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I understand why people start threads like this. But let me ask this question: How many of you, if you bought/were given/ acquired a brand new Mac, would wipe it and install Snow Leopard? I bet very few. Yes, we can choose to run whatever OS our hardware is capable of running, but it's not like you can really stay current with the latest apps and capabilities without running the latest OS.
 
Lion was created by Steve Jobs, a guy who envisioned himself as a superior human being that knew what was best for the world. Having convinced legions of people to stop thinking for themselves and become followers, he leaves behind a huge flock of evangelists that will work tirelessly for free. All in an effort to prove Steve was right.

I just finished Steve's autobiography and this pretty much sums it up. :)
 
I understand why people start threads like this. But let me ask this question: How many of you, if you bought/were given/ acquired a brand new Mac, would wipe it and install Snow Leopard? I bet very few. Yes, we can choose to run whatever OS our hardware is capable of running, but it's not like you can really stay current with the latest apps and capabilities without running the latest OS.

I think you can actually..at least for the most part...

I just wiped my HD and reinstalled 10.6 after a fresh install of 10.6 on my wifes macbook..it just feels "lighter"
 
Lion panders to every Mac enthusiast's mistaken impression that Apple can't go wrong. Surprise, it can.

While not as disastrous as Vista, Lion is not the big leap it hyped itself to be either. Many of the major new features, after sufficient exposure, still haven't gained enough approval from users to warrant their legitimacy (the Launchpad, Version & Resume, Mission Control). Serious questions should be asked as to the validity of these 'innovations' (as Steve Jobs likes to dub them) if they haven't met with the same influential success their precedents did in equal spans of time. I remember finding the button-less multi-touch trackpad, Spaces, Application,... very strange but instantly endearing features when I first came in contact with Snow Leopard on my first MacBook. Those weren't things I was inclined to try on my own; but after the system compelled me to live with them I was very glad that I did.

I can't measure the same satisfaction with the new features of Lion. Mission Control still comes off as a specially clustered, eye-candy, pseudo-innovative replacement of Spaces and Exposé. Some people praise how delightful it is to have different wallpapers on different desktops and feel that each desktop is truly devoted to their specialization. Come on. If you really assign each desktop with a specific purpose why are you even absorbing yourself in the wallpapers instead of working in your applications? Mac fans are starting to show the same bizarre, self-negating appreciation for their OS as do Windows fans, who find, among other things, the glassy effects in Windows abstractly but enormously compelling.

Mac used to be anything but that. It was elegant, streamlined, no-nonsense. Working on Snow Leopard imparts a very coherent sense of what the system is about: ease and productivity. Working on Lion only tells me how desperate Apple is to make OS X look like iOS. The innovations of Mac OS had never needed justifications; they simply proved themselves through usage and user experience. I feel that to defend Lion requires a deep commitment one has to shielding it from criticisms, rather than to responding to them.

I leave it to you to produce similar analogies with the other disappointing features of Lion (Launchpad, Version). These analogies should converge in the realization that Lion is a counter-intuitive, over-ambitious replacement of Snow Leopard rather than a grand improvement thereof, which it promised to be.

And it's not only the big things that devalue Lion. I used to counter less unnecessary hitches in Snow Leopard; to enumerate those in Lion is enervating. I trust that your own experience is able to confirm it.

I weary of downgrading to Snow Leopard, but everyday I can still feel my disappointment with Lion and wish that I had never upgraded.
 
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Lion panders to every Mac enthusiast's mistaken impression that Apple can't go wrong. Surprise, it can.

While not as disastrous as Vista, Lion is not the big leap it hyped itself to be either. Many of the major new features, after sufficient exposure, still haven't gained enough approval from users to warrant their legitimacy (the Launchpad, Version & Resume, Mission Control). Serious questions should be asked as to the validity of these 'innovations' (as Steve Jobs likes to dub them) if they haven't met with the same influential success their precedents did in equal spans of time. I remember finding the button-less multi-touch trackpad, Spaces, Application,... very strange but instantly endearing features when I first came in contact with Snow Leopard on my first MacBook. Those weren't things I was inclined to try on my own; but after the system compelled me to live with them I was very glad that I did.

I can't measure the same satisfaction with the new features of Lion. Mission Control still comes off as a specially clustered, eye-candy, pseudo-innovative replacement of Spaces and Exposé. Some people praise how delightful it is to have different wallpapers on different desktops and feel that each desktop is truly devoted to their specialization. Come on. If you really assign each desktop with a specific purpose why are you even absorbing yourself in the wallpapers instead of working in your applications? Mac fans are starting to show the same bizarre, self-negating appreciation for their OS as do Windows fans, who find, among other things, the glassy effects in Windows abstractly but enormously compelling.

Mac used to be anything but that. It was elegant, streamlined, no-nonsense. Working on Snow Leopard imparts a very coherent sense of what the system is about: ease and productivity. Working on Lion only tells me how desperate Apple is to make OS X look like iOS. The innovations of Mac OS had never needed justifications; they simply proved themselves through usage and user experience. I feel that to defend Lion requires a deep commitment one has to shielding it from criticisms, rather than to responding to them.

I leave it to you to produce similar analogies with the other disappointing features of Lion (Launchpad, Version). These analogies should converge in the realization that Lion is a counter-intuitive, over-ambitious replacement of Snow Leopard rather than a grand improvement thereof, which it promised to be.

And it's not only the big things that devalue Lion. I used to counter less unnecessary hitches in Snow Leopard; to enumerate those in Lion is enervating. I trust that your own experience is able to confirm it.

I weary of downgrading to Snow Leopard, but everyday I can still feel my disappointment with Lion and wish that I had never upgraded.

an astute and accurate analysis, one you will never find on daringfireball, or any other Apple-pandering website.

thank you for seeing the truth of the situation.
 
Lion panders to every Mac enthusiast's mistaken impression that Apple can't go wrong. Surprise, it can.

Lion is not going to appeal to every user. That applies to every version with every operating system.
 
I'm absolutely loving lion on my new 13" MBA, I think it adds a lot of that iOS "polish" yet all the Mac OS X power is still there and that's what's best about it.
 
is xcode supported on snow leopard?

Using app store to download xcode it says you need lion!
 
The train is leaving the station. Get on board or stay behind. Your choice.
It's this kind of mindless madness that gives Apple power over their users.

Newer is not always better, and blindly worshiping Apple without thinking for oneself is how Jobs built this cult like following. Some actually believe that Apple knows best, and adjust their lifestyle to comply.

There's a single word that comes to mind... gullible.
 
Due to Lion WiFi issues alone, I'd say stick with Snow Leopard. Lion, as much potential it has to be good, isn't good atm.
 
Due to Lion WiFi issues alone, I'd say stick with Snow Leopard. Lion, as much potential it has to be good, isn't good atm.

How widespread of an issue is that though that you feel it is reason alone to discourage the OP from upgrading? I have had zero problems concerning WiFi with Lion.
 
How widespread of an issue is that though that you feel it is reason alone to discourage the OP from upgrading? I have had zero problems concerning WiFi with Lion.

I have no idea how big or small this problem is, but for me. I've not incurred any problems with wifi on my 2010 MBP.

As for SL vs. Lion, I don't think I can really add much wisdom, that has not already been posted. I can give my opinion, and that is, I prefer Lion over SL. SL was great, but I've not incurred any problems with Lion either.
 
How widespread of an issue is that though that you feel it is reason alone to discourage the OP from upgrading? I have had zero problems concerning WiFi with Lion.

Well, the point I was trying to make was that it was a risk. WiFi could either work or fail, as far as I'm aware it only effects the MBA and White MacBook users, but I have heard of people with iMacs and MBPs having the issue as well. On top of that, Lion is still rather buggy and doesn't feel fully fleshed out.

All I was saying is that Lion is probably going to be a rather good OS. The ideas are there. But so are quite a few annoying bugs. And the features don't feel consistent and well integrated like on other Apple OSs. Given time with updates and more tweaks, this will be solved.
 
We aren't talking about big dollars here. My advice is to simply try it and if you don't like it move back to SL. Just make sure you have a good SL backup first before you do it.

There are WiFi issues and I have had them as well as people having sleep to wake issues with Lion. There are hacks to kind of fix this (involves using the drivers from SL on Lion) but if you are not the kind that wants to go this route then I'd say stick with SL.
 
Took a holiday to FL to see mom. She needed iCloud and hence lion on her MBP, 2010 13". She's your average email and safari consumer so I upgraded it for her.

Wifi would not work from sleep, and I ran out of time troubleshooting it. Will have to revisit a full reinstall when I have hours to do. Just works my ass.

I have yet to personally see a good Lion experience, my MBA went back to SL, my sons and wife's is iffy on Lion and quite frankly I find it a true POS OS.
 
Has Lion been fixed yet?

I got rid of it on my MBP and upgraded to Snow Leopard a few months back. I couldnt stand how bloated it is, slow, laggy transitions between animations, mission control is a COMPLETE failure (why are applications grouped? did apple forget people multitask? try working in the adobe creative suite, its a nightmare).
 
Has Lion been fixed yet?

I got rid of it on my MBP and upgraded to Snow Leopard a few months back. I couldnt stand how bloated it is, slow, laggy transitions between animations, mission control is a COMPLETE failure (why are applications grouped? did apple forget people multitask? try working in the adobe creative suite, its a nightmare).

Nope, it is pretty much the same.
 
I have no problems with Lion, other being a RAM gobler. Everything feels snappy with 8GB of RAM.
 
Apple is slowly destroying all my good will towards their OS by making it into iOS on the desktop. iOS is fine for iOS devices. I don't want my desktop being a big screen full of app icons where you can only buy apps from iTunes (seems to be the long term direction they're heading).

I used to love OSX compared to Windows and over time Windows has gotten less annoying and OSX has gotten more annoying. They never listen to their users or feedback. They just forge ahead and drop support for older stuff so you can either go back to Windows or put up with whatever new horrible thing they fancy (e.g. replacing Spaces with Mission Control with no option to use the older interface).

Meanwhile, if you stick with an OSX version you like (either by choice or by being forced to since they abandoned support for your hardware) you'll soon find your software drying up since so many like to require the latest (but not greatest) these days to even use it.

This is 10x worse in iOS where my 1st Gen iPod Touch is still perfectly usable...except that you can't get any software for it anymore since newer verisons of apps all require iOS V4.x or later. iTunes doesn't even look for the last usable version upgrade (if you forgot to upgrade to it before they replaced it with an incompatible version). It just says TOO FREAKING BAD. You can't search for software by iOS version either, meaning even IF there are Apps that still support iOS V3.x, good luck finding them since it won't tell you in some cases until you try to install it (especially on updates it says you have on the device, but can't install because they don't work with 3.x) or at least until you open it. If you could filter by minimum OS, you could at least see what's still available.

Imagine how this will translate in the future for OSX software through iTunes. Most web sites offer older versions for older OS versions even if they stopped supporting those OS versions in the latest ones, but you don't see this in iTunes. You just see ONE product. Get on the bandwagon and buy new hardware if you want an updated app!

Honestly, I'm amazed I could get the latest iTunes for my PPC whole house audio/video server. But I quickly found out (after updating my iPod 4G to iOS 5.1) that I can't WiFi sync in Leopard (even though WinXP CAN and it's from 2001; once again Apple supports the competing operating system back to the stone ages, but won't support their own OS even from a few years ago. And what is missing from Leopard that it can't sync over WiFi? My two Gen1 AppleTV units sync just fine over WiFi (that would even work with 10.4.x). So WTF is stopping it from syncing a simple iPod over WiFi other than Apple simply putting it on a "feature to withhold to encourage people to buy new hardware" list?

I was hoping without Steve Jobs that Apple would back-off this fast track road to hell and be more reasonable about the operating system staying professional instead of a consumer imitation of an iPhone and bring back support for their Pro line of software, etc. But it doesn't seem like it. The only improvement I've seen is that now Apple matches charitable contributions of their employees (Steve wouldn't even allow that since the only charity he ever cared about was himself).

I've always disliked Windows and I used to hate Microsoft (I used an Amiga 3000 until 1999 before I finally caved and bought a PC) and when I got my first (used) Mac in early 2007, it seemed like a breath of fresh air by comparison. The availability of the shell reminded me of the Amiga (I always disliked Classic MacOS for its lack of interface to the underlying system). I could get X11 apps (I had been playing around with Linux for some time and liked some things, but the overall experience still had snags and commercial software was like non-existent). I got my first AppleTV shortly after putting together my 93" home theater system and by early '08 I was on my way to having a disc-less entertainment system. When Intel came along, it seemed alright. They still supported PPC with Universal Binaries, etc. I bought my first MBP in late 2008 and set myself up with Logic Pro to record music.

But then with Snow Leopard came the drying up of the software for PPC (some apps almost immediately like Handbrake). By the time Lion came out, support for Leopard was non-existent save iTunes and now even that doesn't support all the features. And yet that very first PC I built in 1999 upgraded to XP can support ALL THOSE FEATURES that are missing in OSX from 2007. THAT is what is so freaking unnerving. Apple supports its competing operating system better than it does its own.
 
Took a holiday to FL to see mom. She needed iCloud and hence lion on her MBP, 2010 13". She's your average email and safari consumer so I upgraded it for her.

Wifi would not work from sleep, and I ran out of time troubleshooting it. Will have to revisit a full reinstall when I have hours to do. Just works my ass.

I have yet to personally see a good Lion experience, my MBA went back to SL, my sons and wife's is iffy on Lion and quite frankly I find it a true POS OS.

Spot on. Frustratingly, Apple has the notion that "high" "Lion" sales through the MAS equates to a popular and solid OS. They fail to realize that the high numbers of users is due to the highest ever amount of new OS X users and "Lion" is shipping with new systems, and most didn't realize how badly unpolished "Lion" is until spending the $29 online to upgrade. I'm hoping, sadly, that users will hold back from buying "Mountain Lion" and that 10.8 sales will be dismal, perhaps then will Apple listen. Until then, 75% of our reported developer bugs that are acknowledged are still open, many since the first DP1 of 10.7. In my ten years as a Mac user, I have never been disappointed in Apple. OS X and iOS need to remain separate and strong systems, not a partial incorporation into a desktop system.
 
I also have found Lion to be a big stop below Snow Leopard in terms of usability. It has a lot of good ideas but is really, really low on polish. Things like iCal and Address Book look like absolute crap while also providing lower levels of usability. I find that Versions add more work and worry to my workflow as opposed to making my life easier, which is what is supposed to do.

Mission Control really killed Lion for me and I am actually looking forward to selling my Macbook Air next week because I just hate using it. Which is sad because the hardware is amazing.

Tim Cook just doesn't have the "NO" mind set that Steve Jobs had and it really shows. The engineers aren't being pushed to do better or think things through and get things polished to perfection.
 
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