OS X List of Mac Metal games

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by jeanlain, May 14, 2017.

  1. EllieFeral macrumors member

    EllieFeral

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    #51
    Not yet, nope! When we know we're close to a build of DXMD that meets our standards, we'll set a release date.

    Thanks jeanlain, I hope you like HITMAN. Only a few days left to wait. :]
     
  2. Demigod Mac macrumors 6502a

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    Apr 25, 2008
    #52
    Does UT use Metal by default or does it need a command line switch?

    Game runs like a dog even on a high end Mac. :<
     
  3. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

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    Dec 9, 2004
    #53
    Unreal Tournament (and everything UE4) has no option for OpenGL, only Metal. It ran fine with a R9 280x when I tried it, but had some visual glitches.

    --Eric
     
  4. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    #54
    As Eric5h5 said, it's now Metal only. Check the settings (unless the settings menu is inaccessible for you, too), as it seems that the game defaults to ridiculously high resolutions.
     
  5. Demigod Mac macrumors 6502a

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    #55
    On 1200p / 100% render scale. The main problem is constant hitching as it loads newly used effects, models and textures. Very bad at the start of a match but it evens out eventually. (Running on a Titan X)

    I notice a similar thing happening in HOTS but it's not nearly as bad, and after about a minute or so the game runs perfectly smooth. Makes me wonder if Metal has an issue with preloading assets...?
     
  6. Eric5h5 macrumors 68020

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    #56
    Could be an nVidia issue...I don't recall seeing that myself. Although I didn't play around with it for long, since it seemed pretty unfinished (as expected for an alpha).

    --Eric
     
  7. JordanNZ macrumors 6502a

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    Auckland, New Zealand
    #57
    This is a Nvidia issue with the web drivers and metal. It's not an issue on AMD and Intel.
    Nvidias drivers need some work when it comes to metal.
     
  8. jeanlain thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #58
    This would be shader compilation occurring mid game. Note that Maxwell- and Pascal-based cards never chipped with Macs. Also, there are at least 2 Metal games that don't support any nVidia card at the moment (Mafia III and Hitman).
     
  9. Aegelward macrumors 6502a

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    #59
    Any idea if Endless Legend or Endless Space 2 will transition to versions of unity that support metal?
     
  10. marksatt macrumors regular

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    Epic UK
    #61
    Correct sir. All three modern APIs (Metal, D3D12 & Vulkan) take the same basic approach to shader compilation and it is *very* different to D3D11 which most games & engines were designed for. D3D11 binds each shader (vertex shader, pixel shader etc.) individually and the driver is responsible for ensuring that these are compiled efficiently at draw-call time. Nvidia's Windows driver is *especially* well optimised for this. Developers therefore didn't have to care about the underlying complexities which for a very long time caused problems for AMD on Windows.

    The new APIs are a bit more like OpenGL and expect you to bind your shaders & some of your render-state into a "pipeline" object and they all expose how slow this operation is, so it takes a lot of engineering work to avoid the stalls caused by creating these at draw-call time.

    This is one of the reasons that Obduction on Mac has a big runtime shader-cache that slowly accumulates and increases application load times - it saves you from the worst hitches in-game.
     
  11. jeanlain thread starter macrumors 65816

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    Mar 14, 2009
    #62
    Ah, there you are Mark! :)
    Regarding shaders compilation, is it possible to ship precompiled shaders with a macOS Metal game, or are there too many GPUs to support?

    And what are your thoughts on Metal 2?
     
  12. marksatt macrumors regular

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    #63
    Not gone far. WWDC was crunch-tastic and I'm still dealing with the fallout.

    No, Metal doesn't have an API to serialise compiled pipelines to ship them precompiled. As the pipelines are GPU specific it would be limited in similar ways to GL's program binary extension and in practice we wouldn't be able to precompile all the different variations for the GPUs that Apple ship.

    The additions to the Metal API and shader language are again good steps forward - though as always I still want more - with Indirect Argument Buffers being the most work to support but also the most valuable.
     
  13. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    Oct 23, 2006
    #64
    By the way, just gave it another spin and the Metal renderer in War Thunder is indeed improving: many of the rendering issues I saw earlier are fixed in the most recent version, but not all (reflections are still messed up, for instance).
     
  14. Ferazel macrumors regular

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    Aug 4, 2010
    #65
    Again, congrats on your work for WWDC was cool to see GPUs and gaming be emphasized.

    I confused though by what you're describing. I thought one of the things that Apple wasn't happy with OpenGL about was that you couldn't pre-compile the shaders using that API and everything had to be compiled at runtime. One of the things that they touted when Metal was released was that you could compile the shaders at build-time. I'm referring to this document:
    https://developer.apple.com/library...rammingGuide/Dev-Technique/Dev-Technique.html
    Does the shader cache that you described for Obduction somehow storing the GPU assembly for the shader or is storing the IR that Apple described?

    Or is the problem you're describing not specifically a shader compilation hit, but a problem with the API switching up the RenderCommandEncoders and leaving the drivers to try to manage the context switching the RenderPipelineDescriptors the problem?
     
  15. marksatt macrumors regular

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    #66
    You can compile shaders to bytecode at build time, but you can't precompile pipelines (shaders + some render state).

    Compiling to AIR first means there is no hitch creating the shader initially unlike GL where the driver has to compile the text into a bytecode internally.

    The Metal pipeline creation cost is similar to the cost of creating a GL program (incl. overhead of the first draw call). Both Vulkan and D3D12 impose the same pipeline creation costs as this is the unavoidable point at which the driver converts from a vendor neutral intermediate into GPU specific machine code.
     
  16. JordanNZ macrumors 6502a

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    #67
  17. marksatt macrumors regular

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    #68
    Ugh. Good catch sir.

    The confusion here is because they are listing the old Mac OpenGL min specs despite being Metal only (Metal's are: IG HD4000, NV 640M, AMD 7950 Mac Edition or better). Something else that needs to be cleared up when I get back from hols...
     
  18. EllieFeral macrumors member

    EllieFeral

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    #69
    Got some news for this thread, folks -- we're working on the macOS version of BioShock Remastered, which will use Metal.
     
  19. PJivan macrumors 6502

    PJivan

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    Aug 19, 2015
    #70
    Can you tell us something about Metal 2? Have you guys tested it? Will Warhammer total war 2 support it or when we can expect to see further improvement with it? It would be nice to have your opinion on this.
     
  20. Janichsan macrumors 65816

    Janichsan

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    Oct 23, 2006
    #71
    Yay. You know which games also would look great on the list of released games using Metal? Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Dirt Rally.
     
  21. ErikGrim macrumors 68040

    ErikGrim

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    #72
    And there was much rejoicing!
     
  22. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    #73
    Kudos to Feral! (as usual) :)
     
  23. EllieFeral macrumors member

    EllieFeral

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    #74
    Feral's games are right on the leading edge of utilising all of Metal’s advanced features. This will continue to be the case for Metal 2 and beyond.
     
  24. MacsRgr8 macrumors 604

    MacsRgr8

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    #75
    Could that also mean that "lesser" hardware will be able to run games better too?
     

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