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Lines of Resellers Returning New iPads at Fifth Avenue Apple Store
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My apologies for not clarifying that promises made by a vendor to prospective buyers constitutes a promissory element of a contract of sale upon acceptance of an offer to purchase on the buyer's behalf. Given the variations in contract law in the respective jurisdictions of the UK I felt that this was best left out of discussion (and somewhat implied by the whole individual policy thing).
Hi Tech
The resellers or sometimes called diverters, shop at all places, big department stores, they buy on sale and on credit and ship back to china. They take bulk items and break apart to resale at higher markups. The ipad 3 is being available all over kinda broke the reseller game. But they should charge a restocking fee if they buy more then a few units. Many online stores do this, ie Dell, Best Buy. In a way its like money laundering.
The resellers or sometimes called diverters, shop at all places, big department stores, they buy on sale and on credit and ship back to china. They take bulk items and break apart to resale at higher markups. The ipad 3 is being available all over kinda broke the reseller game. But they should charge a restocking fee if they buy more then a few units. Many online stores do this, ie Dell, Best Buy. In a way its like money laundering.
a) Conflicting reports? I take slight issue with this given my post explains the circumstances under which goods may be returned to a vendor according to the relevant statutory provisions.
b) If you're going to say '.. [sic] Fact [sic]', then at least point your reader to the exact authority upon which you base your proposition (a section, even a hyperlink to an authoritative online source?).
c) Please read the Act before making vague claims about what options may and may not be available to consumers under the provisions therein.
I live in Hong Kong and when the iPad2 came out I wanted to get one. It was impossible - unless you wanted to pay 3 times the retail price at a resellers store. I told them to take a flying leap.
When the iPad3 came out I happened to be in the US and ordered one online to pick up at (ironically), the 5th Avenue store, as I didn't want to miss out again (and refuse to pay more than retail). I took a hit on the sales tax, but that was fine by me to stick it to the scalpers.
As far as I'm concerned what apple has done this time is excellent. Now if we could just sort out concert tickets the same way.
When the iPad3 came out I happened to be in the US and ordered one online to pick up at (ironically), the 5th Avenue store, as I didn't want to miss out again (and refuse to pay more than retail). I took a hit on the sales tax, but that was fine by me to stick it to the scalpers.
As far as I'm concerned what apple has done this time is excellent. Now if we could just sort out concert tickets the same way.
isnt there a EU law that says u can return anything within 14 days for no reason? or is the UK excluded from this when it comes to EU stuff as usual
Online only I'm afraid.
They still get the last laugh
Sadly these resellers still get the last laugh. Yes they were unable to cash in on their investment but what other circumstances do you know of where you can make a bad investment and yet get back 100% of your cash no questions asked?
Not many I suspect.
Sadly these resellers still get the last laugh. Yes they were unable to cash in on their investment but what other circumstances do you know of where you can make a bad investment and yet get back 100% of your cash no questions asked?
Not many I suspect.
What a horrible mess from either a consumer or merchant standpoint.
So Apple takes these things back, pulls off the cellophane proves they are the new iPad, and puts it back on the shelf. Do they go as refurbished or new?
If they go as new, I sure the hell wouldn't want it compared to a brand new one. God knows what the resellers did to it.
If they go as refurbished, Apple takes an unnecessary loss on a product.
Bonus thought... Am I the only one that can imagine smelling 'Chinese Air' released from a freshly unboxed product? The air is captured in the product when the cover is put on and wrapped in plastic back in the factory in China. I always imagine is smells like fried rice with a hint of fortune cookie. Maybe Apple could infuse cleaner air to make the unboxing a perfect experience.
So Apple takes these things back, pulls off the cellophane proves they are the new iPad, and puts it back on the shelf. Do they go as refurbished or new?
If they go as new, I sure the hell wouldn't want it compared to a brand new one. God knows what the resellers did to it.
If they go as refurbished, Apple takes an unnecessary loss on a product.
Bonus thought... Am I the only one that can imagine smelling 'Chinese Air' released from a freshly unboxed product? The air is captured in the product when the cover is put on and wrapped in plastic back in the factory in China. I always imagine is smells like fried rice with a hint of fortune cookie. Maybe Apple could infuse cleaner air to make the unboxing a perfect experience.
I was only allowed to preorder two.
Maybe you should only be allowed to return two.
Excellent point. If you can only buy 2, you should obviously only be able to return 2. If you buy more than 2, on separate days, then it is your own damn fault for buying more without trying the 2 you have.
They won't because they want to get them out of the store.
But you can bet that they will be requiring a receipt, probably making all cash returns go out as a mailed check and not actually cash (since that would kill their cash supply for change etc) and probably opening up every box to make sure there really is an iPad inside and not paper etc like some scammers tried during the iPad 2 launch. and making sure that the serial on the iPad is the same as the box&receipt and no one is slipping an iPad 2 in the box
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You can do that in the US as well. But there are certain conditions. Like you have to clearly state at the time of sale that it is final. And you can't do it selectively. You can't say that all iPad sales are final in NYC but in the rest of the country they are not. Nor can you profile customers and say you won't return whatever from particular groups (remember when Apple was called out as racist because they wouldn't take cash for an iPad from a poor black woman.)
Frankly I think it is in their interest to take them back. Even if they are opening the boxes to prove they are what they should be, resealing the box isn't that costly and then they have the models back to official sell and the resellers are out the product to try to make a profit
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Depends on what you call 'technical'
if it is a 'what are the specs in this computer, can it run X program" that will be a sales person.
but if it's a tech support question the sales staff are apparently prohibited from answering those and are supposed to refer you to the official techs (i.e. the Geniuses)
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It's 16 outside of a few odd categories like farming jobs and in some states things like the public library, fast food etc.
But again, companies that require you to sign legal documents like an NDA can be restricted to 18 and up depending on what is the legal age for signing such documents in your state. in most it is 18. And companies generally like to follow one rule so Apple sets it at 18.
Sorry that that wounds your ego (how very typical 'normal' teenager) but it is the rule and how smart you are and how many apps you wrote etc is beside the point. if you are so smart why would you want to work retail anyway. it sucks. you are treated like crap by customers all the time, you generally get lousy hours etc. Use all that knowledge and start your own business.
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you really think that Apple would hire in some 16 year old to work the Bar. Heck no. You have to work the trenches for that.
And I really do wonder if you could explain to some 70 year old woman that barely understands what the Internet is how to work her iPad without her thinking you are rude. Because frankly your replies on her make you sound like a class A stuck up asshat.
Listen man, I don't have an ego (and believe me, I have definitely met people who have egos!). I thought the guy insulted me and I stood up for myself. He has since apologized and seems like a great guy. I'm up for any challenge spreading technology to those interested in it, and I can make technology seem cool and interesting, which is probably why I'm not considered a weirdo. I just got my grandpa set up on a laptop and taught an elderly lady at my school how to use an iPhone 4S. She loves Siri! I would rather interact with other people than sit in a dark room typing all day, as a teenager.
If you're going to sit here and call, I guess you would think a "stupid teenager" a "class A stuck up asshat", then you clearly have your own issues that need to be worked out.
If a reanimated, 117-year-old Babe Ruth was selling hot dogs at the ballpark, I'd buy two!
Wirelessly posted
There's a lot of confusion here with regards to UK Consumer Law, and that last Copy + Paste from the "Sale of Goods Act 1979" (as though nothing supercedes it) simply confounded the issue.
Any consumer has a statutory right anywhere in the UK (including "Distance-Selling" (Online)) to return any goods to a store during a 14-Day period following purchase providing the items are in an unused condition & upon production of a verifiable Proof Of Purchase (this can be a receipt, bank statement, or even simply an employee of the store witnessing the transaction). Many stores extend this beyond 30 Day as Store Policy, particularly over the Christmas period, so as to not dissuade Customers from purchasing items as gifts only to be unable to return the goods come January. Outside of the initial 14-Day period, it is left to the discretion of the manager as to whether to restock the goods. Until then, the Store has a legal obligation to refund.
The only exceptions to this are items that clearly cannot be resold due to hygiene reasons even where it appears the items haven't been used (eg. Earrings, Underwear etc.). Even in these instances, the store has a legal responsibility to explain these exemptions to you at the Point of Sale.
Qualifications? Six Years in retail (x5 as a Store Manager (Argos)) & a Law Conversion on my English Degree (+ LPC) from University of Exeter, specialising in Consumer Law.
I suspect with regards to these Chinese resellers that the returns have little to do with Supply & Demand. These iPads would have been purchased in anticipation of Stock Shortages, with a view to the resellers being in a position to sell at an inflated price while Stock replenished. Where these shortages failed to materialise to the degree that the resellers expected, they're now returning retail stock as they will presumably have an avenue to purchase with some level of reseller discounting through the standard Distribution Channel.
This happens all the time where stock shortages on any item are expected. I used to see it all the time around the launch period of games consoles etc.
There's a lot of confusion here with regards to UK Consumer Law, and that last Copy + Paste from the "Sale of Goods Act 1979" (as though nothing supercedes it) simply confounded the issue.
Any consumer has a statutory right anywhere in the UK (including "Distance-Selling" (Online)) to return any goods to a store during a 14-Day period following purchase providing the items are in an unused condition & upon production of a verifiable Proof Of Purchase (this can be a receipt, bank statement, or even simply an employee of the store witnessing the transaction). Many stores extend this beyond 30 Day as Store Policy, particularly over the Christmas period, so as to not dissuade Customers from purchasing items as gifts only to be unable to return the goods come January. Outside of the initial 14-Day period, it is left to the discretion of the manager as to whether to restock the goods. Until then, the Store has a legal obligation to refund.
The only exceptions to this are items that clearly cannot be resold due to hygiene reasons even where it appears the items haven't been used (eg. Earrings, Underwear etc.). Even in these instances, the store has a legal responsibility to explain these exemptions to you at the Point of Sale.
Qualifications? Six Years in retail (x5 as a Store Manager (Argos)) & a Law Conversion on my English Degree (+ LPC) from University of Exeter, specialising in Consumer Law.
I suspect with regards to these Chinese resellers that the returns have little to do with Supply & Demand. These iPads would have been purchased in anticipation of Stock Shortages, with a view to the resellers being in a position to sell at an inflated price while Stock replenished. Where these shortages failed to materialise to the degree that the resellers expected, they're now returning retail stock as they will presumably have an avenue to purchase with some level of reseller discounting through the standard Distribution Channel.
This happens all the time where stock shortages on any item are expected. I used to see it all the time around the launch period of games consoles etc.
Hoping I don't get banned.
The only response I can muster to this is..what the #$!% is wrong with you?
In the UK, just like the USA, the vast majority of reputable retailers (including Apple) accept "no questions asked" returns within a limited period after sale.
There are a few notable exceptions to this, such as a vile shoe retailer known as "Office", as my girlfriend found out. But you quickly learn not to shop at those places.
The point is, that there isn't a law that requires retails to accept returns (unless mis-sold or faulty, etc). There isn't such a law in the USA, either.
There is no such requirement, for physical high-street retailers, in the UK.
You may be thinking of online & mail-order retailers, where there is a legal "7 day cooling off period" where they are required to accept returns.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/mar/09/consumers-right-to-return-online-goods
That's all the purchasers fault. Why should a seller be responsible for a mistake the buyer makes?
Nothing supersedes the SoGA 1979 in the UK except the subsequent minor amendments to it in the noughties. If you are convinced through your Argos experience that there is a statutory right to a refund on unwanted and unused goods for up to a fortnight after purchase then perhaps you might be kind enough to provide us with said provisions in the SoGA. The DSR are a separate addition for specific classes of purchase - i.e. remotely or from door to door sales - and do not apply wholesale to in store purchases.
The only conflation I see here is an inability to distinguish between Argos store policy and statutory legislation. Frankly, you should know better.
Here is the Office of Fair Trading's take on the matter:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/sogahome/sogaexplained/
I used to like teaching people to use computers just like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee....
No, in all seriousness, I got burned out after a job in retail. It's ok to be the "friendly local computer guru" once in a while, but having droves and droves of people coming to me posing the same stupid questions over and over again drained my soul.
I understand that most people don't understand these sorts of things, but trying to do right by explaining something technical only to have it fly from one ear, behind glassed over eyes, right out the other just depressed the hell out of me.
I will never work retail again. Customers are horrible.
It should. Apple got the stock right with the new iPad. I've never really understood the mentality of these people anyway, But as you point out, if a fee were to be applied, it might dissuade them in future.
I don't stand in line, I deal through Apple directly, and had my new one on launch day, probably before most of the folks standing in line at least here in the UK...( UPS came early ) Maybe charge these speculators $50.00? Seems logical to me.
Fact
It's Friday night so forgive me for not wanting to get into nitty gritty about retail law. I work in retail so I ll practice what I preach and keep my customers thanks. I really have can't be arsed getting into details with someone like you. As far as Apple retail is concerned every customer can get a full refund of the want it, providing they have a receipt. Fact , because I worked for them for 2 years and this was the practice. Shout and quote SOG all you want, but in 'practice' a refund is given to keep the customer happy. Nothing further to add your honour.
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a) He was likely making his commet based on his own experience. Believe it or not, normal people often do this ...... and it's OK to do so.
b) It's great to have people as .. [sic] knowledgable [sic] as you on here that are so willing to force their opinion on us. Thanks!!
c) Nobody likes a lawyer!
Good day .. [sic] sir [sic] ..
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