Lines of Resellers Returning New iPads at Fifth Avenue Apple Store

[lostngone]

heh

The article says there were some people returning up to 30 iPad?!?
I would say fine, you want to return your iPad be my guest. Apple just needs a policy that states you can only return X items per store per day.


If these people want their money back make THEM work for it and not waste Apple's time.

 

[chairguru22]

Wirelessly posted

If I was the manager I would refuse to refund them just for the lulz!

In the UK you don't have to refund something if there is nothing wrong with it. Many stores have a 14 day return policy. But that's all it is, a policy. Managers can and sometimes will overrule it.

UK apple stores? I find that having a strict return policy to be poor customer service. You see a lot of stores these days have very lax or liberal policies. Apple, Costco, Kohl's, JCP, you can practically return anything. At Costco you can use a couch for 3 years and return it, no joke. Do people abuse that policy? sure. But that's why people like shopping there for all of their stuff.

In this case, it's not like Apple is losing out on any money. They can just take those iPads and put them back on the shelves. Why should Apple care if someone wants to return them?

 

[lostngone]

Conspiracy theory

Okay this one is a little over the top but bear(or bare if you're into that) with me.

What does Apple do with these "unopened" units? What process does Apple follow when they re-sell unopened devices as refurbished?

Think about it, even if Apple unboxes these units and reloads/re-flashes them maybe someone has figured out a way to load malicious code that escapes the erase/reload(in the baseband for example)? I doubt this is the case in this example because if the Chinese government wanted to load malicious code into iPads to spy on people they would just payoff someone in the factory in China to do it.

 

[vartanarsen]

I have a friend that works at an Apple Store and he said that they were dealing with unscrupulous resellers who returned shrink wrapped "New iPads" that actually had iPad 2's inside. Crazy.

Crazy.... I Had to return mine for a legitimate reason.....and the genius never opened up my box....i cold have had my iPad2 in there as he didnt even open. He box

 

[AppleHater]

Peoples from the land of fake eggs never stop amaze us. If curious google fake eggs china.

 

[philipma1957]

Lets see apple's pile of cash is 98 billion

and All I hear on this thread is efffff the resellers.

How many people on this thread purchased an iPad2 Last year from a reseller. If you did please show a receipt for it.


By the way I sell on ebay a lot and I buy a lot on ebay. I also post test after test on this site and other sites. I could not to this without my ebay sales financing all the gear I buy to test.
I would really like to see some proof from someone that belong to this site getting gouged by those iPad resellers.

Lets see how many minus points I get for this POST!

 

[lostngone]

Lets see apple's pile of cash is 98 billion

and All I hear on this thread is efffff the resellers.

How many people on this thread purchased an iPad2 Last year from a reseller. If you did please show a receipt for it.


By the way I sell on ebay a lot and I buy a lot on ebay. I also post test after test on this site and other sites. I could not to this without my ebay sales financing all the gear I buy to test.
I would really like to see some proof from someone that belong to this site getting gouged by those iPad resellers.

Lets see how many minus points I get for this POST!

This is gray market sales, unless you are an authorized re-seller Apple can refuse to warranty/service and support these devices if they wanted.
We are NOT talking about personal sales(or reselling) here we are talking about someone buying a reselling 20-30 iPads as a business and then returning them when they can't make a profit. I don't really care that they are doing this I am just upset they are wasting Apple's(and mine) time doing it and creating artificial shortages for people that really want them.

 

[righteye]

Wirelessly posted

The China custom charge a higher import tax, as high as 130-140$. No surprise that they came to return. But surprised that those returners are young and pretty.

They are probably just mules with with some organised and wealthy "backers"

 

[Ian1982]

Why do they have the policy in place then? Is there a fine print saying that they have the right to refuse to return the money back to the customer if there is nothing wrong with the product? I've never had a problem like this in Ireland (The Republic) but then again I've never done what these chinese resellers are doing.

For clarification:
Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, a consumer may be entitled to a refund, replacement, repair and/or compensation where goods are faulty or not as described. In other cases, for example, where the consumer has bought an item of clothing in the wrong size, or they have changed their mind, or an item is an unwanted gift, there is normally no automatic right to return goods.

There are a few exceptions to this rule, including goods sold by mail order or over the Internet, and some goods sold to a consumer during a visit to their home. An acceptable returns policy would read:

‘Returns Policy. If you change your mind about your purchase, please return the unused goods to us with the original till receipt within 14 days, and we will offer you an exchange or a credit note. This does not affect your legal rights, including your right to claim a refund, replacement, repair and/or compensation where the goods are faulty or misdescribed.'

Cited from the trading standards official website... hope it explains.

 

[bruinsrme]

Anyone know how much a company has to absord when requesting a chargeback from a credit card company?

 

[ThemePro]

I thought Apple had a policy of only selling two iPads per customers and these 'resellers' obviously bypassed it. They should only be allowed to return two at a time but this phenomena is in line with other stories that indicate the iPad is not selling well in China.

I'd also be curious if this large volume of returns are being subtracted from the 'record' sales numbers that Apple was breathlessly touting.

 

[WhoAmI2]

Listen man, I don't have an ego (and believe me, I have definitely met people who have egos!). I thought the guy insulted me and I stood up for myself. He has since apologized and seems like a great guy. I'm up for any challenge spreading technology to those interested in it, and I can make technology seem cool and interesting, which is probably why I'm not considered a weirdo. I just got my grandpa set up on a laptop and taught an elderly lady at my school how to use an iPhone 4S. She loves Siri! I would rather interact with other people than sit in a dark room typing all day, as a teenager.

If you're going to sit here and call, I guess you would think a "stupid teenager" a "class A stuck up asshat", then you clearly have your own issues that need to be worked out.

It's not what you're saying it's how you're saying it. My poo didn't stink when I was 16 either, I understand the tood but when several older, wiser members tell you you're acting like a, well asshat maybe you should just take their word for it and tone it down a bit. Just a thought.

I was going to pick up a few and re-sell but got hung up in the process. Bought 3. keeping one, giving one to mom and will probably take the last one back if I can't sell/swap it for more $ than I paid. I guess I can't bitch about "scalping" because I typically make a TON on new releases. I bought 3 iPhone 4's and after buying all the phones, pay-pal, ebay and shipping fees I cleared $650 and paid for my 32g iPhone 4. I say if you have the ability why not make a buck. Any other person has the same opportunity to buy the device as I do. It's not my fault they couldn't get one before I got my 3. If someone wants to pay me $950 for one i4 and $975 for another, who am I to argue?

 

[ozziegn]

I don't see what's the big fuss over people returning these iPads.

I mean, as long as the units are unopened then what's the big deal?

retailers need to refund their money and get over it.

 

[jlc1978]

Good luck trying that crap in the states. If it is your policy when you sell it then I bought it under the assumption that I could return it. The policy does not have any stipulations on it. That is not my fault, it is Apples. Why they don't have a limit on the number you can buy, I don't know. 30 seems a bit excessive.

Actually, Apple expressly has a clause dealing with purchases for resale:
Consumers Only

The Apple Store sells and ships products to end-user customers only. You may not purchase products at the Apple Store for resale, and we reserve the right to refuse or cancel your order if we suspect you are doing so. And we’re pretty good at figuring that out . . .

Could they use that to refuse returns? Not sure, but it would seem that the purchaser violated the terms of the agreement. My guess is they simply view it as a cost of doing business and move the returns out as refurbs; the numbers are probably sufficiently small that they simply aren't worth worrying about.


If they wanted to be strict about it, they might want to ensure the person doing the return was the original buyer - such as match credit card info with an ID and or require the original credit card - and if it didn't match or they don't have the card, refuse the return. Of course, for cash purchases, they could get an extra 10 days float:

For returns to an Apple Retail Store for cash, cash equivalent, and check transactions over $250, Apple will mail a refund check to you within 10 business days.

 

[AnthonyHarris]

Wirelessly posted

If you try to return a USED product within 14 days they can and will refuse a cash refund, although they usually offer store credits. I had this problem with Phones 4 U. I think the case is somewhat different when something is unused and still in its packaging.

 

[jlc1978]

As far as I'm concerned what apple has done this time is excellent. Now if we could just sort out concert tickets the same way.

As an aside (and threadjack) concert promoters have no incentive to stop scalpers - they help ensure a sellout and those contribute directly to the profitability of the promoter; what pisses promoters off is that they can't get the higher prices scalpers charge. Rest assured if they could ensure a sellout and get scalper prices they would. In essence, the scalpers assume all the risk of low demand, while the promoters get a fixed revenue and known profit margin; for them the money's really in the ancillary sales at the concert anyway.

Of course, it is fun to get into events at a cut rate when demand is low - the scalper has a commodity whose value diminishes with each passing second; and often there are enough around that you can simply make a lowball offer until one accepts. I do it in joking kind of ways as to make it a pleasant experience and get the scalper in a mood to do business, but point out that since they still have a bunch of tickets and start time is less than 30 minutes away, do they want to eat them or lessen their loss by taking some money?

----------

Lots of iPad 3 around today at the reseller stores in Hong Kong for anyone that wanted one.

More importantly (to me) the new Apple TV was also available, though the price was a rather steep USD250.

Unfortunately Apple won't sell AppleTV here via the official Apple store for some unknown reason so we have no choice but to go to local resellers, I am hoping in a few weeks the price will drop to a more reasonable level (say around USD150) then I will get it.

Why not simply mail order it from an authorized reseller?

----------

Wirelessly posted



So true, so true. We've been young, They have never been old. IMO around the age 30-35 you start to gain a small amount of wisdom if your looking for it. Man age 12-25 I had NO CLUE. If you think you know something for sure that's prob a sign you know nothing about it

When I was 5, my parents were brilliant,
When I was 10, they were smart,
When I was 13, they were getting dumb,
When I was 17, they were the dumbest people I knew,
When I was 21, they were pretty smart after all,
When I was 30, they were brilliant.

it's amazing how life's clue by four works wonders when it whacks you across the side of the head a few times...

----------

Congratulations. You understood the first day of high school economics.

Yes, they are doing something sleazy, and what they are doing is gouging.

And it's pretty stupidly arrogant to tell the most valuable company in the world how they should be selling their products, particularly when you are doing it based on the first day (okay, maybe the first week) of HS economics.

Let's talk Econ101 - arbitrage is a perfectly normal response to price differences; and acts to restore pricing to a normal level. Apple responds by increasing supply which drives the arbitrage advantage to zero; in other cases such as commodities the underlying price rises in response.

Gray market goods are a classic example of arbitrage at work - when currency or pricing differences makes for arbitrage opportunities someone will generally take advantage if the return is sufficient.

Nothing sleazy - simple undergraduate college economics.

 

[crapbag8]

Bonus thought... Am I the only one that can imagine smelling 'Chinese Air' released from a freshly unboxed product? The air is captured in the product when the cover is put on and wrapped in plastic back in the factory in China. I always imagine is smells like fried rice with a hint of fortune cookie. Maybe Apple could infuse cleaner air to make the unboxing a perfect experience.

WTF?? And btw, they don't actually have fortune cookies in China.

 

[Kludge420]

Apple can easily add a discretionary restocking fee of 15% and have an internal policy of only charging it to these kinds of dirtbags.

----------

Let's talk Econ101 - arbitrage is a perfectly normal response to price differences; and acts to restore pricing to a normal level.

Sounds like someone drank the flavor-aid. Arbitrage is nothing but a leech on the free markets. It adds nothing and its only purpose is to profit off a market that has self regulated to a reasonable price point.

This is in reality what happens:

Price is affordable so many people can afford to buy.
Rich people can afford to pay more in a different market.
Douche nozzle buys up stock causing an artificial shortage.
There is no stock available at the reasonable price so only rich people can afford to buy now in the first market.
Manufacturer sees zero increased profit from second market or even home market.
With higher prices in home market there is less demand so manufacturer makes less money while douche nozzle profits.
Manufacturer is forced to raise prices to make up for lost income.
Douche nozzle still leeches off home market share till even rich people refuse to buy.
Profits are now much more volatile due to massively decreased home market.
Manufacturer can't be sure of income due to volatility.
Manufacturer can't get loans for business due to instability in market.
Manufacturer goes out of business.

Arbitrage is a lie told to children to justify greed. And you believed it.

 

[jlc1978]

Sounds like someone drank the flavor-aid. Arbitrage is nothing but a leech on the free markets. It adds nothing and its only purpose is to profit off a market that has self regulated to a reasonable price point.

You clearly have no concept of what arbitrage is or the role it plays in a market.

As fo a reasonable price point, there is no such thing in a market - only supply and demand.

 

[fruitycups]

Wirelessly posted

Those scappers. They should put up a new rule regulating this

 

[kas23]

Can someone explain to me how the iPad 3 can be in such high demand and everyone is buying one when the shipping times are now nil and resellers are now dumping their extras?

Not trying to be a smartass, just curious. I know this could easily be explained by increased supply, but is there any objective evidence that supplies are much higher this time around?

 

[OrangeSVTguy]

They should have limited them to one return per transaction. Then back to the end of line

 

[charlituna]

The article says there were some people returning up to 30 iPad?!?
I would say fine, you want to return your iPad be my guest. Apple just needs a policy that states you can only return X items per store per day.

That just makes more work for Apple, not the 'buyers'. Because then multiple stores and workers have to deal with the people in terms of ringing up the transactions, line management etc.

The only 'work' they will make these people do is tell them that unfortunately only transactions under X amount (say $250) can be refunded in cash and they will have to wait for a check to be sent by mail and no they can't split the refund amount to get that X in cash and the rest by check. The system will only do one kind of refund in a transaction. The only other choice they might offer is a gift card but the resellers aren't likely to go for that since they can't really mark those up and they can't cash them out in most states until they have used up all but like $10 of the value (if they can do it then even)

----------

This is gray market sales, unless you are an authorized re-seller Apple can refuse to warranty/service and support these devices if they wanted.

Which is why these resellers use the Apple Store as their source. That sale puts the unit into the warranty system. And that warranty transfers if the unit changes owners. Same as if I bought it from the Apple Store here in LA and gave it to you as a gift.

it is cases like when TJ Maxx got a pile of iPads that were believed to have been bought off a reseller that ordered them and couldn't sell them that have warranty concerns. Those units were possibly never 'sold' until TJ Maxx did it and thus weren't in the system. Which is why Steve, Tim etc were quick to point out that TJ Maxx isn't authorized to sell iPads and thus there's no warranty (or a reduced one if they did actually buy them end user style to get them into the system)

----------

I don't see what's the big fuss over people returning these iPads.

Nothing. Other than cheering the fact that scalpers that would have jacked up the price to as much as 3 times the official one got pwned by Apple's quick rollout.

Apple is returning them no issues.

----------

The Apple Store sells and ships products to end-user customers only. You may not purchase products at the Apple Store for resale, and we reserve the right to refuse or cancel your order if we suspect you are doing so. And we’re pretty good at figuring that out . . .[/i]

Could they use that to refuse returns?

Nope. Once they made the sale they made it. That policy would only allow them to refuse to make the original sale.

----------

Apple can easily add a discretionary restocking fee of 15% and have an internal policy of only charging it to these kinds of dirtbags.

And get sued for unfair business practices and in this case, racial profiling since it would only be charged to asians

----------

They should have limited them to one return per transaction. Then back to the end of line

Great. That keeps them in the store longer and makes more work dealing with them.

 

[superman23]

Anyone know how much a company has to absord when requesting a chargeback from a credit card company?

100% + a fee such as $10-20

also there are a lot of jerks these days who think that chargebacks are paid for by the credit card company and is a legitimate way to get an easy refund on something

 

[Kludge420]

You clearly have no concept of what arbitrage is or the role it plays in a market.

As fo a reasonable price point, there is no such thing in a market - only supply and demand.

You clearly have no concept of sustainable economics. Business schools are full of people like you who think raping economies for profit is a perfectly acceptable business practice without regard for the decimation of said economies.

You really need to do some real research and learn some basic real world economics away from people who's only interest is in self profit. Macro economics isn't about how to run a business, it's about how to run a world. Too many people like you think they're one in the same.

----------

And get sued for unfair business practices and in this case, racial profiling since it would only be charged to asians

True and good point. Bad idea on my part.