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Is fiber REALLY that much more expensive? I am using fiber for audio from my TV as well as from my computer to my sound system. It cost less that most USB 2.0 cables.
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Copper may have been cheaper in the past, but not now.

That's not fiber, that's a cheap piece of flexible plastic that conducts low-powered LED light at a few megabits per second.

Real fiber is made of glass, is thinner than a human hair and very fragile. The optics involved send and receive laser pulses on frequencies that are precise down to a few nanometers, at one to tens of gigabits per second.

Copper will always be cheaper dollar-wise than fiber because copper doesn't require the same kinds of precision electronics at both ends to send and receive high bandwidth optical signals.
 
They just can't make the tech that would surpass everything that we know today speed-wise and other-wise :)
The whole idea behind the IT/patent world is to implement the changes one by one so everyone can be satisfied...
It is simply to early to adopt fiber-optic tech in to products designed for home users. Connectors, interfaces and tech behind the FB has been around for years now and it is in fact not as expensive to implement in to consumer's machines as the companies would like you to believe. It's just more profitable to dose the tech bit by bit...a little upgrade here, a speed bump there, new interface every 10 or so years. Welcome to the world of shareholding, marketing and bulls*it selling...
In short, the tech is there,they just want to milk all other options first.
:apple:

So you're saying there is a cartel among IT companies? And all IT companies are members?
 
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How many Volts and how many Amps can Light Peak deliver? No matter how fast a cable is, if it can't power a hard drive at 7200 RPM, it's pointless! That's the problem with USB, it delivers so little power (5 volts and 500mA I think) that any hard drive you connect to it is either slow or requires a bulky power adapter. I think that in the future, portable hard drives should not require separate power adapters to run fast.

Good point.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I intend to buy a new Mac - probably an iMac - to finally replace my old and crawling G4 tower. I think I may hold out for the next release with the prospect of Sandy Bridge, but is this something else I should be waiting for?

Since you keep your computers for 8-10 years, the answer is Yes, wait. You don't want to be stuck with USB 2 speeds for another 8-10 years.
 
There Wont Be...

Any big technology transitions or breakthroughs until photonic's matures a bit more... Light Peak is first step...
Photonic's and nano-tech in main stream is the next bit thing...

Although the discovery, and creation of Anti-matter hydrogen atoms late last year is a big step for mankind...
:rolleyes:
 
Just dump this LightPeak Intel, concentrate on USB 3.0 you've been stalling instead.

LightPeak can't deliver power as been mentioned already.

And USB really matured, USB 3.0 has enough speed and the ports are already settled on, no more, mini, micro, a bit more mini, mini me ports... just 3 ports, Type-A, Type-B and Micro(I wish this USB 3.0 port looked better though), that's it AND it's backwards compatible.

Just focus on USB 3.0.
 
Intel is milking consumers with these small steps. If it's not ready for what it was intended for, wait. No different than processors doing 20 to 30 percent speed bumps when the next generation chip comes out.
 
They just can't make the tech that would surpass everything that we know today speed-wise and other-wise :)
The whole idea behind the IT/patent world is to implement the changes one by one so everyone can be satisfied...
It is simply to early to adopt fiber-optic tech in to products designed for home users. Connectors, interfaces and tech behind the FB has been around for years now and it is in fact not as expensive to implement in to consumer's machines as the companies would like you to believe. It's just more profitable to dose the tech bit by bit...a little upgrade here, a speed bump there, new interface every 10 or so years. Welcome to the world of shareholding, marketing and bulls*it selling...
In short, the tech is there,they just want to milk all other options first.
:apple:


Yup. Good point. You're thinking like a business man. You hit the nail on the head. If these companies implemented the fully capable version of Light Peak soon, where do they go from there? These companies aren't stupid. They're gonna milk it a while. That will buy a few more years of another technology for which we all will need to buy connectors and adapters. Then we can all buy everything all over again... in a few years.

I don't understand why cable TV providers can implement affordable fiber optic infrastructures across a whole city, but a tiny, really expensive computer can't.

Cyberbob beat me to the punch. It really is Lite Peak.
 
What

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

I intend to buy a new Mac - probably an iMac - to finally replace my old and crawling G4 tower. I think I may hold out for the next release with the prospect of Sandy Bridge, but is this something else I should be waiting for?

You have already waited too long.
 
it would be nice to be able to use this for data backups. Now if only the hard drives could catch up. I can't recall the exact point but we went from backing up MBs of data to a TB of data in the last 3 years.

Hmm, maybe even replace the IP protocol and it's measly Mbps bandwidth. Imagine backing up to clouds at 10 Gbps.
 
Just dump this LightPeak Intel, concentrate on USB 3.0 you've been stalling instead.

LightPeak can't deliver power as been mentioned already.

And USB really matured, USB 3.0 has enough speed and the ports are already settled on, no more, mini, micro, a bit more mini, mini me ports... just 3 ports, Type-A, Type-B and Micro(I wish this USB 3.0 port looked better though), that's it AND it's backwards compatible.

Just focus on USB 3.0.

Light Peak is Intel's hobby (Intel does a lot of cutting edge research) and they already announced that they will support USB 3.0 in future chipsets. Now Apple might be in a peculiar position. It looks like neither Light Peak nor USB 3.0 enabled Intel chipsets will be ready for the next generation of MacBooks. What will Apple do? C2D + USB 2.0?
 
ABSOLUTELY FALSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ethernet is twisted pair(s) - the electrodynamics of which I do not want to get into (it was an undergrad homework assignment years ago). While it may be physically wire, the geometry of the wire is absolutely crucial to its bandwidth capability.
j

You're not talking about the same thing we were. Of course since all the conductors are running different signals unshielded you need something to prevent cross-talk and interference. This is what the twists in the pair is.

However, what I said remains true, you can bend Cat 5 cabling beyond the point any coaxial or fiber optics will bend and it is ABSOLUTELY TRUE that it'll still transmit. Heck, a bend won't affect the twists that much (in fact, I untwist them longer to make connectors than a bend would) and would result in no cross-talk. Unless the bend somehow strips the isolation and exposes the conductor or cuts it, it will work.

It is just an electrical signal.
 
Yup. Good point. You're thinking like a business man. You hit the nail on the head. If these companies implemented the fully capable version of Light Peak soon, where do they go from there? These companies aren't stupid. They're gonna milk it a while. That will buy a few more years of another technology for which we all will need to buy connectors and adapters. Then we can all buy everything all over again... in a few years.

I don't understand why cable TV providers can implement affordable fiber optic infrastructures across a whole city, but a tiny, really expensive computer can't.

Cyberbob beat me to the punch. It really is Lite Peak.

I don't like this attitude. Its like with Verizon's FIOS, they lost a ton of money in it because, simply put, the spent something like $20B. They won't recover that for many years, and when you consider interest on the bank, they could've better spent it on, say, upgrading to LTE in 2010.

But the advantages is since its sunk is that they now have a great infrastructure with minimal costs going forward; furthermore, it pushes down the competition. FIOS prices though are very low and at a loss-but, since its a sunk cost, no one really cares anymore.

As far as what companies do in the future once done with lightpeak, the problem with this answer is I don't know. And you don't know. And if either of us knew, we could get very rich by developing a useful technology. Just because you don't know a possible direction doesn't mean one doesn't exist.

A reality here is manufacturing. Of course, they need to make money back on old technologies, usually to pay for future R&D and infrastructure as well as their own excessive stock options. But releasing a technology without a built infrastructure is useless, and if you don't believe that, try finding me a 1080p LCD TV from 20 years ago. The technology was there, but ways to do it cheaply weren't, and even if you could sort of fabricate one, you had to spend a lot of money on infrastructure to do it-you would never be able to make enough.

And that's the thing with technology. You need the facilities to produce Ivy bridge, for instance. And currently Ivy Bridge isn't capable of making money, so you have to use your capacity to produce what is (Nehalem, Westmere and soon enough, Sandy Bridge). But until you can establish a stable enough supply to keep an income, as well as making sure the resources you devote can be profitable, you can't do it.

And that's what a lot of us geeks fail to understand about science. Yes, you can theoretically do something. Or you can even practically do something. But can you do it effectively at a low enough price to build the facilities to constantly do such a thing?

Intel has a lot of facilities that use copper. Converting them to produce fiber would be very expensive, and will probably happen slowly, and only when they have enough facilities to make the materials in large bulk without disrupting current supply lines will it become feasible. Yes, they can make a 100Gb/s cable, fiber, all that. But can they make tens, maybe hundreds of millions of them within a year?
 
"I think you're confusing SCSI with PATA (aka "IDE"). SCSI devices didn't use "slave" devices and only the last drive in the chain needed any termination (if at all). SCSI devices were set by "ID" and therefore were set to a number from 0-7 (on older SCSI interfaces like the Amiga; this went to 16 total devices on newer interfaces). Setting a number could be as simple as a set of numbered dip switches on a given device. If you could count from 0-7, it wasn't that hard. SCSI is still in use today (mostly in professional usage) and typically uses serial cables now or even Ethernet for external devices."

Most of my old SCSI devices used with NuBus on ProTools used thumbwheels to set the device ID: didn't even have to count dip switches in binary. I never had big issues set it up, after I, I RTFM. My issue as always the big ol' fat cables that were stiff enough to move big ol' heavy (10,000RPM) drives around.

Eddie O
 
Wrong... Ethernet cables don't fancy being bent or stuck in some cavity. They also break.

Key word is 'don't fancy'. He never said it can't break, just that one breaks far easier then the other. Copper is many many times more forgiving then fiber when it comes to bending.

Back on topic, this is a sad day that fiber seems to being put on the back burner again. First USB 3 loses it's fiber now lightpeak seems to be pushing it's first revision without it.
 
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Back on topic, this is a sad day that fiber seems to being put on the back burner again. First USB 3 loses it's fiber now lightpeak seems to be pushing it's first revision without it.

Agreed. I think Apple had hoped for the optical option too. I could really see Apple jumping on a Light Peak that actually used 'Light'. It could have been sold as innovative and cutting edge. It would have made Apple technologically different than anybody else (I'll leave the 'better' / 'worse' debate aside). Which always sells more units.

But copper is just copper. Light Peak on copper is just USB 3 in different clothing. I mean, I know it isn't really... but it's hard to explain to non-tech lovers why LP is better than USB 3. It moves data, it's fast... what else is there.... sigh... optical would have been 'exciting' ...
 
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