peak cabling, offering increased speed and flexibility while maintaining compatibility.

Article Link: Light Peak Ready for Implementation on Copper, Not Yet on Fiber Optic
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
This confused me when I read about, I thought the point of lightpeak was that it was optical, I didn't even know they could substitute in copper.

Optical fiber is still very expensive, so it would mean the technology would never make it much at first.

Also, the whole fiber optics part is for long data transmission lines where copper proves to be useless or very expensive to maintain.

Inside a computer, copper works fine, for now.
 

coder12

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2010
512
3
Heck, 10gbps. I'd LOVE that! I see a lot of good coming from this if it gets adopted widely enough.
 

Eddyisgreat

macrumors 601
Oct 24, 2007
4,851
2
2011 will be the yr of the single port MBP (not including magsafe) with a lightpeak dock offering numerous USB 3.0 ports, triple FW800, eSATA, twin ethernet, optical in/out, hdmi and displayport.
 

lilo777

macrumors 603
Nov 25, 2009
5,144
0
Looks like a DOA thing

As I understand, any real implementation would have to use two controllers: LightPeak and the data protocol (USB 3.0 or something). That's two chips instead of one (compared to regular USB 3.0). Then 10Gbps is probably a raw speed. Most likely there will be some overhead when data transfer protocol is using LightPeak. So it's not clear if USB over Light Peak will be any faster than regular USB 3.0. The speed bump cmopared to USB 3.0 clearly is not sufficient for computer manufacturers to venture into this thing when USB 3.0 is already tested and gained market acceptance.
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
Copper = cheaper

I am not surprised.

Neither am I. Copper is a logical move from Intel if they want LP to be more than just geeks' wet dream. Fiber might have made it too expensive to be used in mainstream computers (such as Macs, excluding Mac Pro), so in order to make LP affordable by normal people, they had to use copper.

I would rather take 30$ "Copper Peak" @10Gb/s than 800$ "Fiber Peak" @10Gb/s.
 

notjustjay

macrumors 603
Sep 19, 2003
6,056
167
Canada, eh?
Copper wires are also far more versatile than optical cabling. You could fold a copper wire in half or stuff it into a cavity somewhere, without any problems. With optical wire you need to be careful about the minimum radius you allow it to curve at, or risk breaking it.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Copper wires are also far more versatile than optical cabling. You could fold a copper wire in half or stuff it into a cavity somewhere, without any problems. With optical wire you need to be careful about the minimum radius you allow it to curve at, or risk breaking it.

Wrong... Ethernet cables don't fancy being bent or stuck in some cavity. They also break.
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
Have they addressed the power flaw in lightpeak yet? (I.E It has none.)

I'm all for Light peak - its fast. But without power it halves its usefulness. A portable hard drive requires a power over usb. It'd be pointless to use light peak and have a second cable plugged into a USB socket to get power to the device.

Surely if they plan to roll it out on copper it would be wise to use it for standard 5v power like USB does? Even intel said they wanted to use copper along side the fibre to get power to the device.

As much as we all want 10 or 100 gbps, the technology doesn't feel ready. They seem to be skimping on the important parts just to get it to market as quick as possible :/
 

Dwalls90

macrumors 603
Feb 5, 2009
5,426
4,391
Hey this is my story I posted!

Glad to see they do take member's input though ;)
 

belvdr

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2005
5,945
1,372
Optical fiber is still very expensive, so it would mean the technology would never make it much at first.

Also, the whole fiber optics part is for long data transmission lines where copper proves to be useless or very expensive to maintain.

Inside a computer, copper works fine, for now.

Or where copper can't deliver the speed. There's a story now running in the main news that states this further.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,257
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Have they addressed the power flaw in lightpeak yet? (I.E It has none.)

I'm all for Light peak - its fast. But without power it halves its usefulness. A portable hard drive requires a power over usb. It'd be pointless to use light peak and have a second cable plugged into a USB socket to get power to the device.

Surely if they plan to roll it out on copper it would be wise to use it for standard 5v power like USB does? Even intel said they wanted to use copper along side the fibre to get power to the device.

As much as we all want 10 or 100 gbps, the technology doesn't feel ready. They seem to be skimping on the important parts just to get it to market as quick as possible :/

They'll most likely have the optical fibers running, and on the side, two copper wires to carry the voltage and current necessary to power in spec devices.
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,875
2,922
How many Volts and how many Amps can Light Peak deliver? No matter how fast a cable is, if it can't power a hard drive at 7200 RPM, it's pointless! That's the problem with USB, it delivers so little power (5 volts and 500mA I think) that any hard drive you connect to it is either slow or requires a bulky power adapter. I think that in the future, portable hard drives should not require separate power adapters to run fast.
 

jmw1480

macrumors member
Jul 14, 2010
59
71
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I intend to buy a new Mac - probably an iMac - to finally replace my old and crawling G4 tower. I think I may hold out for the next release with the prospect of Sandy Bridge, but is this something else I should be waiting for?
 

rmwebs

macrumors 68040
Apr 6, 2007
3,140
0
How many Volts and how many Amps can Light Peak deliver? No matter how fast a cable is, if it can't power a hard drive at 7200 RPM, it's pointless! That's the problem with USB, it delivers so little power (5 volts and 500mA I think) that any hard drive you connect to it is either slow or requires a bulky power adapter. I think that in the future, portable hard drives should not require separate power adapters to run fast.

I agree...I'd like to see 12v as standard. This would be sufficient to power both portable and desktop hard drives without a plethora of power bricks stacked around the desk!
 
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