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You mean like we on the Windows side have been doing with docking stations and port replicators for the last decade or two?

At the end of the work day, I push the "undock" button on my dock at work ...

When I'm home, I click the laptop into the dock at home ...

Next day, when I go back to the office, I push the "undock" button and stuff the laptop into my bag.
...
I hope some group at Apple is working to make docking on Apple OSX work as well as it does on Windows.

Um, no not what I meant. I have a MP for my "hefty" computing needs. It's this system that is connected to a bunch of things. Where things go is dictated more by the cable requirements, than by where it actually makes sense to put them. At least in my situation.

When I move to my laptop, it's always in a "remote" location (even if I'm just out on the deck :) ).

I've never missed the lack of docks with Macs. Though to be fair, that could be just because I've never experienced them. You can't miss what you've never had. :)

I agree with you that Apple should be making OS X the best docking OS out there.

I wonder if LP might make docking OS X a "revolutionary" experience. If I were consulted (Ha!) I would tell Apple that the OS should remember the "state" that each LP hub was in the last time the laptop was plugged into the hub, and restore the system to the previous "state". I guess the user would need to designate certain hubs as "docks" in preferences so that the laptop could be plugged into a 'non-dock' hub, and not try to arrange things to the previous state, even though the laptop had been connected before to the hub.

Hmmm.... I should get paid for that idea, eh?
 
I guess the user would need to designate certain hubs as "docks" in preferences so that the laptop could be plugged into a 'non-dock' hub, and not try to arrange things to the previous state, even though the laptop had been connected before to the hub.

Hmmm.... I should get paid for that idea, eh?

Well, probably not - since that's more or less how Windows XP and later handles docks.

One difference, though, is that a Windows "dock" is a manufacturer supplied bit of kit.

Windows does not treat random USB hubs as special entities.

You're suggesting, basically, that a Light Peak hub should be identified in the same way that Windows currently identifies docks.
 
Well, probably not - since that's more or less how Windows XP and later handles docks.

One difference, though, is that a Windows "dock" is a manufacturer supplied bit of kit.

Windows does not treat random USB hubs as special entities.

You're suggesting, basically, that a Light Peak hub should be identified in the same way that Windows currently identifies docks.

I know about "docks" in the sense I've seen them, and looked at them, and even occasionally read reviews about the Mac versions. Just never really saw a need (in my particular situation).

But, yes.... there should be a way for the OS to tag each LP Hub, and then - if requested - remember how things were set up when it was last plugged into the hub. Makes a lot of sense for any monitors that are using LP (not an issue for USB hubs). But even HDs could use this feature. Maybe only certain external drives should automatically mount when the computer is re-attached to the hub.

It could be extended to include applications too. I think, iirc, there is an SW package that will change a Mac's network settings based on how the Mac is connected to the internet. So an ethernet connection to router "a" means that the Mac is at work, and needs to be configured one way - and connecting to a WiFi "b" means the Mac is at the coffee shop, and should be configured differently. I think this means firewalls, and which services are being turned off/on, etc et

A Mac being plugged into the "work" LP hub should be ('should' as in they'd be crazy not design this in) able to mount certain resources, and pop up the "work" applications. And of course arrange the windows on the monitors just like you had them before.

Way way way back, I used OS/2 - and it had a "Work Place" folder. It was folder only in concept - it actually didn't exist in any directory tree. I suppose like the sidebar in the Finder in OS X. You could set up any number of Work Place folders, one for each project for example. Any icons dragged into the WP folder was automatically an alias, and you could drag any type of "object" into the WP folder. So, you would work on your project - opening directories, applications, documents, network mapped drives, palettes, etc from the WP folder for the project. At the end of the day you closed the WP folder and all of the documents, apps, drives, etc would close as well. In the morning you opened the WP folder, and everything you had been working on would be restored to way it was when you closed the folder, apps, docs, drives, and all. You could also minimize the folder, and it would all go away. You could, of course, have several WP folders on the go, each one set up separately and individually.

I would pay good money to get something like that for OS X.... not too much, but some.
 
That's not fiber, that's a cheap piece of flexible plastic that conducts low-powered LED light at a few megabits per second.

Toslink is a specific cable connector type and transmission system. It does not describe the type of fiber used. Furthermore, "optical fiber" is a generic term used to describe any fiber cable that achieves total internal reflection. It doesn't matter whether it's plastic or glass or fluorides. It's still called "optical fiber". If you specifically want to talk about glass (silica) optical fiber, then say glass/silica optical fiber. Otherwise, you're just flat out wrong in your statement.

Toslink cable can be made of plastic or glass fiber. Toslink cable's transmission rate has nothing to do with the material used in the cable and everything to do with the transmitter and receiver's pulse rate. The distance it can transmit also has to do with the power of the transmitter. The reason newer products often can use longer cables is that they use more power than the standard requires. In fact, plastic optical fiber is typically used for any optical fiber application where runs are less than 100 meters. How long a cable do you think Light Peak is going to need for consumer gear? It's not going to anywhere NEAR 100 meters in most consumer applications. Thus, this cable cost thing is a total red herring IMO.

Real fiber

Here I thought "real fiber" was made of a whole grain. :D

The optics involved send and receive laser pulses on frequencies that are precise down to a few nanometers, at one to tens of gigabits per second.

Copper will always be cheaper dollar-wise than fiber because copper doesn't require the same kinds of precision electronics at both ends to send and receive high bandwidth optical signals.

You're talking about the transmitters and receivers now, not the actual cable required for a given application. Price is also a function of production size and competition and the manufacturing technology used. Penlight sized lasers are dirt cheap these days, for example whereas that was not always the case.

I thought the purpose was to bring fiber optic computing home.

No, the point is to make Intel money. They want a product that is better than the competition and if they play their cards right, they'll have it. All they need to do is build a system that is compatible with USB3, but at the same time can potentially go beyond it. If they don't make it compatible, they'll have a losing system on their hands because frankly, USB 3.0 got there first and is backwards compatible with USB 2.x and 1.x. NO ONE (well maybe Apple would since they seem to love to buck standards most of the time) wants another Firewire situation whereby it's used in specialized applications and almost nowhere else.

Really, I thought originally the talk about Apple wanting this system was for a future iOS/Mobile type device to easily connect two devices together and trade information much faster than Bluetooth would ever allow (i.e. 802.11N doesn't work for two receiving end devices to trade data without a parent WiFi network). In other words, some future iPad might want to move some data to a future iPod Touch and maybe these future models have 128GB drives in them. Unless you're in a shared network, your only option would be Bluetooth from one device to another. If they had LightPeak, you could connect a tiny optical cable between them and transfer data pretty much as fast as their drives could handle it. THAT makes sense to want a system to do that and optical is a good choice for tiny mobile devices using low power over small cable runs.

But at home, it makes less sense. Plastic optical is no better than copper for a <100m cable run in most cases and you cannot transmit power over optical-only (thus requiring a copper cable line anyway). And quite frankly, it would be simple to use micro-USB connectors on mobile devices and just use USB 3.0 for large file transfers. So unless Intel is making this fully USB 3.0 compatible, I think it's a losing venture for now. They would need to be significantly faster (more than 2x) than USB 3.0 *AND* have a use for those speeds. Currently, there aren't any hard drives that could make use of it and things like audio interfaces don't need those kinds of speeds, so where's the need currently for something like a 100x USB 3.0 rate on consumer devices? (shakes head)

Even if Light Peak had gotten there first, it would still lack the backwards compatibility advantage that USB 3 has (i.e. it simply replaces USB 2.x ports the same way USB 2 replaced USB 1 ports; they're needed regardless so it's a no-brainer replacement/upgrade route. (i.e. we had FW800 long before USB 3.0 and it's way faster and better all around but it NEVER got mainstream adoption because it wasn't even plug (without an adapter) compatible with FW400, let alone had the world-wide adoption of USB 1.x to simply replace existing connectors on newer hardware). And THAT is what rabid Light Peak fanatics keep forgetting. Beta was a higher resolution format than VHS, but it still lost because it had an edge in more important areas (i.e. time and licensing advantages).

But if Light Peak (Copper) used USB 3.0 connectors and was 100% USB 3.0 compatible THEN it could see serious adoption over time because you could use all USB devices with it plus get light-peak specific devices as they were needed for faster transfers.
 
...But at home, it makes less sense. Plastic optical is no better than copper for a <100m cable run in most cases and you cannot transmit power over optical-only (thus requiring a copper cable line anyway). And quite frankly, it would be simple to use micro-USB connectors on mobile devices and just use USB 3.0 for large file transfers. So unless Intel is making this fully USB 3.0 compatible, I think it's a losing venture for now. They would need to be significantly faster (more than 2x) than USB 3.0 *AND* have a use for those speeds. Currently, there aren't any hard drives that could make use of it and things like audio interfaces don't need those kinds of speeds, so where's the need currently for something like a 100x USB 3.0 rate on consumer devices? (shakes head)....

Good post Magnus: Just wanted to add though, that USB 3 is, for the most part, only meant to make the existing USB connections faster. That is, things that use USB to connect, and that need high bandwidth, will see benefits by moving to USB 3. There are some other benefits as well, of course, that the new standard will bring to USB - but primarily it's meant to make USB better.

Light Peak, if and when fully implemented, is supposed to replace just about every other type of connector - including the myriad types of connectors between a monitor and the computer. Of course the LP connector will need to be as small as a mini-display port. But, within a few years, LP should be able to power several HD monitors, plus any peripherals plugged into them.

Until LP meets these speeds it and USB 3 are functionally equivalent. Both have pros and cons.

I don't know why LP connectors should be USB 3 compatible. The speed that LP is capable of (supposedly LPv1 is still going to be faster than USB 3) will be limited by the USB bus.

Of of this is, of course, imho .... and just idle speculation.... :)
 
I don't know why LP connectors should be USB 3 compatible. The speed that LP is capable of (supposedly LPv1 is still going to be faster than USB 3) will be limited by the USB bus.

I expect he means, as many of us have suggested, that the Light Peak wires/fibres could somehow be put into the USB 3 connection, so you can either plug in a USB cable or a LP cable. This would be significantly easier with copper than optical, as it seems possible to just reconfigure some of the USB terminals to act as LP as well. Intel don't have to worry about keeping optical and copper LP ports the same shape and size, as they are obviously not compatible no matter what.
 
I expect he means, as many of us have suggested, that the Light Peak wires/fibres could somehow be put into the USB 3 connection, so you can either plug in a USB cable or a LP cable. This would be significantly easier with copper than optical, as it seems possible to just reconfigure some of the USB terminals to act as LP as well. Intel don't have to worry about keeping optical and copper LP ports the same shape and size, as they are obviously not compatible no matter what.

Light Peak w/ copper cable with USB 3 connectors is just a USB 3 cable, isn't it?

Everything I understood about LP was based on light being sent down a fibre, and that there would be chips at either end to either translate the light pulses into electrical signals to either send down copper wires, or back into light to go down another fibre where there was more chips waiting at the end to repeat the cycle.

I have no idea how this Light Peak w/copper is going to work. My first thought was that the initial LP ports would have both copper and optical fibre transceivers. Initially, the plugs would only have copper and the light bit of the unit would stay dark. Then later, when you plugged an OF cable into the port the transceiver would sense this, and fire up the optical signal bits, and perhaps use the copper contacts to send power down the copper wires that are part of the cable.... but Intel said they are going to copper, partly because OF was expensive. I would assume the transceivers are pretty pricey at this point, so the transceivers have full capability - how much cheaper would that be?? I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud.

At this point I think we are going to see the same thing as FW400 and FW800. Two different plugs, some base technology. You can use an adapter to go from LP copper to LP optical - but at least it's clearer that the device will run at LPv1 speeds - not the optical speeds....

That is my prediction about USB3. Because the USB2 and USB3 will appear to interchangeable (at the port and cable level) people will be unhappy when their new USB3 HD doesn't work as advertised. It wasn't really an issue with USB1 and USB2 because the breadth and depth of USB devices was not nearly as rich as it is now. High bandwidth devices were not nearly as ubiquitous as they are now, and if you had such a device you were a certifiable geek - so USB1 and USB2 were not confusing.

Now - people are not so up on their technologies, they just expect things to work as advertised... and manufacturers are not going to want to muddy up a sale by confusing the consumer with the technical requirements on the front of the box.

I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed people when USB3 rolls out in a mass market way. And I think Intel may be heading that way with LP now that they've announced LP vCU....
 
Just wanted to add though, that USB 3 is, for the most part, only meant to make the existing USB connections faster. That is, things that use USB to connect, and that need high bandwidth, will see benefits by moving to USB 3. There are some other benefits as well, of course, that the new standard will bring to USB - but primarily it's meant to make USB better.

In order to get the benefits of USB 3, both the device and the USB port it connects to must be USB 3 compatible. You can plug a USB 2.0 cable into a USB 3 port, but the connected device will still be limited by USB 2.0 speeds. Therefore, existing connections will stay the same, and only new USB 3 native devices will get the benefits.
 
new cables, too

In order to get the benefits of USB 3, both the device and the USB port it connects to must be USB 3 compatible. You can plug a USB 2.0 cable into a USB 3 port, but the connected device will still be limited by USB 2.0 speeds. Therefore, existing connections will stay the same, and only new USB 3 native devices will get the benefits.

You'll also need USB 3.0 cables with your USB 3.0 device.

The sockets are bi-modal. A USB 2.0 cable plugged into a USB 3.0 socket will work, but at USB 2.0 speeds.

A USB 3.0 cable will run at USB 3.0 speeds, but won't fit into a USB 2.0 socket.
 
You'll also need USB 3.0 cables with your USB 3.0 device.

The sockets are bi-modal. A USB 2.0 cable plugged into a USB 3.0 socket will work, but at USB 2.0 speeds.

A USB 3.0 cable will run at USB 3.0 speeds, but won't fit into a USB 2.0 socket.

Yeah I should've been a bit more concise, but yes that's what I was implying by "device", device and the cables. It's really surprising how many people don't understand this. I remember not too long ago reading a customer review of a notebook with USB 3 on it, and the review said something like "I don't see what all the hype over USB 3.0 is about, I plugged my hard drive in and I didn't see any speed improvements at all! So much for 'blazing speed' I guess!" LOL. :D
 
In order to get the benefits of USB 3, both the device and the USB port it connects to must be USB 3 compatible. You can plug a USB 2.0 cable into a USB 3 port, but the connected device will still be limited by USB 2.0 speeds. Therefore, existing connections will stay the same, and only new USB 3 native devices will get the benefits.

Yes, I know that.... but admittedly my post may not have made that clear.

What I meant was that things that are already using USB2 will be upgraded with new versions that will take advantage of USB3 speeds.... but - it will be limited, for the most part, to the types of devices that already use USB2. USB3 is a better version of USB. HDs will change to USB3, and benefit. Printers not so much. Scanners, perhaps? Flash drives will benefit, mice and keyboards - not so much. USB3 is as fast as FW800 (effectively) I believe. Not as fast as eSATA. And not designed to be used inside a computer case.

LP, on paper, is supposed to do everything USB does, plus FW, plus potentially replace existing that video ports. At the 100 GBs (or is that Gbs?) it will be fast enough (eventually). Plus supposedly it will do some ethernet stuff (though I think that is a tenuous hope.... ethernet is fast and cheap and common and installed everywhere LP might try to replace it).

Potentially, LP could be used inside a computer case....

But.... this is reading tea leaves... I will admit that.... or is that chicken bones? :)
 
Scanners, perhaps?

I think that scanners will definitely make the jump to USB 3.0. I have a 25 page per minute (double-sided) document scanner, and it's definitely USB-bound at 300 dpi or higher. Flatbed scanners at higher resolution also are limited by USB 2.0 speeds.


USB3 is as fast as FW800 (effectively) I believe. Not as fast as eSATA.

BareFeats testing showed USB 3.0 to be twice as fast as 1394b, and faster than eSATA on an ExpressCard. (But a bit slower than SATA on the motherboard - which makes sense, it's unlikely that a SATA drive connected through USB 3.0 would be faster than the same drive directly connected to SATA.)


And not designed to be used inside a computer case.

Actually, it's fairly common for USB to be used on the motherboard and inside the case.

For example, on my Dell Latitude the Bluetooth radio is a USB device, the touch screen controller is USB, and the fingerprint reader is USB.
 
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I think that scanners will definitely make the jump to USB 3.0. I have a 25 page per minute (double-sided) document scanner, and it's definitely USB-bound at 300 dpi or higher. Flatbed scanners at higher resolution also are limited by USB 2.0 speeds.
I've wondered about that. I have a scanner that can do either FW or USB. I've not had a chance to test the two speeds. Though it's only been recently I've been able to connect it by FW, due to where things are located in my office....

BareFeats testing showed USB 3.0 to be twice as fast as 1394b, and faster than eSATA on an ExpressCard. (But a bit slower than SATA on the motherboard - which makes sense, it's unlikely that a SATA drive connected through USB 3.0 would be faster than the same drive directly connected to SATA.)
Yes, I've seen charts that show USB3 to be just a bit faster up to 2x faster than FW800, depending on HW configurations. It's not enough of an improvement to make me ditch my existing FW infrastructure and add USB3 to the system. It's not that big an improvement. To make a significant improvement it needs to be at least 5x the speed. That's worth the hassle of switching over, imo.

Actually, it's fairly common for USB to be used on the motherboard and inside the case.

For example, on my Dell Latitude the Bluetooth radio is a USB device, the touch screen controller is USB, and the fingerprint reader is USB.

I didn't know that.... thanks! It does make sense to keep the low bandwidth stuff on USB (2 or 3) and then just the high bandwidth stuff needs to move to LP. Or the stuff that can be a fair distance from the system.
 
Light Peak, if and when fully implemented, is supposed to replace just about every other type of connector - including the myriad types of connectors between a monitor and the computer. Of course the LP connector will need to be as small as a mini-display port. But, within a few years, LP should be able to power several HD monitors, plus any peripherals plugged into them.

It'll probably take more than a few years to get support for all devices to use Light Peak, IMO and it makes this push from Apple for things like Mini-Display Port to seem outright stupid, IMO since it'll never have time to take off even if manufacturers wanted it to (they don't from what I've seen). Just more Appletalk style junk that no one wants to use. I'm glad my MBP has full-sized DVI on it. It's supported just about everywhere.

Until LP meets these speeds it and USB 3 are functionally equivalent. Both have pros and cons.

The problem is that if they release Lightpeak in pure competition to USB 3.0 we have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray wars all over again except that we know that purely on those levels USB 3.0 will win for the same reasons it won versus Firewire, even if speeds are 2x faster on Light Peak (the backwards adoption and replacement of existing USB ports make that inevitable for now). Thus, it would be utterly pointless for Light Peak to take on USB 3 on that front UNLESS it's backwards compatible and thus doesn't "fight" it but rather "replaces" it (and then some since it would also have the other future uses).

I don't know why LP connectors should be USB 3 compatible. The speed that LP is capable of (supposedly LPv1 is still going to be faster than USB 3) will be limited by the USB bus.

If they're going to replace "everything" in the future as you yourself suggested, then they MUST be compatible in order to easily replace USB devices. Otherwise, asking everyone who makes USB devices to suddenly make them all Light-Peak would cause a serious rejection of Light Peak as a "replace all" type system. You would inevitably end up with computers that have Light Peak AND USB3 and again it's the USB 2.0 versus Firewire thing all over again. Firewire cost money and took up space and most didn't "need" it so they just didn't bother to include it. I maintain that Light Peak will need to supplant it completely, at least internally to have any chance of being everything to everyone any time soon.

You'll also need USB 3.0 cables with your USB 3.0 device.

The sockets are bi-modal. A USB 2.0 cable plugged into a USB 3.0 socket will work, but at USB 2.0 speeds.

A USB 3.0 cable will run at USB 3.0 speeds, but won't fit into a USB 2.0 socket.

And thus I'm saying that a successful Light Peak V1.0 "copper only" port should be "tri-modal" (i.e. accept USB cables and yet also "light peak" cables that are meant to go faster than USB 3.0 speeds) and also keep a "light" based version in mind as well to use the same type/shape port in the future. The port could be shaped to accommodate more than one cable shape or Light Peak cables could simply use the same type connectors (or that "plus" more) and the differences would purely be how the Light Peak bus handles the type of cable connected. Otherwise, it's just setting up for a "fight" with USB3 and I don't think it can win with this "copper only" form that is too slow for anyone to really care in 2011 when you'd still NEED some form of "USB" for backwards compatibility with existing devices.
 
It's not enough of an improvement to make me ditch my existing FW infrastructure and add USB3 to the system. It's not that big an improvement. To make a significant improvement it needs to be at least 5x the speed. That's worth the hassle of switching over, imo.

No need to dump existing stuff. Just get FW+USB3 on newer stuff, or just USB3 newer stuff if you have a USB3 host.
 
No need to dump existing stuff. Just get FW+USB3 on newer stuff, or just USB3 newer stuff if you have a USB3 host.

Not making any changes anytime soon. Internal HDs for local storage on the MP. External HDs on USB2 for nightly back ups. External HDs on FW800 for "on the road" backups from the MBP. Or just for taking files (but not the MBP) with me (rarely needed.)

USB3 gives me nothing I need, honestly.

Light Peak could (when fully implemented) completely change how computers and peripherals are thought about, and how they connect and relate to each other. But only when LP is running at full speed. This LPv1 over copper adds nothing that is usably innovative. It's just a fast USB with a different plug. Or maybe not even a different plug.

But a mature LP allows you to completely rethink where the different bits that make up a computing system go, and how they connect. At full speed, LP is faster than the connections between internal HDs and the MB. LP means you don't need internal HDs anymore, all HDs can 100 ft away.

LP can drive multiple monitors, through a single port, so now you're just limited by what the GPU can do.

A single LP cable would be able to drive several monitors, and each monitor could act as a hub to several external HDs, a DVD burner, and house legacy ports for FW and USB devices.

This is all pie-in-the-sky... I know that. But, the technology that is promised with LP would allow all of this, if Intel gets it working as they would like to. A very big 'IF'. It's then a matter of the manufacturers bringing it to market and consumers accepting it.

USB3 doesn't have the capability to allow this out-of-the-box thinking. It's an improvement, to be sure. And it will be widely adopted because it will just start becoming part of the eco-system. But USB3 will be supplanted in a few years. It's an evolutionary improvement, and LP has the possibility to be a revolutionary change.

Time will tell....
 
LP can drive multiple monitors, through a single port, so now you're just limited by what the GPU can do.
Can it really?
Latest displayport version has 5.4Gb/s per lane and 1-4 lanes.
Think about 27" 3d display with 10-bit colors.
2560x1440x30x120= 13.3Gb/s.

So very soon this revolutionary new waporware cord-for-all isn't enough.
And to fully enjoy LP you need new routers, cabling and sockets to your house.
Total cost will be too much "for rest of us".

Meantime HDbaseT is already on the shelf and it uses existing ethernet cabling.

I still can't find any reason why Apple would be interested about LP.

1. Apple doesn't like docks. Using LP would need one.

2. Apple doesn't like expandability. LP and myriads of dongles would make computer complicated "for the rest of us" and therefore Apple should answer the support phone more often. That would eat profits, so it is out of question.

3. LP port will be more expensive than usb3 port. Apple wants to save every penny for profits.

4. Apple has been lagging years with new hardware tech and especially faster ports on their products, so why would they change their style now? I'd guess that it's more propable that they would stop designing new macs at all.

5. Usb3 cords were 3 meters in 2009 and now they are 5 m. I guess they are just getting longer in the future. 99% of users does not need longer cables than that. Apple will not make products for the remaining percent anymore.

6. There has been many years displays that were conncted to computer with usb2. Usb3 will make this more common. So maybe usb3 will be next big thing in cheap display interfaces.

Every interface has 4 main charasteristics: speed, (legacy) interoperability, distance and price. When usb3 is better or good enough in all of those, I can't imagine success to something more expensive.
 
Can it really?
Latest displayport version has 5.4Gb/s per lane and 1-4 lanes.
Think about 27" 3d display with 10-bit colors.
2560x1440x30x120= 13.3Gb/s.

Apple will not make products for the remaining percent anymore.

And how many people have displays like that?

6. There has been many years displays that were conncted to computer with usb2. Usb3 will make this more common. So maybe usb3 will be next big thing in cheap display interfaces.

USB video adapters are external GPUs. They cost a lot more than a single LP cable would cost
 
And how many people have displays like that?
I doesn't matter how common they are now.
You have to think at least a decade in the future when talking about new interconnect standard.
Let's pretend that LP will be available in 2012.
I'd guess that at least half of displays sold in 2017 are 3d.
Maybe all, because it might be cheaper to manufacture only 3d panels, not 2d and 3d.
If you look at the most sold display size & resolution in 2005 and now, it is quite modest assumption that the most sold screen in 2017 would be 27" 2560x1440.
USB video adapters are external GPUs. They cost a lot more than a single LP cable would cost
You are not familiar with DisplayLink and UbiSync?
Samsung's LD220HD is something like less than 200€...
 
I doesn't matter how common they are now.
You have to think at least a decade in the future when talking about new interconnect standard.
Let's pretend that LP will be available in 2012.
I'd guess that at least half of displays sold in 2017 are 3d.
Maybe all, because it might be cheaper to manufacture only 3d panels, not 2d and 3d.
If you look at the most sold display size & resolution in 2005 and now, it is quite modest assumption that the most sold screen in 2017 would be 27" 2560x1440.

You are not familiar with DisplayLink and UbiSync?
Samsung's LD220HD is something like less than 200€...

My guess is that your guesses won't hold up. 3-D is a fad, one that will quickly fade. By 2017 people will be looking back and saying, "Remember when 3-D was all the rage?". I asked my local BestBuy sales guy recently about 3-D and he said fewer and fewer people are asking for it. I don't know anyone amongst my friends and acquaintences who went out and bought a monitor or HDTV specifically for it's 3-D capabilities. Not one.

Also, the most sold display size in 2017 will likely still be 20-22" as it is now and has been for quite some time. Businesses account for most of the displays sold, and most office workers are not going to accept squinting at text on a 27" display, nor will they have room for it on their desk.

As for the general discussion, I don't see why LP needs to be compatible with USB 3.0 or any other connection. Look at the myriad different connectivities there are presently: HDMI, DVI, VGA, Mini-displayport, USB 2.0, firewire 400, firewire 800, eSATA, and now USB 3.0. We are drowning in different connection types. If LP has to be compatible with USB 3.0 to be successful what about all the other connection types? How to explain their introduction and success? Both Apple and Intel have repeatedly said that LP and USB 3.0 can, and probably should, co-exist.

If LightPeak (not CopperPeak) gets developed and implemented the way Apple and Intel hope, then within 5 years there will be only two connection types: LP and USB 3.0, both of which will get faster and faster (e.g. LP v3, USB 4.0). LightPeak will then replace the sort of standard that SATA and eSATA are now, and USB 3.0 will be for peripherals. All other connectivities will become obsolete.
 
Squinting? Not with Windows 7....

Also, the most sold display size in 2017 will likely still be 20-22" as it is now and has been for quite some time. Businesses account for most of the displays sold, and most office workers are not going to accept squinting at text on a 27" display, nor will they have room for it on their desk.

Most business people will be running Windows 7, which has pretty good support for resolution independence.

I've helped a number of friends tweak a couple of settings to get "fonts for the blind", and I have a T61p (15.4" 1920x1200 screen) laptop that I usually run at 125% or 135% magnification.

In addtion to systemwide font settings, some applications like Internet Explorer have application-specific magnification settings.

If you're squinting at your high DPI screen, you should consider getting a more advanced operating system.
 
Why would light peak be implemented on usb3 it has no use for all those pins or all that copper. Remember copper is starting to get expensive. The point is have an optical spec ready to to replace longer distance applications as the price rises. Also to as little copper as possible for short length cable devices that need power or fallback data if the cost is to high.

It would make more sense to backbone it on usb2 better still for oem like apple and Sony who want to make small device for the higher end market who'll pay for it microUSB. Maybe a more robust multiple bus cable for long runs like Ethernet copper replacement after all it's not often you run a single Ethernet cable to a location without wishing pretty soon you had another one or four there.
 
Most business people will be running Windows 7, which has pretty good support for resolution independence.

I've helped a number of friends tweak a couple of settings to get "fonts for the blind", and I have a T61p (15.4" 1920x1200 screen) laptop that I usually run at 125% or 135% magnification.

In addtion to systemwide font settings, some applications like Internet Explorer have application-specific magnification settings.

If you're squinting at your high DPI screen, you should consider getting a more advanced operating system.

Points taken. We still use XP at work, so my statement was clouded by that. Win 7 is definitely better at resolution independence. Still, I doubt most businesses will want to bear the cost of 27" displays when 22" would still be suitable for most office workers in 2017.


Why would light peak be implemented on usb3 it has no use for all those pins or all that copper. Remember copper is starting to get expensive. The point is have an optical spec ready to to replace longer distance applications as the price rises. Also to as little copper as possible for short length cable devices that need power or fallback data if the cost is to high.

It would make more sense to backbone it on usb2 better still for oem like apple and Sony who want to make small device for the higher end market who'll pay for it microUSB. Maybe a more robust multiple bus cable for long runs like Ethernet copper replacement after all it's not often you run a single Ethernet cable to a location without wishing pretty soon you had another one or four there.

I really don't understand why LP needs to be backboned or shoehorned or piggybacked or otherwise made compatible with any other connectivity port. It can stand on its own. We don't demand this of HDMI, DVI or Displayport. We run out and buy adapters and dongles.
 
Points taken. We still use XP at work, so my statement was clouded by that. Win 7 is definitely better at resolution independence.

Agreed that XP had rather limited ability to scale font sizes and graphics elements for high-DPI displays.


Still, I doubt most businesses will want to bear the cost of 27" displays when 22" would still be suitable for most office workers in 2017.

Agreed, although I addressed the issue of squinting, not cost.

Many of the smaller monitors, though, are 1080p so you still have the "squinting" problem without decent resolution independence.

For example, the 21.5" LED Dell P2211H for $199 is 1920x1080, so its pixel pitch is only slightly higher than the 27" Apple. (Or, the Dell's DPI is only slightly lower than the Apple.)

Many of the wide-screen (and especially 1080p) displays have relatively high DPIs even in the smaller sizes.
 
My guess is that your guesses won't hold up. 3-D is a fad, one that will quickly fade. By 2017 people will be looking back and saying, "Remember when 3-D was all the rage?". I asked my local BestBuy sales guy recently about 3-D and he said fewer and fewer people are asking for it. I don't know anyone amongst my friends and acquaintences who went out and bought a monitor or HDTV specifically for it's 3-D capabilities. Not one.
You could say same for led-backlight or fullHD in desktop displays or 5ms refresh speed or any other technical advancement in displays. Nobody buys a new display for just one advanced feature, but still they evolve all the time. Already 3d tv's are just a little bit more expensive than 2d's and way cheaper than same size/resolution displays were few years ago.
When goggless 3d costs less than 10% more than same display with only 2d, everybody buys 3d version, just in case.
Same thing happened with optical drives. Nobody bought cd-drive anymore, when you got dvd-drive for the same price. Regardless of if you need to burn dvd's or not.
Also, the most sold display size in 2017 will likely still be 20-22" as it is now and has been for quite some time. Businesses account for most of the displays sold, and most office workers are not going to accept squinting at text on a 27" display, nor will they have room for it on their desk.
It's pretty hard to link Displaysearch's documents her for evidence, since you need to pay for them, but sizes and resolutions have got bigger all the time and who has so small office desk that can't fit 65cm (26") wide display to it?
Maybe these would help:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_display.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_resolution_higher.asp
Jan2010&11 most used resolution: 1280x1024
Jan2008: 1024x768
Jan2003: 800x600.
Also few years ago 17" was most bought office display. Then 19" and now 22".
I just don't know why they would stop to 22".
Many people like to view 2 documents side by side. Bigger is always easier.
And there has been researches that bigger screen increases working efficiency.
As for the general discussion, I don't see why LP needs to be compatible with USB 3.0 or any other connection. Look at the myriad different connectivities there are presently: HDMI, DVI, VGA, Mini-displayport, USB 2.0, firewire 400, firewire 800, eSATA, and now USB 3.0. We are drowning in different connection types. If LP has to be compatible with USB 3.0 to be successful what about all the other connection types? How to explain their introduction and success? Both Apple and Intel have repeatedly said that LP and USB 3.0 can, and probably should, co-exist.

If LightPeak (not CopperPeak) gets developed and implemented the way Apple and Intel hope, then within 5 years there will be only two connection types: LP and USB 3.0, both of which will get faster and faster (e.g. LP v3, USB 4.0). LightPeak will then replace the sort of standard that SATA and eSATA are now, and USB 3.0 will be for peripherals. All other connectivities will become obsolete.
I fail to see where the masses would need LP. Usb3 is fast enough for everything for this decade. LP has to be more expensive, so it is economically impossible that LP would replace usb.
So LP will remain high-end niche and for that, it isn't even fast enough for high-end displays.
So if LP is ever going to survive there will be 2 kind of computers: cheap one that have have only usb (which also handles low-end displays) and expensive one that have at least usb, displayport/hdmi and possibly LP.
 
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