Louie makes an excellent point here about "why" this entire concept is flawed for these usage contexts.
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Liquid Glass - A must read critique
- Thread starter turbineseaplane
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If you read the design guidelines themselves you will see that many of the problems start there.
they may very well “tweak” some things, but they have made an ideological decision to make the UI itself the focus (literally) over top of applications and content. And this at the expense of usability, clarity and screen real estate
Thank you for defining and describing my objections. The Liquid Glass UI gets in the way of content.
In the end, Liquid Glass doesn't solve any problem that anyone has, as far as I can tell. What it does, once again, is needlessly load down the CPU/GPU complex with additional heavy-handed and essentially valueless work to do, slowing everything down. Whatever happened to efficient software design?
I have been using Macs since way back in the mid 80s, and IMHO, the brushed aluminium Aqua interface of Tiger was the pinnacle of visual achivement in Mac OS GUI design. It has been all downhill since then.
As I consider the Mac environment of today, we all have large screens, multiple screens, or both. We don't NEED to minimize our controls - we all have oodles of display space. Large, clear controls should triumph, not "clever" UI design. I understand that this is a purely subjective opinion, by the way.
... And as one poster mentioned, lets not even start to dig into the horrible, horrible things Apple has been doing to the System Preferences app's UI. The current System Preferences app UI is a frustrating experience in "where did they hide THAT control?" ... again! The original System Preferences app UI design, which held up well, with minor changes, from the start of Mac OS X at least through Monterey, was clear and easy to navigate. The latest UI for System Preferences is anything but. It is a bloody disaster - subjective opinion again, I know.
I for one will be staying on my older Mac OS X / macOS versions for as long as I can. I don't like the iOS interface at all, and Apple seems to be hell-bent on making the macOS interface look just like it. This is a move in the wrong direction!
I have been using Macs since way back in the mid 80s, and IMHO, the brushed aluminium Aqua interface of Tiger was the pinnacle of visual achivement in Mac OS GUI design. It has been all downhill since then.
As I consider the Mac environment of today, we all have large screens, multiple screens, or both. We don't NEED to minimize our controls - we all have oodles of display space. Large, clear controls should triumph, not "clever" UI design. I understand that this is a purely subjective opinion, by the way.
... And as one poster mentioned, lets not even start to dig into the horrible, horrible things Apple has been doing to the System Preferences app's UI. The current System Preferences app UI is a frustrating experience in "where did they hide THAT control?" ... again! The original System Preferences app UI design, which held up well, with minor changes, from the start of Mac OS X at least through Monterey, was clear and easy to navigate. The latest UI for System Preferences is anything but. It is a bloody disaster - subjective opinion again, I know.
I for one will be staying on my older Mac OS X / macOS versions for as long as I can. I don't like the iOS interface at all, and Apple seems to be hell-bent on making the macOS interface look just like it. This is a move in the wrong direction!
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I find myself having to use the search box in Settings for dang near everything, especially on a desktop/laptop Macintosh where things used to be intuitive.
And it's so frustrating that it only expands vertically.
It feels like an iPad app being used on Desktop.
Simply awful.
Liquid Glass is starting to feel like one of those "clever" projects designers do just to impress other designers.
A bit like these stairs. Impressive, yes. Practical, no.
A bit like these stairs. Impressive, yes. Practical, no.
I think I would’ve been fine with liquid glass if everything by wasn’t so white. I don’t mind the clear transparent look.
But I use Siri suggestions for my Home Screen apps. So I don’t have muscle memory since the apps change by the hour or time of day. I rely on the shape & color to know which app to open.
Having everything transparent glass instead of keeping the same color, but just making them glassy (see through).
Like some say: Good idea, bad execution.
I’ve obviously submitted feedback manager ideas to them. Let’s see what happens
But I use Siri suggestions for my Home Screen apps. So I don’t have muscle memory since the apps change by the hour or time of day. I rely on the shape & color to know which app to open.
Having everything transparent glass instead of keeping the same color, but just making them glassy (see through).
Like some say: Good idea, bad execution.
I’ve obviously submitted feedback manager ideas to them. Let’s see what happens
because the 125 people on this thread that don't like it (yet) represents what percentage of macusers worldwide 🤔
let's make a cash bet that tahoe's official release looks very-close to what it is now (you can venmo me) 💰
Thank &)&&$@) @&)&@ that someone has posted an articulate critique of Apple’s UI. Particularly “can I drag a window from here?”
Back in the days of St. Steve, he would boast that he was the North Star and there were no focus groups. I have no idea how St. Tim makes decisions. I do know that the number of strikeouts seem to have gone down with Steve’s passing (Cube anyone?) and the share price has soared. I hope AAPL is on target with LG even if I find it horrid. And truth be told, I still find iOS16 on my 8+ acceptable. (Although the original iOS would rotate like an iPad with device orientation and unless I’m missing something, that’s been lost.)
You're betting the final release will look "very-close" to what we are seeing now..
...and that is supposed to be a good thing?
In practice (at least in Finder), I find that this actually works quite well. The rule seems to be that "if there is blur, interaction is disabled" (meaning you can drag it). I also find that the new blur effect shows more content. I was expecting to find it pointless, but most of the time the end result is more visible content. This wasn't the case with the blurred "material" styles of the past.
I suppose the biggest downside is that it can look more cluttered with toolbar content (and titles) stacked on top of content. But I find that most of the time having perfect readability isn't necessary. For instance in my inbox I can see there are 24 325 messages, but the word "messages" is hard to read due to content underneath. I can improve on this by focusing the window or scrolling. I find this to be similar to interacting with physical objects, that are often partly obscured. I shift the object or focus my gaze to improve clarity.
What are we gaining with all these drawbacks?
And I’m sorry, but I have to totally disagree about merging title bars.
There is no more clear and instantly recognizable way to know where to click and drag than having a distinct and well defined title bar. It’s just good design.
This is a user interface, not some flashy looking concept UI on DeviantArt.
What are we even doin’ here?
I think they’ll improve it. Question is how long will it take. Might have to wait for a lot of feedback to accumulate for them to make any substantial changes.
It will take a lot of improvements, and probably two OS releases. Apple would do well to give two GUI interfaces to users, the current one, which is more agreeable to the world at large, and then Liquid Glass. Let the user decide which they want. As it stands, I will not upgrade to 26, nor buy any device that has 26 on it if I can not eliminate the LG effect. I have no problems with Android, before retirement, my work phone for about 8 years was a Samsung.
I wear glasses so my world is clear, sharp, and in focus.
The iOS version is a step forward toward some skeuomorphism back in the OS, but it seems like the MacOS version is the exact opposite. It's clear that in the case of the app icons, many are less skeuomorphic. That's a real shame.
I've been arguing against "iOSification" of MacOS for years. A lot of the reason for that is the dumbing down of a UI that was once beautiful and full of little details and touches, purely in the name of consistency with a different UI made for smaller screens with less room for detail. The article mentions the text on the Mail envelope – it's a great example. MacOS once had many things like that, and the closer you looked the more you found.
I've been arguing against "iOSification" of MacOS for years. A lot of the reason for that is the dumbing down of a UI that was once beautiful and full of little details and touches, purely in the name of consistency with a different UI made for smaller screens with less room for detail. The article mentions the text on the Mail envelope – it's a great example. MacOS once had many things like that, and the closer you looked the more you found.
I remember well how popular aqua was, and am not surprised Apple creates a similarly flashy new design.
It is a healthy sign that they are brave enough to make such sweeping changes. It is easy to lean towards safe and bland. Just look at the difference between Microsoft PR material and what they ship.
I’m delighted that it reminds the reviewer of his favorite Windows versions!
Next …
But…change for some change? Or change to fix something?
change can mean numerous things. for example: making something different. making something better. making something new. i find it all interesting...
which is why, as i mentioned, i prefer to form my own opinions. never used windows, don't care.
when tahoe drops (and i too hope for and expect some tweaks, fixes, some re-thinking), i will have been enjoying the OS since developer beta 1, while others will finally realize that this is it, adapt, and get comfy. then we'll do it all again next OS.
it's entertaining, at the very least 👍
and if that Steve quote is even true, which I’ve never heard it before, but let’s just assume that it is, it’s not even accurate.
Steve’s original idea to have the Apple menu in the center of the screen was reversed due to, guess what? User feedback.
also under Steve, frequently apples human interface guidelines were just completely ignored, so not much has changed in that department.